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Penalize parking, encourage evasion

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 Bolt Thrower said: That is sort of what I mean.  Except for cargo vehicles, they all attack the same way.  Sam wrote a paper on teaching the AI to drive better based on player pathing actions.  It would be nice if he was able to teach the AI to fight better based on player weapons use and strategies.  For the most part, all the AI vehicles follow the same attack pattern: charge! I've actually found it easier to win since the pheromone pathing, because now it's easier to manipulate them. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 1:51 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,215 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Grimm Sykes said: gee that would make it very easy and rewarding to use rear guns and just kite them along. Sure get this implemented so i can get better gains with mortars, 3 or 4 points a scout isn't enough for SS.  Well, there are 2 variables to consider. Rear guns are not as accurate as front guns and ballistic weapons are less accurate in a moving vehicle. The point I was making is giving better bonuses to players who play at a "harder" level. Mortar tossing at opponents 200+ meters away is a easy low risk tactic. And easy no risk play gets no bonuses. Just remember, I am only tossing out ideas here.... not mortars ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 1:51 am

Bolt Thrower Quantum Symphony Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: Sep 12, 2013 Oh.    Maybe that is why they keep falling in the pool on the Oil Slick map. Grimm Sykes said: Bolt Thrower said: That is sort of what I mean.  Except for cargo vehicles, they all attack the same way.  Sam wrote a paper on teaching the AI to drive better based on player pathing actions.  It would be nice if he was able to teach the AI to fight better based on player weapons use and strategies.  For the most part, all the AI vehicles follow the same attack pattern: charge! I've actually found it easier to win since the pheromone pathing, because now it's easier to manipulate them.   ......................... vet wv northernsummer1,91,1 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 1:54 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 *The X Man* said: Grimm Sykes said: gee that would make it very easy and rewarding to use rear guns and just kite them along. Sure get this implemented so i can get better gains with mortars, 3 or 4 points a scout isn't enough for SS.  Well, there are 2 variables to consider. Rear guns are not as accurate as front guns and ballistic weapons are less accurate in a moving vehicle. The point I was making is giving better bonuses to players who play at a "harder" level. Mortar tossing at opponents 200+ meters away is a easy low risk tactic. And easy no risk play gets no bonuses. Just remember, I am only tossing out ideas here.... not mortars fine, rear HMG's same story ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 2:08 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 Bolt Thrower said: Oh.    Maybe that is why they keep falling in the pool on the Oil Slick map. Grimm Sykes said: Bolt Thrower said: That is sort of what I mean.  Except for cargo vehicles, they all attack the same way.  Sam wrote a paper on teaching the AI to drive better based on player pathing actions.  It would be nice if he was able to teach the AI to fight better based on player weapons use and strategies.  For the most part, all the AI vehicles follow the same attack pattern: charge! I've actually found it easier to win since the pheromone pathing, because now it's easier to manipulate them.   Actually getting them to fall in any sort of depression used to be much easier, just keep driving around it in circles and they would try to shortcut through it. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 2:10 am Last edited Feb 11, 2014, 2:11 am by Grimm Sykes

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 This conversation started off really well, I miss the days when there were serious talks about game mechanics. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 9:04 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 I tried ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 9:31 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 really? when? ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 12:59 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 StCrispin said: goat starer said: Grimm Sykes said: Do you even understand how vectors and speed work? Stationary shooters can achieve more accurate aim. Try running and shooting a gun at the same time. This is about as silly as holding a gun sideways and expecting the same ballistics path. once again you miss the point completely. Simon is looking to make the game more dynamic and interesting... not to make it more realistic. try to keep up So we want it to be LESS realistic and more unbelievable? Personally I prefer believability it takes a very strange view to prioritise realism over game play.... in a game. especially where the AI is constrained to behave in an unrealistic way when you play 'realistically' with 'believable' physics... one bit of believability simply creates an unbelievable outcome of the AI gangs dashing themselves against impossible walls of firepower over and over and over again. . That is why most games... indeed all successful games... start from gameplay... as all successful films start from watchability... ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 2:39 pm Last edited Feb 11, 2014, 2:41 pm by goat starer

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 so instead of advocating a better AI, you advocate unbelievability and lack of realism... sounds more like an excuse, which is a form of denial ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 5:01 pm Last edited Feb 11, 2014, 5:02 pm by Grimm Sykes

Bolt Thrower Quantum Symphony Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: Sep 12, 2013 I kind of think that whenever you do straight penalties to a specific action like Simon is advocating, players will find a way to break it. Unless the penalties are so overwhelming for players with no concurrent penalties to AI, any difficulty in gameplay gets quickly overcome by shifts in strategy. So for a short time it would be exciting, and then some people would quickly find a routine again. It is probably hard to code, but making AI attack patterns unpredictable, would make the game harder. If they learned to flank or circle to higher ground before attacking, line fighting would be more difficult. Or if ballistics car stopped moving once they were in range, and just bombarded the line. ......................... vet wv northernsummer1,91,1 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 5:26 pm

Bolt Thrower Quantum Symphony Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: Sep 12, 2013 This is an interesting concept.  But to minimize abuse you could give each chassis a training modifier.  And give each weapon a training modifier.  Training skill gain modified by chassis and the weapon with lowest modifier. Apache with HMG, lower skill gain. Pho with MMG, normal skill gain Racoon with FT (should you live), higher skill gain. *The X Man* said: simonmaxhill said: I'd change the to-hit penalties massively in favor of moving vehicles vs stationary ones. I get the concept, but I would lean differently towards a different way to implement your idea. Eliminate the penalty aspect. What should really be rewarded is for game play that is more difficult and dangerous. Muscle scouts should get a better bonus and/or increase to their gunnery skills. Driving around at 40 to 70 mph and shooting a weapon is hard and deserves better rewards. Line fighting is easy. It doesn't take a lot of skill to put on the Ebrake and shoot, so skill training should be at a minimum. Anytime you go over your starting speed (30 mph), you would should get an increase in skill training. Now, that does mean after 50 turns of line fighting you start to drive and get 2 shots in over 30 mph before the scout ends that you should get a bonus. The bonus should apply only if more than half of the turns in your encounter were at + 30mph. Implementing ways to reward players who choose to play with higher difficulty and higher risk should always be made available. That being said, Flame Thrower Ram scouts should probably get a triple bonus! ......................... vet wv northernsummer1,91,1 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 5:36 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Grimm Sykes said: so instead of advocating a better AI, you advocate unbelievability and lack of realism... sounds more like an excuse, which is a form of denial instead of advocating something that is incredibly complicated and time consuming and might not be possible i advocate something that is a simple database change and has the same effect? that would seem sensible.. not that im advocating anything... just reminding you that you have missed the point... again... and again... and again ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 11, 2014, 6:49 pm

*Rev. V* Cestus Dei Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 3,208 Joined: Aug 3, 2010 " It would be nice if he was able to teach the AI to fight better based on player weapons use and strategies." I have seen some AI behavior in the past few weeks that makes me believe this may already be in effect. ......................... vet wv zom marshal paintladder cont Posted Feb 14, 2014, 9:55 pm

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 yeah definitely I do wonder though if the pheromone thing has overcome some of this behaviour as I see less of it now than I used to. Snipe tactics (search high ground on flanks) used to be a common thing to see, especially when scouting in Texan. I also socut a lot less than I used to, that could play a big part also. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Feb 15, 2014, 12:55 am

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 Copy that. You want a realistic, believable post apocalypse game in which people scrape together armored vehicles using the remnants of civilization. I love games that achieve willing suspension of disbelief by being believable while at the same time appealingly fantastic and dynamic. Difference of styles! StCrispin said: goat starer said: Grimm Sykes said: Do you even understand how vectors and speed work? Stationary shooters can achieve more accurate aim. Try running and shooting a gun at the same time. This is about as silly as holding a gun sideways and expecting the same ballistics path. once again you miss the point completely. Simon is looking to make the game more dynamic and interesting... not to make it more realistic. try to keep up So we want it to be LESS realistic and more unbelievable? Personally I prefer believability ......................... vet wv Posted Feb 25, 2014, 9:01 pm

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 762 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Quote: I have seen some AI behavior in the past few weeks that makes me believe this may already be in effect. In Morgan... I saw some things. Was disturbing. ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Feb 26, 2014, 12:26 am

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