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Into the Ruins?, Are we going into the ruins?

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 musashi_san said: *StCrispin* said: Asteroids took me 30 minutes, as a 12 year old. hard to gauge how impressive 30 minutes is for something that didn't actually work as intended. it's no small thing, certainly, to even get to the point where you would have the problem you describe. can i ask what platform/language/library? just curious... Platform was the Timex-Sinclair 2000 (with 16k memory enhancement add on) bringing it to a total of 18k Language was Basic Problem was that this was before the concept of Sprites.  So the "Large Asteroid" was actually 4 independently moving single pixel "Small Asteroids" moving in sync with eachother.  (Pixels were quite large back then.  I think the screen size was something like 144 pixels on its longest side (X axis) or something around that size.  Been so long I cant remember for sure.  That was 33 years ago. The issue occurred when the asteroid left the left side of the screen and reappeared on the other side (as they did in the original).  they held together until then. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 21, 2014, 6:30 am Last edited Dec 21, 2014, 6:31 am by *StCrispin*

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 *StCrispin* said: musashi_san said: *StCrispin* said: Asteroids took me 30 minutes, as a 12 year old. hard to gauge how impressive 30 minutes is for something that didn't actually work as intended. it's no small thing, certainly, to even get to the point where you would have the problem you describe. can i ask what platform/language/library? just curious... Platform was the Timex-Sinclair 2000 (with 16k memory enhancement add on) bringing it to a total of 18k Language was Basic Problem was that this was before the concept of Sprites.  So the "Large Asteroid" was actually 4 independently moving single pixel "Small Asteroids" moving in sync with eachother.  (Pixels were quite large back then.  I think the screen size was something like 144 pixels on its longest side (X axis) or something around that size.  Been so long I cant remember for sure.  That was 33 years ago. The issue occurred when the asteroid left the left side of the screen and reappeared on the other side (as they did in the original).  they held together until then. Sprites wasn't a concept, it was hardware. First used in the commodore PET made in 1977, the timex sinclair was released july of 1982. Sprites were hardly new in 82. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Dec 21, 2014, 4:47 pm

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 *StCrispin* said: musashi_san said: *StCrispin* said: Asteroids took me 30 minutes, as a 12 year old. hard to gauge how impressive 30 minutes is for something that didn't actually work as intended. it's no small thing, certainly, to even get to the point where you would have the problem you describe. can i ask what platform/language/library? just curious... Platform was the Timex-Sinclair 2000 (with 16k memory enhancement add on) bringing it to a total of 18k Language was Basic Problem was that this was before the concept of Sprites.  So the "Large Asteroid" was actually 4 independently moving single pixel "Small Asteroids" moving in sync with eachother.  (Pixels were quite large back then.  I think the screen size was something like 144 pixels on its longest side (X axis) or something around that size.  Been so long I cant remember for sure.  That was 33 years ago. The issue occurred when the asteroid left the left side of the screen and reappeared on the other side (as they did in the original).  they held together until then. Sprites wasn't a concept, it was hardware. First used in the commodore PET made in 1977, the timex sinclair was released july of 1982. Sprites were hardly new in 82. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Dec 21, 2014, 4:52 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Me and my dad made a cracking Dambusters game on the ZX81. I really dont think that it in any way qualifies me to comment on programming. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Dec 21, 2014, 5:57 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 And yet you comment anyway. Grimm, thanks for the info on Sprites. I did not have anything which used them until my Commodore C64c. I don't know what Crackling Dambusters are, but it sounds like a reverse artillery (bomb dropping?) type game. We were required to program that type of thing as well as the Artillery clone in School for math class as part of our Trig assignment (though the moving "bomber" also added an element of Physics class to the equasion) I don't know a lot about modern languages. My computer game development business closed in 1993 when all of my fellow co-owners moved to different parts of the country and I entered military service. The business was (for us) a total waste of time since everything we released, came out "a day late and a dollar short" as the major companies at the time beat us to market with pretty much every concept we were working on. I'm sure you have already hear my "I was programming Civilization until Sid Meyer released his" story. His was MUCH better but mine was better than the one released by Bill Stealy (but his was pretty, mine was ASKII) The only positive thing I took from that experience was seeing some of my methods of approaching memory constraints finding their way into triple A titles from major corporations. Those methods are now outdated and laughable but at the time they allowed people to circumvent the "you can't do that because technology won't allow it" barrier. I comment here with suggestions, trying to be a good friend to Krak. Unlike the people who simply shoot his idea down, I support his desire and want to find a way that allows it to be a possibility. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 21, 2014, 10:57 pm Last edited Dec 21, 2014, 11:17 pm by *StCrispin*

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *StCrispin* said: And yet you comment anyway. Nope.. I don't comment... I make absolutely no comment on programming. I will make a comment on you commenting on programming... It's presumptive and rude. Attempting to extrapolate someone else's work from a bit of basic you failed to do 30 years ago is just weird. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Dec 21, 2014, 11:04 pm Last edited Dec 21, 2014, 11:34 pm by goat starer

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 I like how that's all you took from my post. Had you read the prior posts carefully you'd have noted that the reference to the asteroids program was in regards to the use of "tick based" time progression in gaming. A hybrid between Turn-based and Real-time. I suggested that idea to Sam when he was considering a "fast turn" or real time arena idea a year or more ago. He was receptive to the idea (idk if he called it "interesting" or "good" or "fun" or what... And I don't feel like forum searching) I may be wrong but I find it unlikely that modern programming exists to make programming something MORE time consuming or harder than it used to be. Thus my assumptions on time. Perhaps I simply should have said "Hey Sam, how many programmers working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, no sick days, no comp time, no holidays, no PTO, VTO, or any other time off, (the American way) would it take to produce the first working Alpha or maybe early Beta, in 1 years time or less?" But I figure someone would have mistook that for a elitist/sexist/political/racist/speciesism joke like "how many {insert race, species, religion, politic, or gender here} does it take to {insert taks here... Such as change a lightbulb}" ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 21, 2014, 11:36 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Oops forgot one other part of the question... "Given that they have already been provided with the Pseudocode" ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 21, 2014, 11:43 pm

*Bigspenner* Brassicas Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 546 Joined: Sep 17, 2008 Sounds very timeist to me, what have you got against months or decades or weeks or hours. Its this kind of depraved filth that makes my clock stop! ......................... vet wv combatL1 deathrceL1 paintladder slay2013 pvp4 gwextrav pvp3 marshal pvp2 pvp1 pvp5 paintball e2g Posted Dec 21, 2014, 11:55 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *StCrispin* said: I like how that's all you took from my post. Had you read the prior posts carefully you'd have noted that the reference to the asteroids program was in regards to the use of "tick based" time progression in gaming.  A hybrid between Turn-based and Real-time.  I suggested that idea to Sam when he was considering a "fast turn" or real time arena idea a year or more ago.  He was receptive to the idea (idk if he called it "interesting" or "good" or "fun" or what... And I don't feel like forum searching) I may be wrong but I find it unlikely that modern programming exists to make programming something MORE time consuming or harder than it used to be.  Thus my assumptions on time. Perhaps I simply should have said "Hey Sam, how many programmers working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, no sick days, no comp time, no holidays, no PTO, VTO, or any other time off, (the American way) would it take to produce the first working Alpha or maybe early Beta, in 1 years time or less?" But I figure someone would have mistook that for a elitist/sexist/political/racist/speciesism joke like "how many {insert race, species, religion, politic, or gender here} does it take to {insert taks here... Such as change a lightbulb}" You think modern programming might equate to you typing 10 PRINT "CRISPY IS ACE" 20 GOTO 10 RUN That explains some of this nonsense. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Dec 22, 2014, 12:42 am Last edited Dec 22, 2014, 12:42 am by goat starer

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Is that some cultural referance I don't get? Because calling someone "Ace" in America is usually meant as a pejorative remark at best, or a racial slur at worst. Also best to stay with the general topic of ITR and the suggestions about programming it (as well as a car tactical combat modual) or funding it, as a project independent of DW. Otherwise we could be accused of off topic discussion. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 22, 2014, 2:53 am Last edited Dec 22, 2014, 2:56 am by *StCrispin*

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 758 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Quote: Is that some cultural referance I don't get? Because calling someone "Ace" in America is usually meant as a pejorative remark at best, or a racial slur at worst. , lolwut. How many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? [This post has been deleted by a marshal.] ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Dec 22, 2014, 7:01 am

Alocalypse Advanced Race Labs Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: May 6, 2007 Quote: Oops forgot one other part of the question... "Given that they have already been provided with the Pseudocode" How long would the pseudocode take to write? *StCrispin* said: I may be wrong but I find it unlikely that modern programming exists to make programming something MORE time consuming or harder than it used to be.  Thus my assumptions on time. Modern programming tools make hard/impossible tasks easy/possible, but in the end you're still using the same basic building blocks. You also need to be aware of what tricks to use to save time and often that knowledge comes painfully. You can usually find an engine/library/code to do 90% of what you wan't but the last 10% to get it working just like you want it will be a hacky mess unless you're willing to compromise on features. Standards for what an acceptable level of game is are also much higher. Quote: Perhaps I simply should have said "Hey Sam, how many programmers working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, no sick days, no comp time, no holidays, no PTO, VTO, or any other time off, (the American way) would it take to produce the first working Alpha or maybe early Beta, in 1 years time or less?" Keep in mind that programmer productivity varies a lot and you need someone with the appropriate and very varied skills for (web) back/front end programming, server administration, at least basic 3D modelling, 3D graphics programming, (car) physics, networking etc. You're probably not going to find anyone who has all those skills and have to compromise/accept some things will be slower due to learning on the job. Also estimating how long software projects take to complete is notoriously difficult, especially for something as ambiguous yet complex as this. It's even harder to estimate how long someone else would take to do it unless you already know them very well. And you should use realistic/relaxed working hours because overworked people are less productive and having a high turnover because of bs working conditions would set the project back more than the extra hours would really help. Personally if I'm overworked it seems like I write more bugs than actual working code. Also this thread has kinda inspired me to try programming a car game myself. It turns out you can get surprisingly far in little time with Unity car tutorials/sample code if you know what you're doing. (As opposed to rigging stuff up wrong and having it go all Fallout 3 on you, which may have happened to me at several different times with different approaches) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109997577/estoniantrucksimulator.jpg ......................... vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont Posted Dec 22, 2014, 7:17 am

*Bigspenner* Brassicas Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 546 Joined: Sep 17, 2008 Groovelle said: Quote: Is that some cultural referance I don't get? Because calling someone "Ace" in America is usually meant as a pejorative remark at best, or a racial slur at worst. , lolwut. How many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? [This post has been deleted by a marshal.] I don't know how many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? I bet its a few plus StCrinklyfin to delete everything he dosent like based on some odd logic ......................... vet wv combatL1 deathrceL1 paintladder slay2013 pvp4 gwextrav pvp3 marshal pvp2 pvp1 pvp5 paintball e2g Posted Dec 22, 2014, 10:26 am

Bill Butcher Cutting The Butchers of Boozetown Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 15, 2014 Do you ever wonder if Sam is really a sociology professor using DW to study the interrelationship patterns of the competitive aging nerd population? I think this thread speaks volumes. ......................... vet wv Posted Dec 22, 2014, 12:01 pm Last edited Dec 22, 2014, 12:02 pm by Bill Butcher Cutting

*Bigspenner* Brassicas Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 546 Joined: Sep 17, 2008 Bill Butcher Cutting said: Do you ever wonder if Sam is really a sociology professor using DW to study the interrelationship patterns of the competitive aging nerd population? I think this thread speaks volumes. LOL To even suggest such a thing shows extreme nerdishness Can you imagine just how nerdy one would have to be to study "nerd interrelationships" Anyway I cant stay and chat I am very busy writing a spreadsheet to catalogue and analyse all of my dice rolls from the 1980s so I can write statistics based report on dice probability which I am sure everyone will want to read. ......................... vet wv combatL1 deathrceL1 paintladder slay2013 pvp4 gwextrav pvp3 marshal pvp2 pvp1 pvp5 paintball e2g Posted Dec 22, 2014, 12:35 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *Bigspenner* said: Groovelle said: Quote: Is that some cultural referance I don't get? Because calling someone "Ace" in America is usually meant as a pejorative remark at best, or a racial slur at worst. , lolwut. How many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? [This post has been deleted by a marshal.] I don't know how many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? I bet its a few plus StCrinklyfin to delete everything he dosent like based on some odd logic He does have some very strange ideas...  He has wound himself into such a racist fervour now that he can use any term as a racist slur... I say marshmallow... his little fascist brain hears "kill the pinks!" ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Dec 22, 2014, 1:15 pm Last edited Dec 22, 2014, 4:11 pm by goat starer

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 *Bigspenner* said: Groovelle said: Quote: Is that some cultural referance I don't get? Because calling someone "Ace" in America is usually meant as a pejorative remark at best, or a racial slur at worst. , lolwut. How many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? [This post has been deleted by a marshal.] I don't know how many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? I bet its a few plus StAwsome to delete everything he dosent like based on some odd logic I didn't delete anything here.  If you look at the "last edited by" line you will see no one edited the post at all(or hadn't when I last looked at it) and that the allegedly deleted section was part of Groovelle's Joke. (Deleted due to blasphemy, particularly offensive at Christmas) ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 22, 2014, 9:22 pm Last edited Dec 22, 2014, 11:52 pm by *Bigspenner*

*Bigspenner* Brassicas Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 546 Joined: Sep 17, 2008 I never said you did. I meant no offense I was merely carrying on the joke. Maybe we should get back on topic. What was it again? Did I mention I really like Darkwind ......................... vet wv combatL1 deathrceL1 paintladder slay2013 pvp4 gwextrav pvp3 marshal pvp2 pvp1 pvp5 paintball e2g Posted Dec 22, 2014, 11:54 pm

*Boonwolf* Finger 3 Darkwind Guru Morgan Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 1,139 Joined: Mar 7, 2012 goat starer said: *Bigspenner* said: Groovelle said: Quote: Is that some cultural referance I don't get? Because calling someone "Ace" in America is usually meant as a pejorative remark at best, or a racial slur at worst. , lolwut. How many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? [This post has been deleted by a marshal.] I don't know how many forum posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? I bet its a few plus StCrinklyfin to delete everything he dosent like based on some odd logic He does have some very strange ideas...  He has wound himself into such a racist fervour now that he can use any term as a racist slur... I say marshmallow... his little fascist brain hears "kill the pinks!" Marshmallow!!  You calling us Marshmallows now I may be white but I'm not fat and soft.  ......................... vet wv paintball paintladder ped1 race1 semiprocombat zom marshal pvp20,5,0 Posted Dec 23, 2014, 4:32 am

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