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Advance Warning of Rule Tweaks

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 darthspanky said: the noobs may like it now but once they get alot of stuff i bet they wont like it then hehe Contrary to the notion you are entertaining, that change benefits no one. Lock-up costs will increase for new and old players alike. Truth be told, the veterans of the game have been widely rewarded for their perseverence by rare items they pay derisory maintenance for. If Sam had upped maintenance cost tenfold you would begin to have an argument that holds, but how can you possibly be worried about this increase when you're sitting on millions of dollars?!? This change isn't a problem unless you own far too much equipment. Longo mentioned he needs half a million dollars currently to break even on a weekly basis. Without attacking that argument, per-say, I'd be curious to know how much of that half-mil goes to maintaining a camp that grants you benefits beginning and intermediate players can't even begin to dream of... The bottom line is any change of this type would have caused the community to flare up in one regard or another, but in practice I imagine it will have an impact much less devastating than predicted by nay-sayers. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 3:04 am

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Groove Champion said: darthspanky said: the noobs may like it now but once they get alot of stuff i bet they wont like it then hehe Contrary to the notion you are entertaining, that change benefits no one. Lock-up costs will increase for new and old players alike. Truth be told, the veterans of the game have been widely rewarded for their perseverence by rare items they pay derisory maintenance for. If Sam had upped maintenance cost tenfold you would begin to have an argument that holds, but how can you possibly be worried about this increase when you're sitting on millions of dollars?!? This change isn't a problem unless you own far too much equipment. Longo mentioned he needs half a million dollars currently to break even on a weekly basis. Without attacking that argument, per-say, I'd be curious to know how much of that half-mil goes to maintaining a camp that grants you benefits beginning and intermediate players can't even begin to dream of... The bottom line is any change of this type would have caused the community to flare up in one regard or another, but in practice I imagine it will have an impact much less devastating than predicted by nay-sayers. My BL garage fees alone I calculated at $230,010 per week. I didnt bother with the rest of the towns. As for camp fees, I have a small BL camp. With NPCs wages, I believe these are under 50k per week. With open Pvp I am making 3 lorries a month, and selling them to camp members at a very reasonable price. With brining in all the mats to camp, etc, I would think my monthly camp profit is about 150k per month. As for having "a camp that grants you benefits beginning and intermediate players can't even begin to dream of... " this is totally untrue. Sam has openly stated that anyone who wanted a camp and had the money to maintain one, could have one. Anybody can get a few buds together and build a camp, just the way Latte, Zoltan, and I did with Southern Pride. It will take alot of work and just won't be handed to you, but with hard work and teamwork it is easily attainable. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 3:17 am Last edited Aug 25, 2009, 3:19 am by Longo

Zoltan The Cosmic Kids Autodueller Merchants Faction Group: Members Posts: 421 Joined: Dec 1, 2007 I have tons of cash and equipment even though i have quit and gave it all away several times. But I play alot and can easily make 1mil a week just looting and scouting so do your damndest. But what about the part time player who has amassed alot of stuff. there is no way he will be able to maintain it. i think you are looking at a train wreck here. He shouldn't be penalized for playing only a few times a week and have to lose all the stuff he has amassed. ......................... vet wv pvp4 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 3:47 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 He doesn't have to lose all his stuff... There's still no reason for owning excess vehicles if your volume of play is too low to maintain it. If a player can't afford to have 3 replacement Stormers in BL he keeps as insurance (for example), then he can sell them. Rares are supposed to be... rare. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:01 am

Zoltan The Cosmic Kids Autodueller Merchants Faction Group: Members Posts: 421 Joined: Dec 1, 2007 Lol then what is the point of the game? If not to amass stuff everyone has their vision i guess, but WOW and the like were about levelling up and attaining more. if you take that away I think you are asking for trouble. Just my opinion. ......................... vet wv pvp4 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:54 am

Crazy AL Street Pizza Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,228 Joined: Feb 14, 2008 *sam* said: 2.  Increase the rate at which permanent-damage to equipment happens. It will be 3% each time the item is mended, rather than the current 1%. However, if the item is already within 5% of its maximum then it receives no permanent damage at all when fixed. Does anyone else think this will make getting a renowned, famous or legendary vehicles a thing of the past? I realize that good crews and good strategy usually maintain cars in excellent condition during scouts, however we all know that things go bad sometimes and there's no chance to avoid chassis damage 100% of the time. With the amount of scouts it takes to get a car to that known, I can't imagine a car making it with the deterioration that will take place. ......................... vet wv zom pvp1 ped1 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 5:02 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Zoltan said: Lol then what is the point of the game? If not to amass stuff everyone has their vision i guess, but WOW and the like were about levelling up and attaining more. if you take that away I think you are asking for trouble. Just my opinion. What I really meant is that it is entirely possible to play the game properly without having a bunch of rares. Stocking up rares in a world that produces them ad infinitum is a little bit ironic in my opinion. I'm just glad to see people will have to pick and choose what they keep and play smart instead of stockpiling. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 5:15 am

BWGunner DriveByRomance Autodueller Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 413 Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Hurumph. I do wonder what the basis of sweeping changes like these are. I mean, in the Rules Council's perfect world how are we supposed to be acting, because evidently our behavior is not what someone has in mind. These changes won't make me move my operations out of Somerset. Isn't that one of the things we're trying to encourage? Or do I have that wrong and casual gamers like me (with over 1.5 years of time) are really just doomed to haunting Somerset? I firmly side with the "hey, this isn't a simulation" camp and think the pursuit of realism through taxes and limits is absurd. Play with the economy (you know, by making some stuff hard to find and others common, depending on where you are...as opposed to offering the same crap everywhere just at different prices) if you want to see sweeping changes... stuff that would add variety and competition. Texture. Like when you killed fuel in Gateway, that was a good change. More of that. This stuff seems to me to be just barriers to play in order to rope in some veterans who appear to be hoarding or something...and who cares? The last change was a pain, but I got over it and found other ways to work the system. That's what we do...and control is an illusion. More texture, less control. Let the chaos of a loose system determine its own order. Besides, discouraging the amassing of wealth and cars and rare weapons seems antithetical. What do I have to look forward to now? ......................... vet wv cont Posted Aug 25, 2009, 5:19 am Last edited Aug 25, 2009, 5:19 am by BWGunner

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 I don't mind the garage fee increase, but I do think that the prizes for pro events need to be adjusted likewise, or even more, given that to participate in pro events you have to keep a large, well stocked garage. ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 6:44 am

wounded Blackwater CarPark Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 159 Joined: May 9, 2009 I like the permanent damage change. This way you won't be instantly penalized for getting slight damage. The increase in maintenance fees without getting anything for your money on the other hand is something that I was hoping was not going to be implemented. Having to maintenance your garage in each town could have added more gameplay while being a money sink at the same time. The gameplay consequences of increased maintenance cost and wages might be difficult to predict. I would suspect that the prices of the rare cars on markets will increase as the pirates in the tougher town will be tougher (which is a nice addition if maintained properly) and the price of operating in the tougher towns will be significantly higher. Also as the players who loot the rare cars can't simply hold so many of them in reserve, they will probably see them as more rare and valuable. I hope the implemented changes will work as planned... ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 6:46 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Love all the changes. Kudos. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 6:53 am

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Crazy Al said: Does anyone else think this will make getting a renowned, famous or legendary vehicles a thing of the past? I realize that good crews and good strategy usually maintain cars in excellent condition during scouts, however we all know that things go bad sometimes and there's no chance to avoid chassis damage 100% of the time. With the amount of scouts it takes to get a car to that known, I can't imagine a car making it with the deterioration that will take place. Why should it be a thing of the past? Before this change every time you took chassis damage perma-damage came in to effect. From asking around and personal experience minor chassis damage (<5%) is easily by far the most common (e.g. minor armour penetration, collision etc). This should balance out in favour of the players. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 7:04 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Indeed. And just because you take a little chassis damage, doesn't mean you need to get rid of the car -- drive it till it dies, I say. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 7:33 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 One of the things that increased garage and lockup fees does is make camp-based storage relatively better value. The garage and maintenance fees we currently have are the ones I plucked out of the air when developing the game, based on guesstimates. There's a lot more money around than I thought there would be at that time. With regard to increased perma-damage: don't forget that camps are now producing more rares than ever before. One camp is currently producing ambulances. It's better to have rares that are attainable and also destroyable rather than them being so rare that you're scared to ever use them. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 10:20 am

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 After Longos post and reading others i decided to check out costings for myself, now if i read the changes right, for just the FT i have in BL will now cost me $ 9000 a week. WHAT THE HELL this seems to be a game breaker for me and maybe others, this will dramatically change the way the game is played, to its detrement. Now if i decide to sell all my rares, what are they worth ? well nothing because nobody will want to purchase a vehicle that costs so much to keep. Why isnt there a minimum storage amount for vehicles that you can keep before massive hikes in prices ? what about being able to own lock up space for rares ? this seems all very arbitary and anti the playing style of nearly all. As stated by others, what is there to accomplish if it isnt the ownership of a nice garage, thats what basically kept me here from the start, seing what others own, and wanting a little piece of that action. I may be on all the time but still cannot scout the amount some do, i will never be able to keep my garage going or my gang for that matter, what with the spreading of gear to shanty and texan, i dont think this has been thought out very well by the RC considering everything else that has been implemented. *Edit* are the Garage fees showing present cost per vehicle or the new cost , same question for lockup ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 25, 2009, 10:27 am Last edited Aug 25, 2009, 10:32 am by *Grograt*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Forget it, I won't change anything then. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 10:35 am

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 *sam* said: Forget it, I won't change anything then. Sam i can understand changes being wanted and required for game balance, this just seems like a major change and questions will be asked, i myself never really checked my garage fees and now am uncertain to what figures i am reviewing whether they are the old costs i am seeing or the new costs that will be implemented. I apologise if you find the tone of my post derogatory. ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 25, 2009, 10:42 am

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *sam* said: Forget it, I won't change anything then. For what its worth, I think 1, 2, and 4, although "Anti-Longo," are all great ideas. With the gang's training harder, I expect I will be losing more, reducing my garage. But I want to have a garage of cars to lose. With #3, I have no choice but to move the majority of my gang to SS. My honest plans with #3 implemented are to move all but maybe 10 cars from BL to SS. I already asked around for others to help move them. Also store what I can in camp. Scout just in SS and Elms. Abandon FL, Sars, and Shanty completely(I had moved a small crew to shanty to "browse" Pvp). Ill keep a skeleton crew in BL and Texan only maybe 3 man crews, and everyone else will be in Elms and SS. If thats what you intended, so be it. I already accepted the fact. Check my roster, Ive got crews traveling as we speak. I already pulled 1 crew out of Texan and they are on the long trek back. Ive already made 1 run with spare gear to camp. I dont like it, but accepted it. Ill burn my 20+ million down to nothing before I give up my garage of cars though. And when the money is gone and I cant maintain them, then its time for me to find another hobby. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 10:52 am Last edited Aug 25, 2009, 10:54 am by Longo

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 *sam* said: One of the things that increased garage and lockup fees does is make camp-based storage relatively better value. The garage and maintenance fees we currently have are the ones I plucked out of the air when developing the game, based on guesstimates. There's a lot more money around than I thought there would be at that time. With regard to increased perma-damage: don't forget that camps are now producing more rares than ever before. One camp is currently producing ambulances. It's better to have rares that are attainable and also destroyable rather than them being so rare that you're scared to ever use them. Indeed, which is why I liked the changes. Honestly, in my mind, gangs should be smaller -- running only a handful of vehicles, either staying in one area or traveling. At the moment, I can have 2 cars in every town scouting constantly, and still have enough gang members to do several travel encounters... plus I can hold hundreds of cars, guns and engines in storage for almost no cost to myself. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 11:08 am Last edited Aug 25, 2009, 11:24 am by Serephe

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 *sam* said: Forget it, I won't change anything then. Could we have numbers to figure out what would these changes really means? ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 12:22 pm

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