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Braindump Draft 1, my thoughts so far, please discuss
*viKKing*
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I got the point. I'm not in god's secret, and don't know Sam's goal more than you. ;)
Anyway, while "advertising" it seems necessary to me to propose screenshots of the upcoming so called "sequel". It must be presented as a whole.

What do you think of "single player extension to DW"? while I'm not even sure it is only a SP game? Sam?
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Posted May 24, 2012, 6:33 pm Last edited May 24, 2012, 6:33 pm by viKKing
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ViKKing said:
What do you think of "single player extension to DW"?


Worried about the MMO, but excited for the new project. Haven't figured out which one overrides the other yet.
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Posted May 24, 2012, 6:46 pm
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I was under the impression this would be single player and DW will be the online multi player game.

Maybe later he will add a new multi player component to the new game that will take over from here using the new engine. Could be the expansion or maybe a standalone?

Posted May 24, 2012, 6:57 pm
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As you have to be based in America to start a kickstarter (though Xenonauts got around it) Sam may have to think of some other crowdfunding source. Trouble with the other one was that peoples money is taken from their account when they first bid rather than when it reaches the target. Thats something I'd be wary about to be honest.

Posted May 24, 2012, 7:00 pm
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I think all of this points back to the most important elements being Story, Art, and Mechanics. For this phase I think you need to identify and nail down whatever YOU think the 3 most important things are to generate and legitimize a substantial increase in funding over the original DW.

You did it by yourself (cough) before, so why do you need money to make what should be an easier and simpler game (in most people's minds single player is infinitely easier than MMO) so what are you spending their investment on, huh?

Artists, writers, and developers to accelerate the timetable and ensure quality, that's what.

Now, if you want to demo how it's going to be, make sure it impacts like this: 
http://www.hawkengame.com/

and not like this:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/videos/gameID/694/videoId/2437

The demo and "tour" in MWO is terrible and destroys the brand perception before anyone has a chance to say, "Hey, it's got a sweet upgrade system!" where Hawken just left me panting and squirming and wanting more. A major component of that was the music. Heck they could have done that with a simple Ken Burns style panning over still art and I would have been nearly as excited. It doesn't have to be drop dead 3D, it just has to be beautiful.

Yes, sex sells, get sexy.That's not just a C-cup recommendation; music, art, a dramatic minimalist website, these all add up to sexy. Remember, it's what you hint at that turns people on, not what you show.

viKKing is right. Don't put this in Evan, put it on the Isle of Mann and make it smaller, easier to understand and completely explore, and filled with awesome cars...and motorcycles. mmmmoooootooooorcyclesssssssss....

But again, what's the point? Grow the player? Mod the car? Win the circuit? Start at the end.
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Posted May 24, 2012, 7:54 pm
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Wodin said:
Sam I notice you mentioned about a girl and sex sales. I will say this recently whenever a female character in a game has been shown in skimpy clothes etc etc there had been a backlash. Your also appealing to maybe the older gamer on the whole, that sort of Anime\Manga or even many fantasy art pics show women as sex and titillation/Personally I'd try a different approach, a more adult approach than alot of games do these days, I saw a FPS with a supposed mercenary who was female wearing hardly anything whilst in a shoot out..where really I imagine her either one in clothes she could have blended in or have protection on like bullet proof vest etc. I suppose if she is supposed to be a dolly bird in an advert for a DeathRace would be fine but considering the injuries the drivers add up I wouldn't have a sex kitten who is a driver.


Yeah
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Posted May 24, 2012, 9:03 pm
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BWGunner said:
Now, if you want to demo how it's going to be, make sure it impacts like this: 
http://www.hawkengame.com/

and not like this:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/videos/gameID/694/videoId/2437

Yes, sex sells, get sexy.That's not just a C-cup recommendation; music, art, a dramatic minimalist website, these all add up to sexy. Remember, it's what you hint at that turns people on, not what you show.


I agree with this generally, though i think showing them the legacy system and that the old one is in the process of a remake will show people what the old baseline was, and i think that select shots of the vehicles, gangs, and vehicle management would be interesting depth to pique interest,
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Posted May 24, 2012, 9:31 pm
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How about a sex kitten with one leg?

Seriously you can put women in the game without them being objects. Think Pink. Definitely girl, definitely striking/sexy, probably more than you can handle. Put on a jewelled eye-patch and you are done.

That I think is a good image for a woman in the game. In touch with her femininity, but quite capable of ripping you a new one.
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Posted May 24, 2012, 11:53 pm
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Iron Wraith said:
How about a sex kitten with one leg?

Seriously you can put women in the game without them being objects.  Think Pink.  Definitely girl, definitely striking/sexy, probably more than you can handle.  Put on a jewelled eye-patch and you are done.

That I think is a good image for a woman in the game. In touch with her femininity, but quite capable of ripping you a new one.


This. Easier said than done, but the character can be either male or female. Sex-kitten advertising would turn away female players, who are becoming more and more a part of the gaming community.
But here's the thing - I don't think guys notice when an advertisement is using NON-sex-kitten poses. At least we can experiment and see what happens...
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Posted May 25, 2012, 12:53 am
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Juris said:
but calling it a sequel to DW - we'll all know it's a sequel without being called a sequel (Wasn't Fallout supposed to be a sequel to Wasteland?) ;)


No, Fallout was not a sequel to Wasteland.

Wasteland has a sequel, but it was so poorly done that they quickly tried to distance themselves from the fact and Hid it under a non-wateland sounding name and removed the title "Wasteland" from it.

Fallout was "in the spirit of" and drew alot of it's supporting background and naming conventions from it but was not a sequel or related to it in any way other than a hinting of it being the "same world" type of thing.

Wikipedia said:
Wasteland was followed in 1990 by a less-successful intended sequel, Fountain of Dreams, set in post-war Florida. Electronic Arts got cold feet at the last moment, and did not advertise it as a sequel to Wasteland; in fact, none of the creative cast from Wasteland worked on Fountain of Dreams.

Interplay themselves worked on Meantime, which was based on the Wasteland game engine and the universe but was not a continuation of the story. Coding of Meantime was nearly finished and a beta version was produced, but full production of the game was canceled when the 8-bit computer game market went into decline.

Interplay has described its 1997 game Fallout as the spiritual successor to Wasteland. According to IGN, "Interplay's inability to prise the Wasteland brand name from EA's gnarled fingers actually lead to it creating Fallout in the first place."[4] There are also Wasteland homage elements in Fallout 2 as well.[3][4] All games in the Fallout series are set in the world described by its characters as "Wasteland" (for example, the "Midwest Wasteland" in Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel or the "Capital Wasteland" in Fallout 3). A major part of the Fallout universe is the military organization Brotherhood of Steel, whose origins are similar to the Desert Rangers and the Guardians of the Old Order of Wasteland, and a group called the Desert Rangers actually appears in Fallout: New Vegas.


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Posted May 25, 2012, 6:27 am Last edited May 25, 2012, 6:33 am by StCrispin
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@Sam that's a good start. You have more or less touched on the aspects that need to be available. Organization should be the next step. As a KS member who's backed around 20 projects, and who is currently managing a list of KS projects with good potential on the GOG forums, let me share my thoughts on the importance of organization of information on consumer psychology.

When I look at projects, the first thing that comes to my mind is, 'why should I care?' That first impression when the reader opens the page must immediately give him/her a subliminal idea of what to expect. As you mentioned, pictures and concept art are good. Use these to your advantage. Put up pictures of roadkill, collisions, etc. When people post about these KS projects without any elaboration, I usually click on them, then quickly scroll through for any images, before reading the descriptions, and finally watching the videos.

Having an image that's thematically relevant to the impression you want to convey to the reader, overlaying the video before you click on the Play button, is also a very helpful tool. See: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066438441/haunts-the-manse-macabre

Notice that, upon visiting that page, the first image I'm greeted by is the video overlay, and when I scroll down, I immediately get a very nice screenshot. Unless you're Brian Fargo or Chris Avellone, putting up an honest and modest but still appealing screenshot is the first step. Everything else comes next.

Another way to get people to take us seriously is to have funding momentum. I mean, I'll be honest, no matter how nice a project looks, if it's on its 2nd day and I only see $40.00 pledged, chances are, I'm not going to give a toss. So, when the KS project is up, we should all pledge simultaneously. This project should at least hit $10000 by its first day, to show people that this is something to be taken seriously. Of course there have been projects of dubious nature raking in tons of money, but that's not the point; thing is, a project that's got some good funding momentum will usually be more attractive.

Also, it's good to link to Darkwind, but Sam, I don't think you should spend more than 2 paragraphs on it. To me, I find reliability in developers who have stable and appraised track records, but I will feel turned off by people who keep telling me about how great their previous games were, especially if the gameplay will be different from the predecessors. It's why I didn't back Shadowrun Returns - because there was never a TB Shadowrun video game before. Wasteland 2 was therefore more 'trustworthy' in that regard.

So, again, tl;dr version on what a potential backer might do when he clicks on the link:

1) Initial impressions: checks out top few pictures and images to get a rough idea of the project first. The reader must get into the spirit of, 'Oh this looks interesting'

2) Visitor reads on, likes the premise and the concepts and ideas of the game that's to be made.

3) Scrolls down, looking for more screenshots, there are none, but he likes the concept art, and the elaboration on gameplay and track record reassures him.

4) Watches video. A good video conveys reliability.
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Posted May 26, 2012, 3:40 pm Last edited May 26, 2012, 3:53 pm by Karz Master
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Interesting. One thing to consider, should there be a mode in the singleplayer that lets players turn off permadeath for certain/all their characters? Could you capture more people willing to throw down if that's an option or do you think it would dilute the game experience? I could see someone wanting to create themselves and their friends in the game without having to recreate them when they die or suffer from having them be killed. Or will there simply be a way to revert a battle if it goes south? Save feature maybe?

That aside, I think the sexiness from the Darkwind females should come from the toughness/willingness to get their hands dirty. It's the difference between Evony ads and exploring sexuality in hostile environments.

Take, for example, the best picture of a female soldier I've ever seen:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dkX99NaiefI/ShsZFQx7kdI/AAAAAAAABlY/PmlRxiDr57o/s400/28.jpg

She's good looking, but there's something about the pose, the angle, the uniform, the hat that just makes it appealing.

So, like a Michelle Rodriguez-type character(Fast and Furious, Battle: Los Angeles, S.W.A.T.) more than an Evony ad.

I remember seeing a thread on one of the gaming forums about a picture on the Wasteland Kickstarter. They were commenting on how inXile had a tasteful woman in the picture, how it was appreciated.

So, maybe a character based on one of the models you have now with an eye-patch, smudges from oil on her face, ripped button down shirt with body armour under it. She'd be holding an AR-15-like rifle, maybe have a pegleg, and have the grim facial expression of a soldier who's seen combat. Something that actually says something about the game.
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Posted May 31, 2012, 10:19 am
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Groovelle said:

Take, for example, the best picture of a female soldier I've ever seen:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dkX99NaiefI/ShsZFQx7kdI/AAAAAAAABlY/PmlRxiDr57o/s400/28.jpg

:p

Israelian defence forces...
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Posted May 31, 2012, 11:40 am
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@Groovelle: yep, that's the sort of 'sexy' I had in mind (as you'll see from the Tank Girl reference and image link in my original post). 2000AD sexy: cute but tough as hell, not cute and ridiculously scantily clad.
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Posted May 31, 2012, 2:07 pm
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It was nice for SJG to give a shout out in his kickstarter for another project that paid homage to his work http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/ogre-designers-edition/posts/237459?ref=email&show_token=99fe3ac79c58131e

Steve is sort of in a class all by himself. He may have less territorial than I thought
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Posted May 31, 2012, 2:18 pm Last edited May 31, 2012, 2:18 pm by Ender Card
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One more thing i can think of. Each kickstarter gets a blub if you're browsing the avialable projects. So for instance for xenonauts only this shows for the blurb.

"A blend of turn-based ground combat and strategic command, Xenonauts puts you in charge of defending the world from alien "


I would make sure the first sentence is very powerfully reflective of what you are doing. As this is what people browsing projects will see.

Something like "Dark-wind is a post-apocalyptic open world/sandbox game where you manage a gang, customize and salvage vehicles armed to the teeth (think Car Wars on steroids), and explore a violent world of political intrigue!" or some such...

I'm inclined to suggest adding something about turn based and rpg elements to grab those wasteland fanatics.
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Posted Jun 5, 2012, 4:38 pm Last edited Jun 5, 2012, 4:53 pm by Ender Card
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Speaking specifically to this point

"Run thru the core features of DW and talk about what will be different/better in the new version. Ideas here would be appreciated "

I think focusing on how the game will move you through the depth of the game with a tuturial, to ease players into the depth of the game.

That it will have a open world setting with a single player story that the player can tackle at their own pace. Immerse yourself in the story, or just explore the world and come back to the story as you choose.

That the game's broad depth is designed to fit individual play style and interest. Players can dig deep and customize and manage their areas of interest, allow the game to automate areas players are not interested in managing. The choice, or the choice not to choose :)
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Posted Jun 5, 2012, 5:07 pm Last edited Jun 5, 2012, 5:09 pm by Ender Card
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Ender Card said:
One more thing i can think of. Each kickstarter gets a blub if you're browsing the avialable projects. So for instance for xenonauts only this shows for the blurb.

"A blend of turn-based ground combat and strategic command, Xenonauts puts you in charge of defending the world from alien "


I would make sure the first sentence is very powerfully reflective of what you are doing. As this is what people browsing projects will see.

Something like "Dark-wind is a post-apocalyptic open world/sandbox game where you manage a gang, customize and salvage vehicles armed to the teeth (think Car Wars on steroids), and explore a violent world of political intrigue!" or some such...

I'm inclined to suggest adding something about turn based and rpg elements to grab those wasteland fanatics.


This! I can't stress how quickly I gloss over projects that don't have an interesting blurb. A good, descriptive blurb conveys confidence and sells the product. Whenever I see a potentially good game with a lousy blurb e.g. "John's Mansion is going to be an epic fantasy game!" I have the urge to smack the developer with a glove.

Vagueness must be done away with; be specific!
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Posted Jun 6, 2012, 1:39 pm Last edited Jun 6, 2012, 1:40 pm by Karz Master
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Hey Sam,

Anything you need help with or input on to finalize moving forward? I see a few other overseas projects have moevd over from indego to Kickstater, I'm guessing thet're starting to offer some guidelines on how to do that by now, but willing to do footwork if needed :)

David
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Posted Jun 7, 2012, 8:34 pm
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Sam -
My thoughts and questions -

It looks like KS or fail.

At some point ya gotta be driving a lorry with a ram, smashing into stuff!

There has to be a FT in the game at some point, whether driving one or fightin one!

Will this new game have an ending? Can you win? Or will there be only so much you can do in the storyline, and after you do this, you can still hang out and DR etc until something new is added to the game?
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Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:06 am
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