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Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 Sam, what is the difference between a PvP fight and a NPC fight? Sometimes NPCs get more fame and can be tougher than some PCs. This doesnt make sense. I realize you want to have more PvP but don't force camp people into it because the wishes of a minority of players. Scouting from a camp should enable fame just as much as anything else. PvP is already active from camps. traveling from camp to town in SS is PvP. If people want to PvP all they have to do is sit on the road between camp and SS. the camp owners will have to travel from camp to SS for supplies and to sell loot for money to buy more supplies. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 9, 2009, 6:28 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: what is the difference between a PvP fight and a NPC fight? 1. The challenge 2. The opportunity for fun, roleplay and in-game politics 3. The potential for loss rather than gain I'm trying to improve (3) in order to promote (1) and (2) Quote: but don't force camp people into it because the wishes of a minority of players. Nobody is forced, it's entirely consentual only. In fact I'm actually removing non-consentual pvp where it previously existed. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:18 pm

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 How will all these changes to camps affect those of us way down the food chain. I feel a bit of a user at the moment as my guys drive to and from camp to boost our skills and to transport surplus water. In return I repair vehicles there, but since I get no clue as to how much resource I am using up by so doing, I cannot judge whether I am pulling my weight. If I could boost the camps fame or security by running scouts from it I would at least feel that my small contribution was worthwhile and the repairs a necessary consequence of camp-centric activity (rather than a purely selfish plundering of someone else's hard work). For this to fit with my schedule, it would generally have to be when I can do it and not be tied to coordinating with another player (therefore a solo scout). Currently I think in 1000's rather than millions and a part of the patron culture of DW means that until I get to that level I am going to be a net consumer. What I can provide (as my medieval serf counterpart could) is an independently managed ganger strand, and my time for military service. For this to work, the military service needs to be appropriate for a new players resources and more importantly low ganger skills. At the moment it seems that the celestial beings that have been playing 2 years or more are having to manage at too low a level and as a result there is no place for us pond life. We cannot build our own camps as we are too poor. If I could build my own factory within a camp and be responsible for its supply and management, I could be useful in resource production. How else can I serve? ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:29 pm Last edited Apr 9, 2009, 7:32 pm by Iron Wraith

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I think offering your services to defend a camp will be an important mechanism for contributing, Iron. If the camp is at war with another camp, I think your help with be highly valued. Even if it's not at war with another camp, every camp that wants to be open for most/all hours in the day will need defenders online as much as possible, to help against NPC attacks. If an attack comes in and there's no willing defender, the result will be looting/damage to the camp. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:42 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *sam* said: Quote: what is the difference between a PvP fight and a NPC fight? 1. The challenge 2. The opportunity for fun, roleplay and in-game politics 3. The potential for loss rather than gain I'm trying to improve (3) in order to promote (1) and (2) Quote: but don't force camp people into it because the wishes of a minority of players. Nobody is forced, it's entirely consentual only. In fact I'm actually removing non-consentual pvp where it previously existed. Why would you remove non-consensual Pvp? You pay a fine if you dont want to fight. Its easy. I paid goat yesterday because my cars were all beat up, and I had no CC ammo.... ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:42 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: Why would you remove non-consensual Pvp? You pay a fine if you dont want to fight. Its easy. I paid goat yesterday because my cars were all beat up, and I had no CC ammo.... If you can afford the hit it's easy. Weaker PvE-oriented players find the bounty expensive and negative to their gameplay. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:44 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *sam* said: Quote: Why would you remove non-consensual Pvp? You pay a fine if you dont want to fight. Its easy. I paid goat yesterday because my cars were all beat up, and I had no CC ammo.... If you can afford the hit it's easy. Weaker PvE-oriented players find the bounty expensive and negative to their gameplay. My concern Sam is that Player A attacks me after I resign in an arena combat, and I want to get even. So with the new rules, unless he is a member of a camp that I am at war with, I cant touch him? I dont like that one bit. Its already bad enough that SS is safe. If players are capable of venturing out of SS, they should be able to afford to pay a bounty? ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:53 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 I don't have a camp , I don't understand a lot about the details here. But, I do see this as a good thing for one reason. These "idle" camps are about to get recycled and that's a good thing. This mechanism will shake some dust of this aspect of the game. Some people are going to get pretty pissed though, I worry about people getting so mad they leave the game over it. I hope that attacks are not completely devastating - at least until everyone really understands the strategy and stuff surrounding it. Personally, I think the active camps are going to be just fine. It's the inactive once that are gonna get picked on/ picked up or whatever, by NPCs if not PCs. Another worry is, well if this all surrounds rare items - are camps going to be able to make RGMs again etc? A lot of the "rare" weapons are actually no big deal compared to a good ol' hvg MG. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:54 pm Last edited Apr 9, 2009, 7:55 pm by Joel Autobaun

Marrkos 88 MPH Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,711 Joined: Mar 28, 2006 *sam* said: If you can afford the hit it's easy. Weaker PvE-oriented players find the bounty expensive and negative to their gameplay. I thought the bounty amount was based on the resources of the attacked player?  Wouldn't that ensure the bounty was 'affordable'? ......................... vet wv community Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:55 pm

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 The problem with making PvP mandatory for camp owners is say BYE BYE to highly skilled characters and expensive equipment. Both sides will lose their best characters and equipment eventually. In a fight the attacker will target the cars with the best equipment and best characters. over time everyone will lose those characters and equipment. This will enable us to hire hit gangs that just attack other PCs and target only the best equipment and characters. That gang will lose characters and equipment too but will be replaced by the camp owner for the service. An apache with dual HMGs will be the best vehicle. cheap and easy to replace. The gang will not care about the characters because they will just hire more. and those who do not participate in camps will have their characters safe and sound. sounds completely inconsistent. Any changes should have benefits for both sides of the equation. Fighting NPCs can be risky just as fighting PCs. I see more and more new people in this game, how is the lack of PvP detrimental to the game if new people join? Those that want to PvP have areas to go to and PvP. The only reason we do not have rampant PvP is because of the limited number of people in the game. There will come a day when someone can scout for player squads and get an encounter every time. Camp fame should be gained with scouting from the camp to clear a safe zone around the camp and fighting off attackers REGARDLESS if they are NPC or PC. What if a camp doesnt ever get attacked by a PC??? That camp will suffer because no PC wants to attack it. If the camp isnt worth the risk of characters and equipment that camp will not get attacked and lose fame. too many problems here sam with making PvP mandatory ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 9, 2009, 7:58 pm

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 If PvP is mandatory then the top characters in the game will start to get killed off and we'll all get to the point where we will be replacing our entire gangs weekly to bi-weekly or depending on play time. A perfect example of a hit gang would be DAMON. he doesnt play strategically, he just charges and kills. He also gets killed, constantly. If I told him to attack the PCs that are attacking my camp he will go after the best cars in the fight, charge in and kill them disregarding who he loses. Anything lost equipment wise I just keep him supplied. This play isnt an exploit, it is a valid tactic used throughout the world all through history and even up to today's conflicts. your new system will enact this tactic sam. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 9, 2009, 8:04 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: If you can afford the hit it's easy. Weaker PvE-oriented players find the bounty expensive and negative to their gameplay. I thought the bounty amount was based on the resources of the attacked player?  Wouldn't that ensure the bounty was 'affordable'? That's true, actually the complaint that's been made to me is by players that have limited time to play and find themselves "spammed" with time-consuming and dangerous pvp return encounters. They feel they should have the right to play without pvp. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 8:47 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: too many problems here sam with making PvP mandatory It's not being made mandatory ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 8:48 pm Last edited Apr 9, 2009, 8:48 pm by *sam*

Marrkos 88 MPH Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,711 Joined: Mar 28, 2006 *sam* said: That's true, actually the complaint that's been made to me is by players that have limited time to play and find themselves "spammed" with time-consuming and dangerous pvp return encounters. They feel they should have the right to play without pvp. Understood. Probably really need a way to have PvP encounters that aren't always Returns.  It's been brought up before I think, but is a topic for another thread. ......................... vet wv community Posted Apr 9, 2009, 8:51 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Pvp was always going to be part of camp ownership, by the way. The 'opening hours' system makes that very clear. The changes I'm currently making are actually allowing camp owners to avoid pvp if they wish, so far from making it mandatory I'm actually making it less so. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 9:10 pm

Fealty Lost Slaughterhouse: Bloody Remains Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 1,258 Joined: Jan 6, 2009 Hey...I don't ALWAYS charge in and...oh, wait...ya I do. No...wait, no I don't! Dropped weapons...soften them up...THEN charge in and kill anything that moves...or crawls, wounded, bleeding out and begging for its life.... For you MM...I'd kill anyone. All I need to know is...where...they...are. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 9, 2009, 9:25 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: My concern Sam is that Player A attacks me after I resign in an arena combat, and I want to get even. So with the new rules, unless he is a member of a camp that I am at war with, I cant touch him? I dont like that one bit. Its already bad enough that SS is safe. If players are capable of venturing out of SS, they should be able to afford to pay a bounty? Yeah, I take your point. How to avoid the 'spamming' of a player with repeated hits when he's returning from scouts though? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 9:26 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *sam* said: Quote: My concern Sam is that Player A attacks me after I resign in an arena combat, and I want to get even. So with the new rules, unless he is a member of a camp that I am at war with, I cant touch him? I dont like that one bit. Its already bad enough that SS is safe. If players are capable of venturing out of SS, they should be able to afford to pay a bounty? Yeah, I take your point. How to avoid the 'spamming' of a player with repeated hits when he's returning from scouts though? you mean every time he goes out on scouts, or a player getting hit more than once on a return encounter? ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 9:32 pm

Fealty Lost Slaughterhouse: Bloody Remains Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 1,258 Joined: Jan 6, 2009 So...we were discussing auctions of camps/new camps/inactive camps/wth were we talking about? Anyway...I just had a nice interaction with Zothen (who, btw, hates me) about camps. His arguement: camps are RARE and should only be owned by those who were here first. My arguement: camps should be made available to anyone who wants to put in the work to get the resources available to do so. If camps are rare, then every player who came AFTER the camps were all scarfed up will most probably (if this is something that appeals to him/her) never get one. The same few people who have them will continue to dominate the economy and have access to the best equipment, while the rest of us wallow about taking what we can scrape together. Needless to say, my arguement rules, Z-man's drools. (that ought to get me some love) This auction, again, will be ruled by those who have the cash. Not every player out there needs to collect things. Some of us are perfectly happy to run around killing stuff...and, in my case, getting killed. But, say, should I ever decide to want a camp, well, too bad. I'd have to wait around who knows how long for another of these auctions. Bogus. Of course, I'm sure there is something limiting the number of camps...but since I'm completely ignorant of computer coding and what not, I don't know them. That's why we have people like Sam, whom we can revere and worship as a god. So, camps rare...sorry, that's reserved for steaks. Or, if you ARE going to make them so...then those of us who live in cities should have the option of putting together our own hideout/gang hangout/warehouse or whatever, in which we can gain certain advantages to repair/modification, whatever, from those resources we can stockpile. Mind you, we won't be able to do the rare research/produce stuff like a camp...but we could take what we capture and produce raw materials/parts...and that way, while not having a real camp, we'd still have a place to call home...instead of floating about in some amorphous semi-state of existence called Somerset. Ya, that's it...I want a freaking hideout! NOW! ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 9, 2009, 9:52 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,008 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 well when alo/xander ever decides to play again hes gunna be pissed to find all his camps are screwd and stolen or destroyed, i will find it very amusing when they decides to raise camp fame and start pvping others, i can hear the ones he attacks bitching about it already. ive already sold a few camps cause of previous camp nerfs were so frustrating, im now babysitting xanders camp as owner but im kinda glad its not mine, i wouldnt bid on a new camp cause this is a camp nerf imo. the real question is why would someone risk pvp for a camp that cost too much, takes too long to make rares and now the rules are gunna change in the future again, some of us dont want a bunch members fighting for our camps defence when we would rather do it ourselves because its our camp and i dont want some new guy deciding if i win a camp battle if im not on. but if were not online with our gang at the time npc do a camp combat we take losses. what are our guys doing just letting them loot and destroy the camp just cause were not online when they attack. i just feel sorry for the first sob who tries to get fame by attacking us we will have to change our names to grievers are us ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Apr 9, 2009, 10:14 pm

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