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Not everyone loves you
*sam*
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I'm just dealing with the exploit whereby you can buy favour with all factions so that they all love you, meaning you can truce your way through all encounters.

My previous suggestion (not implemented) wasn't a good one.

The root problem is that it's possible for all factions to love you, so that's what I'm now changing.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 11:06 am
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Smashing, it does seem an odd thing to happen.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 11:24 am
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*Bigspenner* said:
Smashing, it does seem an odd thing to happen.


Until you look at how ISIS sells its oil in Syria/Iraq.

That said, there is also the issue that there are not enough combat-active Mercs and Civilians, so the best bet is to be friends with the bad guys, and figure at least the Civvie encounters are at gates, so you can take all the cars.
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vet wv ped2

Posted Oct 29, 2015, 1:47 pm Last edited Oct 29, 2015, 1:51 pm by Tallus
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If a town has a bounty on someone, they should see bounty hunters. not just town militia blocking their return. I've always felt this needed fixed, Bounty Hunters should do their jobs.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 2:42 pm Last edited Oct 29, 2015, 2:43 pm by Grimm Sykes
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Agreed - Bounty Hunters should work a bit like slavers, tough encounters but only when you have a bounty on your head

Sam - will this change work so that if you are a member of one faction there will always be factions that dislike because of your membership?

And how will it work if you are a Renegade?

Thanks
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 3:01 pm
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Tallus said:
*Bigspenner* said:
Smashing, it does seem an odd thing to happen.


Until you look at how ISIS sells its oil in Syria/Iraq.



but they dont sell ther oil to the hare krishnas, americans, kurds or me.

was that supposed to illustrate some point?  :rolleyes:

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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:48 pm
*The X Man*
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Grimm Sykes said:
If a town has a bounty on someone, they should see bounty hunters. not just town militia blocking their return. I've always felt this needed fixed, Bounty Hunters should do their jobs.

Good point, this should be looked into further.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:48 pm
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Grimm Sykes said:
If a town has a bounty on someone, they should see bounty hunters. not just town militia blocking their return. I've always felt this needed fixed, Bounty Hunters should do their jobs.


and they should be open for PVP in that town.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:49 pm
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Racing Robbie said:
Agreed - Bounty Hunters should work a bit like slavers, tough encounters but only when you have a bounty on your head

Sam - will this change work so that if you are a member of one faction there will always be factions that dislike because of your membership?

And how will it work if you are a Renegade?

Thanks


All of your "in-game" actions will affect your faction reps regardless of your alignment. You continue to attack traders, Civs and Merchants will start to hate you while muties will start to like you. Change and reverse your targeted attacks, the reps will flow back like a teeter totter.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:55 pm Last edited Oct 29, 2015, 4:59 pm by *The X Man*
*sam*
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Racing Robbie said:
Agreed - Bounty Hunters should work a bit like slavers, tough encounters but only when you have a bounty on your head

Sam - will this change work so that if you are a member of one faction there will always be factions that dislike because of your membership?

And how will it work if you are a Renegade?

Thanks



This change is not specifically related to faction membership at all, it's only related to faction reputations.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 5:11 pm
Tallus
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Do these changes nerf Mind Control as well?

goat starer said:
Tallus said:
*Bigspenner* said:
Smashing, it does seem an odd thing to happen.


Until you look at how ISIS sells its oil in Syria/Iraq.



but they dont sell ther oil to the hare krishnas, americans, kurds or me.

was that supposed to illustrate some point?  :rolleyes:


Well, Syria and Northern Iraq are getting about as close as you can manage to a Darkwind world.  But commerce still begets strange bedfellows.

Actually, sounds like they do sell it to some Kurds, and their rival militias: the trick is that they figure anything downstream that they own will get bombed by precision munitions, but the pumps and wells are bad targets.  Therefore they basically maintain a neutral zone around the area where they sell their crude, and they sell to all comers, whether they like them or not.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6c269c4e-5ace-11e4-b449-00144feab7de.html#axzz3pytQDJt5

And, in turn, the Israelis are buying most of their oil from Northern Iraq's Kurds to ensure they get hard currency....  Interesting question how much of that oil came originally from ISIS controlled fields.

*The X Man* said:


All of your "in-game" actions will affect your faction reps regardless of your alignment. You continue to attack traders, Civs and Merchants will start to hate you while muties will start to like you. Change and reverse your targeted attacks, the reps will flow back like a teeter totter.


But we're talking about a 9-sided teeter totter... Part of the point to rep balancing was that you could slowly increase rep by 'tweeking' things around the circle -- the issue being that, if you were willing to spend the time, you could reliably increase rep across the board with a fairly simple distribution of attacks.  (and you could buy back the Civs and Merchants favor by delivering the goods.)

I have to say, given the ISIS example above, I have a hard time understanding why people are so exercised about this kind of rep balancing -- it seems 'realistic' and not at all unheard of historically..  But who am I to appeal to reality?

 
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 5:58 pm Last edited Oct 29, 2015, 6:32 pm by Tallus
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And yet.. Even if all that rubbish were true they ARE ALL STILL SHOOTING
One another... Which was always the point.... That relationships of convenience do not equate to mythical pirate codes, friendships or honour among thieves.

In the DW world that neutral space is Texan.. Step outside and you will be fair game.

But it is also nonsense and media babble... Equating selling to middle men who then sell on to those places with selling to them directly.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 9:46 pm Last edited Oct 29, 2015, 9:53 pm by goat starer
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Tallus said:


*The X Man* said:


All of your "in-game" actions will affect your faction reps regardless of your alignment. You continue to attack traders, Civs and Merchants will start to hate you while muties will start to like you. Change and reverse your targeted attacks, the reps will flow back like a teeter totter.


But we're talking about a 9-sided teeter totter... Part of the point to rep balancing was that you could slowly increase rep by 'tweeking' things around the circle -- the issue being that, if you were willing to spend the time, you could reliably increase rep across the board with a fairly simple distribution of attacks.  (and you could buy back the Civs and Merchants favor by delivering the goods.)

I have to say, given the ISIS example above, I have a hard time understanding why people are so exercised about this kind of rep balancing -- it seems 'realistic' and not at all unheard of historically..  But who am I to appeal to reality?


Tallus, If someone put a hit on your Gang Leader and killed him, you would be at a point of seeking revenging and annihilating their gang. If that same gang hauled a few packages to another town for you or ambushed a different gang, who you do not like, and raided their shipment.... that is supposed to make you start liking them??? A Big No. You are still gonna want to shoot their gang leader in the head the next time your gangs paths cross.

You need to be held accountable for your in-game actions. If you red out a gang, expect retaliation. If you want safe travel, you should never fire a weapon at anyone so the NPCs know you are not a threat and maybe they let you go by without incident. Good luck on that lasting for more than one travel.

Remember, DW is not Candyland where all the gumdrops like all the sweet tarts and hang out over at the gingerbread man's house. Eventually someone is not going to like you because you helped the jellybeans and you're gonna get poked in the eye with a couple pixie stix.
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Posted Oct 29, 2015, 10:48 pm Last edited Oct 29, 2015, 10:49 pm by *The X Man*
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Per Machiavelli, it's ok to be hated, as long as you're feared.

Which actually gets to one of my issues with the game -- at some point bloody encounters should breed discretion rather than a vengeful death-wish.

And, of course, relatedly, successful pirates (e.g. Blackbeard) tended to be good businessmen and fairly casualty averse.
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Posted Oct 30, 2015, 12:01 am Last edited Oct 30, 2015, 12:02 am by Tallus
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Tallus said:
Per Machiavelli, it's ok to be hated, as long as you're feared.

Which actually gets to one of my issues with the game -- at some point bloody encounters should breed discretion rather than a vengeful death-wish.

And, of course, relatedly, successful pirates (e.g. Blackbeard) tended to be good businessmen and fairly casualty averse.


And for every one of those there should be a rampaging bunch of suicide bombers who really don't care. or a bunch of revolutionaries who will throw themselves at your tanks bare handed...

Whether bloody retribution breeds further attacks or caution depends on the motivations of the enemy... Their ideology and beliefs... What they have to lose etc

You seem to be picking random one off examples to support a rather unclear point without looking at the breadth of human society and conflict.


Oh... And Teach fought to his death in his final battle and showed fairly scant regard for his crew... When cornered he announced he would give no quarte and expected none and then fired a broadside into the two navy sloops that had cornered him.... He marooned several of his crew... Stripped his comrades ships... Attacked well armed merchantmen in his sloops... Continued his piracy after being pardoned. Not very casualty averse.
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Posted Oct 30, 2015, 12:31 am Last edited Oct 30, 2015, 12:49 am by goat starer
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Tallus said:
*Bigspenner* said:
Smashing, it does seem an odd thing to happen.


Until you look at how ISIS sells its oil in Syria/Iraq.

That said, there is also the issue that there are not enough combat-active Mercs and Civilians, so the best bet is to be friends with the bad guys, and figure at least the Civvie encounters are at gates, so you can take all the cars.


This is the mosy idioitic simlificatiin I have ever seen what a load of tripe. even if it had real world validity in that that Iisis has in someway made peace with every faction imaginable which is boollll shooock, that is irellevent to the game world we are discussing and that sam is trying to create. Basically complete boo lokks by someone who has no real job or life is my guess. and infutiture talk aboutbthe game world not yor stupid half baked biews of what a terrorist organisation do without any real idea how u=it really works you halfwit.
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Posted Oct 30, 2015, 1:26 am
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Very... Interesting results from this. Woke up exceedingly late (8:45pm EST or so), heard about it, checked reps, showed Hated by Civs, scorned by raiders/reds, still high on mutant/slaver reps, think was around disliked with merchants. 5-10 minutes later without any in game action whatsoever, I went up to neutral with merchants, disliked by Civs, mutant/slaver rep dropped, reds/raider rep improved.

So I have literally no idea how it's going to shake out now.
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Posted Oct 30, 2015, 1:48 am
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*Bigspenner* said:
Tallus said:
*Bigspenner* said:
Smashing, it does seem an odd thing to happen.


Until you look at how ISIS sells its oil in Syria/Iraq.

That said, there is also the issue that there are not enough combat-active Mercs and Civilians, so the best bet is to be friends with the bad guys, and figure at least the Civvie encounters are at gates, so you can take all the cars.


This is the mosy idioitic simlificatiin I have ever seen what a load of tripe. even if it had real world validity in that that Iisis has in someway made peace with every faction imaginable which is boollll shooock, that is irellevent to the game world we are discussing and that sam is trying to create. Basically complete boo lokks by someone who has no real job or life is my guess. and infutiture talk aboutbthe game world not yor stupid half baked biews of what a terrorist organisation do without any real idea how u=it really works you halfwit.

<3.  Delighted.

The point is not that ISIS is well liked -- hardly - but rather that its enemies seem to be in a position where the have to buy its oil, whether they like it or not. 

The more pertinent point to this discussion may be that the liked/hated probably shouldn't be the main variable determining whether there is a truce.

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Posted Oct 30, 2015, 2:20 am Last edited Oct 30, 2015, 2:35 am by Tallus
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*Bigspenner* said:
Tallus said:
*Bigspenner* said:
Smashing, it does seem an odd thing to happen.


Until you look at how ISIS sells its oil in Syria/Iraq.

That said, there is also the issue that there are not enough combat-active Mercs and Civilians, so the best bet is to be friends with the bad guys, and figure at least the Civvie encounters are at gates, so you can take all the cars.


This is the mosy idioitic simlificatiin I have ever seen what a load of tripe. even if it had real world validity in that that Iisis has in someway made peace with every faction imaginable which is boollll shooock, that is irellevent to the game world we are discussing and that sam is trying to create. Basically complete boo lokks by someone who has no real job or life is my guess. and infutiture talk aboutbthe game world not yor stupid half baked biews of what a terrorist organisation do without any real idea how u=it really works you halfwit.


  Name calling how official sounding  i ask you as an equal retract your personal attacks on fellow players Mr *Spenner*  thank you and have a good day 
  *Boon*
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Posted Oct 30, 2015, 6:13 am
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Tallus said:
*Bigspenner* said:
Tallus said:
*Bigspenner* said:
Smashing, it does seem an odd thing to happen.


Until you look at how ISIS sells its oil in Syria/Iraq.

That said, there is also the issue that there are not enough combat-active Mercs and Civilians, so the best bet is to be friends with the bad guys, and figure at least the Civvie encounters are at gates, so you can take all the cars.


This is the mosy idioitic simlificatiin I have ever seen what a load of tripe. even if it had real world validity in that that Iisis has in someway made peace with every faction imaginable which is boollll shooock, that is irellevent to the game world we are discussing and that sam is trying to create. Basically complete boo lokks by someone who has no real job or life is my guess. and infutiture talk aboutbthe game world not yor stupid half baked biews of what a terrorist organisation do without any real idea how u=it really works you halfwit.

<3.  Delighted.

The point is not that ISIS is well liked -- hardly - but rather that its enemies seem to be in a position where the have to buy its oil, whether they like it or not. 

The more pertinent point to this discussion may be that the liked/hated probably shouldn't be the main variable determining whether there is a truce.



But... As already pointed out.. Even if this were true (which it isn't) all those people still shoot isis at the first opportunity. So they hardly have good faction relations... And in the context of the whole point of this discussion they would, given the opportunity, kill them and steal from them rather than pay them and all have a nice cup of tea.

Halfwit sounds a little generous.
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Posted Oct 30, 2015, 8:02 am Last edited Oct 30, 2015, 8:03 am by goat starer
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