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vehicle specialisms = permadamaged gear is valuable

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 I read over the whole "item degredation" thread and the two challenges to gameplay that item degredation poses are: 1. players abandon equipment as soon as it is less than 99% (or below 95%) 2. players hoard precious gear and never use it, for fear that it will become perma-damaged Vehicle customization seems to be a popular solution, but I propose a less player-controlled solution: Allow vehicles to attain specialisms, like characters, in a way similar to how they acquire vehicle fame This would achieve some of the effects of custom vehicles, but without the min/max game balance issues. It would provide a strong motivation to continue to use damaged/degraded equipment, and to risk rare/valuable equipment in game. I, for one, like to imagine an "old war horse" that a gang keeps in circulation even though the chassis is down to 70%.  Especially if that war horse is a McFly with dual rocket launchers. The horse was the god of Mongolia.  The car is the god of the Evan. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 28, 2009, 5:19 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 What type of specialisms? Stuff that could be explained as mechanic-tuning? -- extra efficient on fuel use, stronger than normal armour, etc.? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 28, 2009, 5:23 pm Last edited Oct 28, 2009, 5:24 pm by *sam*

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 Gawd, I should dig up the old thread. Here's a quick brain dump based on my faulty memory: Good visibility: increases scout effectiveness for vehicle Stealthed: decreases vehicle's value in terms of making the squad detectable on travels Brushcutter: vehicle with mounted spikes can cut travel times by 10% Stable Chassis: reduces recoil from fired weapons Enhanced gearing: increases acceleration in the 10-30mph range band High top speed: increases acceleration at higher speeds Scarred: chassis strength increased 10% Terrifying: vehicle increases stress levels of enemy vehicles Off-road chassis: gains some benefit when off-road Roadster: accel bonus on blacktop Lucky: counts as having some kind of defensive driver bonus Beautiful paint: gives squad morale boost when vehicle has recently been "clean restored" (perhaps only for custom skins) Custom ammo hopper: gives all chars in vehicle a 1 turn reduction on reloading Stripped: vehicle weight reduced by 10% as so on. Hopefully nothing game-unbalancing, but definitely reasons to keep a battle-damaged vehicle around. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 28, 2009, 5:30 pm Last edited Oct 28, 2009, 5:31 pm by simonmaxhill

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 man, I can't believe I forgot this one: BFF Special: max speed in reverse increased to by 50% ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 28, 2009, 5:32 pm

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 I also made a thread on this http://www.dark-wind.com/forums2/index.php?a=topic&t=9743 ......................... vet wv zom Posted Oct 28, 2009, 5:39 pm

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 I like how Karz's concept combines both cars gaining experience and the resource/management idea of having the gang owner inititate the research/customization. It's more complicated than how I like things, but I do know a lot of players love complicated. So the car reaches a certain level of potential, and your mechs see potential in it/finally get it tweaked just right. Could be something only do-able in camp, too, to push more people into camps and give smaller camps more utility. Or not. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 28, 2009, 5:50 pm

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 How did you envisage them being earned, selected etc? ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Oct 28, 2009, 5:51 pm

*Urban Decay* Old School Perverts Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 1,023 Joined: Nov 8, 2007 Sounds like it should be a cross between Fame generation, and general use similar to how gangers increase thier skills. Vehicle would have a "skill pool" on it, that you can't see. It would be filled based on Fame generation, and general use. Such as how many enemy cars it has fired upon, how often it gets a killing blow, and how many miles of travel it has gathered. Once a Vehicle specialism has been earned, you would select it as you do for a ganger, maybe having it only choose from options that it earned. For example, the proposed Brushcutter option would not be available to a Vehicle that has not or rarely uses Mounted Spikes/Ram. Something to cut fuel costs would not be on a vehicle that rarely travels to other towns. ......................... vet wv marshal raceL1 deathrceL10,4,0 Posted Oct 28, 2009, 6:03 pm

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 If you wanted to make this very easily-implemented so that it could be grandfathered in, just give cars a spec for every fame status upgrade. That way any car in anyone's garage could get upgraded as they would've had this been around when they moved up. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Oct 28, 2009, 6:08 pm

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 Honestly didn't think too hard about that detail. Mostly I just thought "this reward would keep permadamaged vehicles in circulation longer, and get people to take their FTs out even at the risk of permadamage." But here's my initial thoughts: it shouldn't be super "grindable" - so if its an "achievement" based system, the bars for achievement should be completely secret and difficult to predict. I'd encourage Sam to come up with a variety of experience levels for vehicles - miles driven (in combat, in travel), damage taken (armor, internal), blood shed (enemy, own crew), etc. Perhaps different combinations would unlock different kinds of modification possibilities? These would be similar to ganger characteristics, with some visible, and some hidden. So a car would have a data sheet of: combat miles arena miles travel miles average speed in wilderness combats average speed races/deathraces armor lost internal damage takent crew takent damage inflicted pedestrian kills crew kills heavy weapons fired light weapons fired rams fame earned for gang Might be too much info to track. I'm not a computer guy, so I dunno. I'm sure a simpler, more abstracted version could be implemented with far less detailed tracking of a vehicles performance. This is a bit nuts and bolts for me, honestly. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 28, 2009, 6:09 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Simple - Renowned - pick one, Famous - Pickone, Legendary - pick one. 3 Max. Perhaps limit certain one to certain chassis types. I.E no strong armour for race cars. I think this is a great Idea - I might actually care about car fame. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Oct 28, 2009, 6:12 pm Last edited Oct 28, 2009, 6:13 pm by Joel Autobaun

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 The Paranoid Tourist said: If you wanted to make this very easily-implemented so that it could be grandfathered in, just give cars a spec for every fame status upgrade. That way any car in anyone's garage could get upgraded as they would've had this been around when they moved up. Bah you beat me to it.  Good idea. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Oct 28, 2009, 6:14 pm

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 simonmaxhill said: it shouldn't be super "grindable" - so if its an "achievement" based system, the bars for achievement should be completely secret and difficult to predict. Very much agree. Characters are very grindy; wouldn't want this on cars too. ......................... vet wv zom Posted Oct 28, 2009, 6:14 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 true cars in DW are pretty bland for players, only because they stick largely to a few key chassis, being able to mod them would be nice, and not nessarly after getting your car renowned, but if you insist; how about rounded armor - gains 1 level of toughness more efficient - save 1 bulk space per weapon/component (might make it possible to find new unique setups for any chassis) or in a different vein, if you talk to sailors, some will speak of their boats having a "soul" transfered to a car you might get a bunch of possibilities, in a nut shell "trustworthy/lucky" - less blue text to you "cursed" - more blue text to you, or more jamned guns "fiery spirit" more blue text to others and to you "peacefull" less blue text to you or others, less stress to you "arrow" - handles better "arabian" sometimes "kicks" throwing you like a blown tire, accelerates fast "pinto" - prone to explode lol "dragon" - intimidates your oponents "rolex" - takes a licking and keeps on beating, less chassis damage "stout/guiness" - handles recoil better "stable" - shoots farther "blind" - shoots less far "tranpeline" - turtles often "prone" - turtles less "average" - average again these are things you can't pick so it won't unballance the game these "attributes" inherent things would come with the car in varying mixes from the get go, and is something that will be visible to the player after X amount of time (every 10-20 events?), in addition to the fame level ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Oct 29, 2009, 10:28 am Last edited Oct 29, 2009, 11:06 am by *Tinker*

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 As we said in the other thread, whatever specs get in and however you get them, they should still be randomly awarded. I still don't think this should be tied to the fame of a car. ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Oct 29, 2009, 1:34 pm

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 pinto! FF - I think the fame thing was suggested simply because we already have that mechanism in place. It's a quick and dirty solution rather than a bigger, more complicated implementation. That said, I'd love if these characteristics were a little easier to come by than a famous or reknown vehicle. I have exactly zero of those and sort of feel that they're the vehicle equivalent of gangers with 300+ skill (i.e. I'm never going to get any). Maybe the 1st specialism would be moderately easy to get, with the curve getting steeper and steeper as you got towards the later specs? ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 29, 2009, 2:21 pm

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 The 4X aspect - more specifically the Xpand part - can possibly be expanded on by assigning mechanics to R&D on individual vehicles. ......................... vet wv zom Posted Oct 29, 2009, 2:55 pm

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 IF vehicle upgrades happen they need to based on something that's not easy to get and they must be able to be grandfathered in. The only way that I can imagine to do that is to base it on the vehicle's fame status. It's not easy to get a vehicle to renowned, but it's far from impossible. It's much easier, in fact, than getting a ganger to 300. (My highest character is currently at 282 and I've had two legendary vehicles for some time now.) The idea of 'negative' vehicle statuses seems just silly to me. What happens, I bring home a vehicle one day and suddenly it's crappier than before? This completely negates the idea of giving players more reasons to keep their old vehicles around when they're banged up a bit. Now we'd have to sell them at a reduced price due to their new-found curse. Also, I really hate the idea of a random specialism for the cars. I don't want to gain something that I have no use for on one of my uncommon or favorite vehicles. Again, IF vehicle specialisms were to happen (which I don't really think I'm in favor of, at the moment) they should be hard to get due to their potential power, should be chosen, should be able to be grandfathered in, and should probably come with a bit of a CR increase on the vehicle. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Oct 29, 2009, 3:00 pm

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 The Paranoid Tourist said: they should be hard to get due to their potential power, should be chosen, should be able to be grandfathered in, and should probably come with a bit of a CR increase on the vehicle. Agreed. The uniqueness must come at a hefty cost. This IMO makes it a time and resource sink that players might want to consider carefully before venturing forth. ......................... vet wv zom Posted Oct 29, 2009, 3:01 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 I like this lot.. and of course they should be tied to the fame of the car ... you should earn a specialism at each of renowned, famous and legendary. I prefer the specs that are NOT mechanic originated... the car having a soul idea. because mech type changes should be possible just with enough cash. vehicles that confer bonuses or impediments to crew would be my favorite.. less stress to crew - its a tough old beast.. its survived everything... its not gonna die now! more stress to enemy - OMG.. its that big yellow thing again.. run away! ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 29, 2009, 3:19 pm

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