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Penalize parking, encourage evasion

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 I'd change the to-hit penalties massively in favor of moving vehicles vs stationary ones. Nearly stationary cars should have a very difficult time hitting moving ones - even if their target is headed straight at them, or away, the speed difference should count. Vehicles moving under 15 mph should suffer the wrath of the dogfighting gods. ......................... vet wv Posted Feb 10, 2014, 12:32 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Lets implement that into 1 ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 3:24 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 Do you even understand how vectors and speed work? Stationary shooters can achieve more accurate aim. Try running and shooting a gun at the same time. This is about as silly as holding a gun sideways and expecting the same ballistics path. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 9:22 am Last edited Feb 10, 2014, 9:24 am by Grimm Sykes

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Grimm Sykes said: Do you even understand how vectors and speed work? Stationary shooters can achieve more accurate aim. Try running and shooting a gun at the same time. This is about as silly as holding a gun sideways and expecting the same ballistics path. once again you miss the point completely. Simon is looking to make the game more dynamic and interesting... not to make it more realistic. try to keep up ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 10:47 am

*Jagged Monkey* Bazooka Joes Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 594 Joined: Jul 13, 2010 goat starer said: Grimm Sykes said: Do you even understand how vectors and speed work? Stationary shooters can achieve more accurate aim. Try running and shooting a gun at the same time. This is about as silly as holding a gun sideways and expecting the same ballistics path. once again you miss the point completely. Simon is looking to make the game more dynamic and interesting... not to make it more realistic. try to keep up It is a lot easier to have a steady aim if you hold still.  So why not have a bonus to hitting stationary vehicles?  You're a much better target if you don't move.  While on the move it is much more difficult to lay down effective fire.  There are things to consider like bumps on the road, inertia, and how much you should lead your target.  Modern war machines use stable platforms and computers to quickly and accurately calculate the firecontrol solution.  I don't think we have that stuff in DW. I think the game already take these things into consideration.  There's a to hit penalty for drivers in motion.  Defensive Driver seems to work better when the car is moving.  Ballistics are much more accurate if you hold still.  If you don't like the defensive line tactic then maybe consider a muscle scout.  Hell you can even move that defensive line into the fray!  That would counter the recoil have high caliber weapons (bonus).  There are a lot of different ways to play Dark Wind.  This is what makes it so damned addictive.  I don't think we should change it in this regard.              ......................... vet wv combatL1 semiprocombat marshal elmsautumn northernsummer0,1,0 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 3:13 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Jagged Monkey said: It is a lot easier to have a steady aim if you hold still.  So why not have a bonus to hitting stationary vehicles?  You're a much better target if you don't move.      there already is one and im not saying we should change it... just that following what someone is saying is necessary to conduct sensible debate.. if Grimm can't do that he should keep q ui6et+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++:Pxz{ that was dippi walking over the keyboard lol ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 4:09 pm Last edited Feb 10, 2014, 7:16 pm by goat starer

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 no, I got it, the point was to change a fundamental part of the game in some silly and senseless way. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 4:33 pm

Bolt Thrower Quantum Symphony Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: Sep 12, 2013 Not sure how easy this would be to fix, but I think one of the big problems is there are only two types of AI behavior. Engage and dogfight or run. Not sure how hard the coding would be, but if some of the AI's flanked lines and some set up a line of their own and advanced slowly (slower), might be helpful. Or, you know, the rocket boosted suicide tanker. ......................... vet wv northernsummer1,91,1 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 4:45 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Grimm Sykes said: no, I got it, the point was to change a fundamental part of the game in some silly and senseless way. no you didnt.. as your reply shows.. you seem completely unaware that the rest of us can read ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 5:04 pm

*Snipe* Renshai Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 581 Joined: Aug 31, 2009 Looks like Bast has been here.......... ......................... vet wv gateautumn sssc santa1 raceL1 deathrceL1 marshal pvp2 zom combatL1 pvp52,6,2 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 5:22 pm

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 goat starer said: Grimm Sykes said: no, I got it, the point was to change a fundamental part of the game in some silly and senseless way. no you didnt.. as your reply shows.. you seem completely unaware that the rest of us can read Considering how many, especially yourself, go off on only part of whats said and seem to miss most of what I have said, I really have to wonder about your ability to read. I never said it was like a gun being held sideways, I said it was as silly as. Which, if you could read, you would know. DW 2 will be playing with dw1 players, so any rules change like this would have to be made to both games. The AI behavior isnt attack or flee. the runners run because they have rear weapons and try to keep targets in arc. They only "flee" when stress gets too high.  Most people who have scouted with me have noticed the AI turn and run at some point. Not for long though, eventually they get brave and engage again. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 6:14 pm Last edited Feb 10, 2014, 6:17 pm by Grimm Sykes

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Grimm Sykes said: I never said it was like a gun being held sideways, I said it was as silly as. Which, if you could read, you would know. erm? nobody said you said that dude... you are imagining stuff again. its getting really worrying. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 7:15 pm

*Jagged Monkey* Bazooka Joes Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 594 Joined: Jul 13, 2010 Grimm Sykes said: This is about as silly as holding a gun sideways and expecting the same ballistics path. Um ......................... vet wv combatL1 semiprocombat marshal elmsautumn northernsummer0,1,0 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 7:20 pm

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 Jagged Monkey said: Um http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66883-why-does-holding-a-pistol-sideways-like-in-the-movies-not-really-work/ Quote: Suffice to say that holding a gun sideways is a billboard that says, "I'm an idiot!" to anyone who has even a small amount of weapons training.  ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 10, 2014, 8:33 pm Last edited Feb 10, 2014, 8:34 pm by Grimm Sykes

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,215 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 simonmaxhill said: I'd change the to-hit penalties massively in favor of moving vehicles vs stationary ones. I get the concept, but I would lean differently towards a different way to implement your idea. Eliminate the penalty aspect. What should really be rewarded is for game play that is more difficult and dangerous. Muscle scouts should get a better bonus and/or increase to their gunnery skills. Driving around at 40 to 70 mph and shooting a weapon is hard and deserves better rewards. Line fighting is easy. It doesn't take a lot of skill to put on the Ebrake and shoot, so skill training should be at a minimum. Anytime you go over your starting speed (30 mph), you would should get an increase in skill training. Now, that does mean after 50 turns of line fighting you start to drive and get 2 shots in over 30 mph before the scout ends that you should get a bonus. The bonus should apply only if more than half of the turns in your encounter were at + 30mph. Implementing ways to reward players who choose to play with higher difficulty and higher risk should always be made available. That being said, Flame Thrower Ram scouts should probably get a triple bonus! ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 12:37 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 goat starer said: Grimm Sykes said: Do you even understand how vectors and speed work? Stationary shooters can achieve more accurate aim. Try running and shooting a gun at the same time. This is about as silly as holding a gun sideways and expecting the same ballistics path. once again you miss the point completely. Simon is looking to make the game more dynamic and interesting... not to make it more realistic. try to keep up So we want it to be LESS realistic and more unbelievable? Personally I prefer believability ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 12:55 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 goat starer said: Grimm Sykes said: no, I got it, the point was to change a fundamental part of the game in some silly and senseless way. no you didnt.. as your reply shows.. you seem completely unaware that the rest of us can read I hate to say this...  But Grimm's reply made more sense than Goat's If anything, a stationary vehicle should TAKE more damage from multi-projectile weapons like LMG, MG, MMG, HMG due to more steel on target rather than the few hits they catch while the cone of fire is on them.  OR as an alternative, multi-projectile weapons should do reduced damage to moving cars.  However, single projectile weapons would be unchanged in thier effect.  This is realisticly plausable. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 1:03 am Last edited Feb 11, 2014, 1:18 am by StCrispin

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 *The X Man* said: Anytime you go over your starting speed (30 mph), you would should get an increase in skill training. Now, that does mean after 50 turns of line fighting you start to drive and get 2 shots in over 30 mph before the scout ends that you should get a bonus. The bonus should apply only if more than half of the turns in your encounter were at + 30mph. gee that would make it very easy and rewarding to use rear guns and just kite them along. Sure get this implimented so i can get better gains with mortars, 3 or 4 points a scout isnt enough for SS.  ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 1:21 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 StCrispin said: multi-projectile weapons should do reduced damage to moving cars.  However, single projectile weapons would be unchanged in thier effect.  This is realisticly plausable. One problem with this crisp... armor is a vague idea as far as applying damage. as all the shots aren't going to hit the exact same spot. one could hit the rear quarter panel, one could hit the door, and if it had weird hit boxes like the BPU, one could hit the back window. I had always thought of it as a relative value and assumed that's why metal fatigue didn't weigh in by the second. In the long term scheme, that's what perma damage amounts to. OOPS Crisp, I misread that... but there's still a problem.. 5 human targets spaced in a 20 foot wide area, and your standing there with a machine gun at 20 feet away. you can empty the whole clip and odds are you will only hit 1 target. automatic fire is anything but accurate. It was designed so unskilled soldiers could throw a lot of lead and maybe get lucky. A skilled marksman could use single shot, and take down all 5 targets  with 1 shot each in under 7 seconds. There's actually a video of this exact scenario. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 1:36 am Last edited Feb 11, 2014, 1:48 am by Grimm Sykes

Bolt Thrower Quantum Symphony Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: Sep 12, 2013 That is sort of what I mean.  Except for cargo vehicles, they all attack the same way.  Sam wrote a paper on teaching the AI to drive better based on player pathing actions.  It would be nice if he was able to teach the AI to fight better based on player weapons use and strategies.  For the most part, all the AI vehicles follow the same attack pattern: charge! Grimm Sykes said: The AI behavior isnt attack or flee. the runners run because they have rear weapons and try to keep targets in arc. They only "flee" when stress gets too high.  Most people who have scouted with me have noticed the AI turn and run at some point. Not for long though, eventually they get brave and engage again. ......................... vet wv northernsummer1,91,1 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 1:43 am

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