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2014: my latest thoughts for DW2

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 As you probably know, I have wanted to do some kind of DW2 for some time. Several core ideas have buzzed around for the last 2 or 3 years but none have progressed very far. This is my latest thinking on it all... comments/opinions welcome. The engine I have chosen: Unity. I have been tinkering around with it for some time and it definitely seems like the right one. Excellent networking, very good graphics capabilities, and an awesome asset store which is exactly what a small development team needs. The platforms I have chosen: PC and Mac. Forget smartphones and their appstores.. the days of the appstore gold-rush are gone, and there's increasingly a lack of opportunity for small teams to have any impact without massive marketing. There is also a fundamental difference in demographic: many smartphone players want only casual games (or indeed, don't even care if the app they're using is a game.. they are happy to have any app that passes the time).. whereas PC/Mac gamers who use Steam etc. are real 'core' gamers who search for games, share and discuss them, and care about details.. it is much more feasible to achieve a niche audience here. There are fundamental decisions to be made in terms of the core game. It could be a turn-based or real-time; it could be singleplayer or multiplayer; it could be a sandbox-style game similar to DW1; it could be a story-driven RPG; it could be a game focusing on league play and the deathsports side of things. Any of these could be awesome, and having spoken to quite a few of you about this I know that you'll all have different opinions on the best approach to go for. So here's my current thoughts on it...... - Make it a real-time multiplayer game, packaged initially as a stand-alone product containing a story-driven single-player campaign and a multiplayer (LAN-play) PvE campaign. But keep it as hardcore as possible rather than turning it into an arcade game: so, that includes armour per-side, characters who die rather than re-spawn, cars that get wrecked rather than re-spawn. Set in Evan, of course. - a scenario editor similar to DW:Tactical should be included (and a mechanism to share scenarios online). Player-generated content is a very powerful thing. - As well as campaigns, it could include a LAN-play league system for arena combats/deathraces with friends and NPCs - Internet-play, public servers and online leagues could follow as an extra add-on. This would probably have to use a subscription or in-app-purchase payment model. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 10:33 am Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 10:34 am by *sam*

*Wolfsbane* Arbiters Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,038 Joined: Oct 9, 2009 Unity as the engine is the correct choice. If you want a hand with anything once you get going then let me know, I've been using it for years. It also means you can make a build people can play in a web browser, which is great for getting people to actually try your demo (download and install is a much bigger barrier these days). I'm not going to comment too much on the real time aspect as I'm sure there will be plenty of other people eager to do that, but I'll just say that if I can't have the darkwind 2 I really want, an new Interstate 76 is a very nice consolation prize ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 cont Posted Oct 9, 2014, 10:47 am Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 10:48 am by *Wolfsbane*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 *Wolfsbane* said: new Interstate 76 Yeah, that's a good analogy. And of course I know the players here love turn-based.. obviously.. as do I.  It's a critical decision, and I know that turn-based is a large part of what makes DW unique. But also, a very large number of players are turned off totally by turn-based. The parameters are different, but the potential for success may be higher using real-time, and it can *still* be an awesome game. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 10:56 am Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 10:57 am by *sam*

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 *sam* said: *Wolfsbane* said: new Interstate 76 Yeah, that's a good analogy. And of course I know the players here love turn-based.. obviously.. as do I.  It's a critical decision, and I know that turn-based is a large part of what makes DW unique. But also, a very large number of players are turned off totally by turn-based. The parameters are different, but the potential for success may be higher using real-time, and it can *still* be an awesome game. Yup, I want little to do with real time, but I'm a minority in the gaming world, and you're more likely to get broader appeal with real time.  It's a shame.  Worrying about precise movements on the key board is not my thing any more. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 11:13 am

Racing Robbie The White Ashes Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: Jul 3, 2012 My initial thoughts/feelings Not the biggest fame of RTS by I would keep playing if some the elements that makes DW unique could be kept there. - The ability to design cars, - the freedom to be want you want in the game, - the open ended nature of the game and that you can keep reinventing your gang and do different things - permanent death, equipment destroyed etc Keeping the player added content would be great as well – this is one side that I love and as you may of noticed I do like to get involved with as well. ......................... vet wv northernsummer e2g raceL1 deathrceL1 slay2013 pvp3 ww pvp1 semiprocombat0,1,0 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 11:19 am Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 11:20 am by *Racing Robbie*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 *Racing Robbie* said: Not the biggest fame of RTS by I would keep playing if some the elements that makes DW unique could be kept there. I wouldn't classify this idea as an RTS. To me, an RTS means synchronising lots of moving pieces, and this means that there can't be any proper car physics, crashing etc. What I'm talking about is real-time but with accurate physics. So you'd only control one car, as part of a team which included your friends and/or NPCs. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 11:30 am

Racing Robbie The White Ashes Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: Jul 3, 2012 OK sorry misunderstood - I can see that and sounds better to me, so we are perhaps talking the combat being more tactical than strategy here By this I mean you are handling just your part in the combat, rather than the overall squad ......................... vet wv northernsummer e2g raceL1 deathrceL1 slay2013 pvp3 ww pvp1 semiprocombat0,1,0 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 11:56 am

*SmokeyKilla* The Wolf Spiders Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 224 Joined: Nov 1, 2013 great ideas.........except real time .......only one car?, lose a lot of the strategy,( im assuming it will be similar to twisted metal) or the hundreds of other car shoot em ups.  Grand theft auto? Sam you already said it Quote: I know that turn-based is a large part of what makes DW unique otherwise I believe it will just be a car shoot em up with a mix of rpg elements thrown in, i believe you could make the town events real time, and scouts/travels turnbased and appeal to everyone........sorta musclecar online/darkwind hybrid  ......................... vet wv marshal paintball semiprocombat pvp5 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 12:22 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 i like it... I like only one car as well. I think the muscle car scouts in somerset provide a great model for this and coordination of tactics with other players is one of the joys of the game. Playing one car will encourage co-op play. I really don't think you can split game mechanics as smokey suggests... that would make for a chaotic gaming experience... but i guess you could still run DW1 in parallel. Agree with Rob re customisation. cars that are a basic chassis frame and you build up with looted or traded parts. I would like to see this done in much more detail with better or worse transmissions, engines, steering, suspension etc being available (customisable for chrome equiv?). Would like to see more ability to change the appearance of your vehicle... armour plates that add to the model, different gun mounts... make the building of a unique car a central part of the game. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 12:35 pm Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 12:40 pm by goat starer

PvtParty Paceys Raiders Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 709 Joined: Aug 5, 2012 If it's one car per person, are we talking top-down view, or "through the windshield" ? Some way to integrate the turn-based gang mechanic of DW1 with this 1-car real-time would be cool. Maybe switch into real-time for some events, but keep others as turn-based. So, where it's a single car race, for example, you play it real-time, but if players want to take out a squad into the wilderness, they could have the option of setting up a real-time squad, and co-op'ing with other gamers, or use several of their own cars in turn-based mode (ie, as now). ......................... vet wv ss2fl67 pvp5 paintball pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 1:18 pm

Bill Butcher Cutting The Butchers of Boozetown Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 15, 2014 Here's a few things I would like to see in DW2: - the choice between RTS and TB decided by the players at combat launch (if given the choice, I will always pick TB ). Can this be achieved through an adjustable in-game slow motion/pause mechanism? - the ability to field multiple cars - a single client for character/gang/vehicle/squad/town/combat management with the ability to manage everything but combat from any browser. - no lag between squad management and combat - ability to manage components directly without going through a vehicle (can this be done now and I'm just missing it?) - enhanced ped environment (characters from several gangs going on a 'dungeon' crawl; think a toned down old-school wasteland or multiplayer fallout environment) - expanded world - balanced specs - no respawn whatsoever - no pay to win I'm sure there's more but this is what came to mind at the moment. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 9, 2014, 1:48 pm Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 1:49 pm by Bill Butcher Cutting

Hangfire Super Turtle Squad 7 Pedestrian Renegade Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 27, 2012 I could get behind a top-down version of I76 with a complicated (in a good way) back end. I would not like this as much as a DW2 that is essentially DW1 with a new engine and a new coat of paint (I love me some turn based), but I can understand why the game would need to be made to fit the market. Some things I /think/ I would like to see: 1- Keep and expand on all the customization aspects, especially the skins. 2- Shrink the gangs down to smaller numbers, but with more customization for each ganger. Perhaps in addition to stats, gangers would have a skill tree (or trees) that would replace the special system in DW1. 3- Variable sized LOF cones for different weapons to add more variety. This would also allow for turrets and pintel mounted guns. 4- More variety in mission types. 5- More variety in permanent damage. I would love to see weapons and cars develop quirks due to damage, especially if the game is still set in the post-apocalypse setting. Something more than just gun has a % chance to jam or car takes damage easier. I want things like... engine sputters between 40-50 making acceleration slower in that range. Gun overheats if fired for more than 4-5 rounds in a row. Things like that to give cars and weapons more personality. 6- Deformable terrain would be cool. 7- More things for peds to do... Like moving boarding combat and the ability to use hand guns while in vehicles. I disagree with the concept of trying to do both turn based and real time in a single game. Do one or the other, not both. The closest I think you would want to get to that would be realtime pauseable, but I am not sure how well that would work within a multiplayer game. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 9, 2014, 2:15 pm Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 2:16 pm by Hangfire

Tallus Fatalis Foedi Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 175 Joined: Aug 30, 2014 My 6 year old son doesn't like the turn based: he gets annoyed by all the 'stops.' Conversely, I love it, in great part because it allows for multicar and convoy combat. To be frank, I'm violently uninterested in a real-time sim: Carmaggedon fits that bill perfectly well. I remember enjoying I-76 for a while, but ended up annoyed by the FPS aspect and the A/I's quirks. In DW I think timed turns are a brilliant addition. Running replays in real time would be cool, and would also allow for Youtube crowd-promotions. For my part, I think more can be done with the things that make Darkwind unique -- vis. the A/I, warts and all, is a good deal better than most. A better U/I -- including multimedia cueing, better graphics, and a better developed world.... Specifically, I'd localize Evan -- one of the neat things about the Fallout games was the creepy familiarity of the setting, a real -- but twisted -- geographical location would be much more compelling. e.g. what would the I-80/580 interchange (right before the bay bridge to San Francisco) look like post apocalypse? And how can you not localize a Car Wars game to California? Oh... and just to make life rougher for our gangers, and to harken back to Car Wars: 'Gibs:' flying tyres, debris from cars that get blasted, more road hazards. ......................... vet wv ped2 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 2:26 pm Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 2:41 pm by Tallus

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 Ideas sound good Sam. I'm glad to hear you chose Unity. I hope darkwind 2 will be turn based, like darkwind but better graphics, better physics, and easier for new players to understand. But most of all I hope it remains turn based. There's already real time car combat games out there. The game NFS Rivals features low levels of combat, then there's 2 Gas Guzzlers games and the new Sega Mad Max game coming next year. Those are just some of the current ones. A large part of the appeal of darkwind is using a group of cars. The only way that could be accomplished with real time would be if you assign a behavior type to a car and let the AI take over, and if the AI is like the one we have now that will be discouraging for the player. What I would love to see in any car game is for it to use GPS maps, and replace houses with ruins based on the GPS data. This way maps wouldn't be made, real maps could be filtered to add ruins to replace houses on the fly. areas of high traffic density could have wrecks of cars sitting in the middle of the road. All map data could be generated on the fly like this and wouldn't require you to actually create maps. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 2:52 pm

Tallus Fatalis Foedi Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 175 Joined: Aug 30, 2014 Grimm Sykes said: Ideas sound good Sam. I'm glad to hear you chose Unity. I hope darkwind 2 will be turn based, like darkwind but better graphics, better physics, and easier for new players to understand. But most of all I hope it remains turn based. There's already real time car combat games out there. The game NFS Rivals features low levels of combat, then there's 2 Gas Guzzlers games and the new Sega Mad Max game coming next year. Those are just some of the current ones. A large part of the appeal of darkwind is using a group of cars. The only way that could be accomplished with real time would be if you assign a behavior type to a car and let the AI take over, and if the AI is like the one we have now that will be discouraging for the player. What I would love to see in any car game is for it to use GPS maps, and replace houses with ruins based on the GPS data. This way maps wouldn't be made, real maps could be filtered to add ruins to replace houses on the fly. areas of high traffic density could have wrecks of cars sitting in the middle of the road. All map data could be generated on the fly like this and wouldn't require you to actually create maps. The idea of GPS-based maps is cool... I guess the problem is trying figure out how to generate the A/I scripts for them.  ......................... vet wv ped2 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 3:08 pm

ZomBPir8Ninja Zombified Piratey Ninjas Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 151 Joined: Oct 1, 2009 What about the Baldur's Gate/Dragon Age style of real time with pausing? A single car race or scout? Real time. Multiple car convoy? They would use AI, but you could hit space to pause and give direction. You can flip between the cars at will and take manual control over a specific one. If you want to focus fire, for example, hit space to pause, set every car's target, go back to the one you want control and unpause. Best of both worlds. Icing on the cake would also be player customized AI. Write your own scripts to handle melee, sniper, escape situations. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 ped2 gwped paintladder Posted Oct 9, 2014, 3:30 pm Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 3:33 pm by ZomBPir8Ninja

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,215 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 This sounds like it should be a lot like a WoW version of Darkwind. Realtime, persistent with perma death or at least perma injury. Perma death is the one rare concept that completely changes the way someone will play the game. Meaning choices will have a huge impact on how your game and character unfolds. Player interaction with a deeper storyline that pulls you in to your addiction. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 4:04 pm

Bill Butcher Cutting The Butchers of Boozetown Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 15, 2014 Bill Butcher Cutting said: Here's a few things I would like to see in DW2: - the choice between RTS and TB decided by the players at combat launch (if given the choice, I will always pick TB ). Can this be achieved through an adjustable in-game slow motion/pause mechanism? - the ability to field multiple cars - a single client for character/gang/vehicle/squad/town/combat management with the ability to manage everything but combat from any browser. - no lag between squad management and combat - ability to manage components directly without going through a vehicle (can this be done now and I'm just missing it?) - enhanced ped environment (characters from several gangs going on a 'dungeon' crawl; think a toned down old-school wasteland or multiplayer fallout environment) - expanded world - balanced specs - no respawn whatsoever - no pay to win I'm sure there's more but this is what came to mind at the moment. Here's more for the buffet of ideas: - ability to reload completely from the loot screen - have vehicle inventories be accurate in loot screen - be able to view cargo space of each vehicle in combat client (know which vehicle have space for passengers during a loot car shuffle) - in solo scouts, a single transaction to load all loot to the player's temporary area during the loot phase - button in the loot screen to automatically load all of most valuable loot, in cars you have predesignated, according to the sell value of the town scouted from. The player can then review what's left. Saves time. - save which gun, in a particular vehicle, a ganger normally uses - less 100% cars and components. Equipment shouldn't be brand new but reused and repaired until unusable. Anything 'manufactured' should basically be rescavenged parts brought together at less than 100%. Anything at 100% should be a treasure in itself. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 9, 2014, 5:12 pm Last edited Oct 9, 2014, 5:16 pm by Bill Butcher Cutting

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Definitively no real time. Turn based game was the call to me. More customization? obviously, and anything. Size limit on cars? I say yes but not only one at a time. Two is better and no more than 4 at once for a single player. We need to encourage player coop. I would vote for a different world, sticking to the real one it may helps people playing together, at least on the geography point of view. A single developper, even with some help can't spend time on rebuilding existing cities. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Oct 9, 2014, 7:20 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,670 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 So many ideas here. I like turn based. Real time would be a turn off to me. My once lightning reflexes now sit backstage to most 11 years olds, and I have no interest in these types of games. I usually only scout one car, but like to take a few on occasion. I like co-op play, but I do not want to be forced to do it or even encouraged to. When I feel like being social, I am. But sometimes on a rainy day, I just like to scout by myself and chat occasionally thru the lobby. All I got for now. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Oct 9, 2014, 8:20 pm

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