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Licensing a new engine

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 IMHO best for Sam would be to cut efforts on trying to implement stuff already existing and try to reach an agreement with a company offering games with some of physics needed in DW. Battlefront Combat Missions series are from my side very interesting to dig in : Turn Based and Real Time options, Internet games (2 players), hot seats, etc. Engine is available for Windows and Mac computers. Based upon military stuff it already has a lot of projectiles and damages system integrated as well as building damages, armor, morale (from which DW system as been setup on my suggestion ), fog of war (depending of chosen level of difficulty, morale system as well). Combat Missions serie games are delivered with terrain and scenarios editors, meaning anyone can integrate its own scenarios. Though the terrain editor is far from getting as easy to use than Torque's. I'm certain Sam could try to reach an agreement with them even if it requires DW2 to be distributed through Battlefront store, which is in the end, not a bad thing as he would benefit from their advertising. The most challenging task would certainly be to integrate a campaign management system which is currently not existing. PS: sorry for mistakes or syntax problems, I'm not using english a lot at the moment. I'm quite rusted. Edit: just figured out today Combad Mission is available for iPad as well! ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Apr 29, 2012, 9:24 am Last edited Apr 29, 2012, 9:36 am by viKKing

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Not promoting CM:SF although I love it since early days of CMBN. Combat AI is integrated, modding can already be done for testing and prototyping, mostly on sounds, textures etc. Not sure about objects though it can certainly be done. There are numerous resources available on battlefront website. I gave a quick look at terrain and scenario editor and it is not that much difficult, just getting used to it. Prototyping a post apoc. terrain wouldn't be very long, base CM:SF already includes pick-ups with rear mounted machine guns. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Apr 30, 2012, 6:21 am

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 What about physics? Do the CM games have them? ......................... vet wv zom Posted Apr 30, 2012, 6:58 am

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 what about system requirements, i downloaded CM Battle for Normandy DEMO for mac, and it runs crapy on my high-end 2 y/o mac laptop, (almost melted my video card after following their instructions, got weird screen artifacts after force quiting the app), but maybe i screwed something up.. ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Apr 30, 2012, 7:43 am Last edited Apr 30, 2012, 7:44 am by *Tinker*

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Karz Master said: What about physics? Do the CM games have them? Yes they do have  a lot of ballistic physics (armor penetration, ricochets and so). I will perform tests while modding it with current DW textures and posts screenshot. About configuration, CM:Normandy certainly requires a better computer than CM:SF. I play the last one a two years old Asus laptop and it runs quite one with balanced settings. My 6 years old iMac is certainly a bit outdated for anything else than DW. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Apr 30, 2012, 7:55 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I'm strongly leaning towards Shiva (www.stonetrip.com) at the moment; I have been using this game engine for about 1.5 years now and I'm quite efficient with it at this stage. It's not open source (unlike Torque) unfortunately, but that brings both benefits and drawbacks. I have already prototyped the concept of "on/off" car physics and it's working fine (although getting a 'ghost' working may be hard). I'll be able to re-use the DW vehicle models, and some of the buildings/walls/etc. but none of the terrains or maps. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 30, 2012, 9:42 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Don't reuse the models imo. Better off getting it done properly if you're gonna do it; get some real post apocalypse stuff done. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Apr 30, 2012, 9:54 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Combat Mission:Beyond Overlord was a great wargame and the terrain editor was easy to work with. But i don think that engine would be suitable for DW. Might be wrong though since I havent played it since CMBO. and CMBO wont work on newer computers. (little trivia here... one of the guys I beta tested that SSI tank game Panzer Commander with, had a hand in the armor penetration modeling of CMBO. Fionne Kelly of Ireland. very nice fellow.) As for DW car models, some are quite nice IMO. The one gripe I have is that there are so many muscles. You look at the streets IRL and you dont see that many. I would find the suspension of disbelief easier if it was more closely a mirror of actual variety. or even a mirror of the historic production quanity. I doubt that even 1/3rd of all cars made are Cameros and such. But in DW you see 60% to 75% of those types. Yes, speed/power is life but that should only skew the rates slightly. But on the other hand, its just a game. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Apr 30, 2012, 11:00 am

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Serephe said: Don't reuse the models imo. Better off getting it done properly if you're gonna do it; get some real post apocalypse stuff done. Yeah I second this. ......................... vet wv zom Posted May 1, 2012, 2:24 am

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 StCrispin said: Combat Mission:Beyond Overlord was a great wargame and the terrain editor was easy to work with.  But i don think that engine would be suitable for DW.  Might be wrong though since I havent played it since CMBO.  and CMBO wont work on newer computers. I was talking about the new engines used in CM:SF and CM:Nornamdy. But never mind. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted May 1, 2012, 6:20 am

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 Karz Master said: Serephe said: Don't reuse the models imo. Better off getting it done properly if you're gonna do it; get some real post apocalypse stuff done. Yeah I second this. I like the recognizable models, with we had a bunch more.  I'm not really into the post apocolypse stuff a-la "Thunder Dome", perhaps a mix is in order? ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted May 1, 2012, 9:54 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 JS said: Karz Master said: Serephe said: Don't reuse the models imo. Better off getting it done properly if you're gonna do it; get some real post apocalypse stuff done. Yeah I second this. I like the recognizable models, with we had a bunch more.  I'm not really into the post apocolypse stuff a-la "Thunder Dome", perhaps a mix is in order? Yeah, personally I think the existing car models, and *some* of the other models, are good already. They're perfect polycount for 'slightly zoomed back' viewpoint, and mostly have good textures at this stage. My concept of them looking like regular cars with rusty metal plates attached hasn't changed. I don't like futuristic-looking designs. The alternative is to spend $10,000 on getting a new bunch made, and for what purpose? -- realistically, 3D models are either designed uniquely for a game, which costs a lot, or else they're bought in from sites such as turbosquid. I took the latter approach in DW and would aim to do so as much as possible in the future too. -- re-texturing existing models however is relatively cheap, and this could certainly be done ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 1, 2012, 10:45 am

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 *sam* said: -- realistically, 3D models are either designed uniquely for a game, which costs a lot, or else they're bought in from sites such as turbosquid. I took the latter approach in DW and would aim to do so as much as possible in the future too. The tricky thing about this is that you'll have to convince people what you'll be using $20K for, and you MUST specify that you've acquired 3D models from a 3rd party source. If my experience on forums is anything to go by, people don't take too kindly to projects using immediately obvious 3rd party resources, even if they're not free. Alternatively, if you reach a stretch goal of, say, $30K, then you can consider using that money for new 3D models. ......................... vet wv zom Posted May 1, 2012, 11:40 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 You don't think paying for software development time/effort/tools, plus original 2D artwork/GUIs (and some 3D) is enough? -- it seems a bit silly making original models just for the sake of it, if you get me.. Let's say my indiegogo goal was $50k. That's still only a fraction of what my own development effort cost would be. However, it would convince and motivate me to work hard at a project that I otherwise might be skeptical as to whether there was enough interest in.. kinda like pre-orders ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 1, 2012, 11:55 am Last edited May 1, 2012, 12:12 pm by *sam*

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 *sam* said: You don't think paying for software development time/effort/tools, plus original 2D artwork/GUIs (and some 3D) is enough? -- it seems a bit silly making original models just for the sake of it, if you get me.. Let's say my indiegogo goal was $50k. That's still only a fraction of what my own development effort cost would be. I don't know, I'm not a developer. I'd supposed that $20K was what you needed, but looks like I'm wrong. Btw you should also specify that you're paying out of your own pockets. That helps in the marketing process. ......................... vet wv zom Posted May 1, 2012, 12:12 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Here's something funny: I have just noticed my new habit of using two dashes for an appended idea: -- like this -- and that this is because this indicates a comment in Lua code, which I have been using a lot ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 1, 2012, 12:19 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Would you consider improving existing models by adding external mountpoints to add stuff making them looking less conventionnal cars?i.e. turrets (who said turrets? ), or mounted weapons on roof, rear mounted weapons on tripod in pickups, fuel drums sidemounted on the top (extra fuel), external armor (steel plates, etc.)... This is in fact what post apoc. cars look like, normal cars with extra stuff. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted May 1, 2012, 12:28 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 vikk: yes, definitely. And new ped models of course. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 1, 2012, 12:30 pm

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 What sam, you dont like our action men™? ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted May 1, 2012, 12:36 pm Last edited May 1, 2012, 12:36 pm by FireFly

Ender Card Enders Rangers Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Jan 10, 2008 I'm really getting excited! Hearing Sam talk about this is making me think there is a actual chance this could happen! I think thinking about some stretch goals, specifically in game content would help. Orge kickstarter balloned when SJ set the stretch goal of having a PC game version as a stretch goal. Finding a way to reach out to old car wars fans and start looking for what they would most like to see would surely help build excitement in the extended community/target audience! Maybe set up a dedicated site. Talk about how DW offline will improve over its predecessor could widen the draw. Then actively seek inputs from the community and take the easy/popular ideas you feel that would fit. Stretch goals like an editor, fully voiced over story, and new models could be fun, if they are feasible. Not a designer, so not sure how difficult those could get to impliment... ......................... vet Posted May 1, 2012, 2:12 pm Last edited May 1, 2012, 2:13 pm by Ender Card

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