Lap records and nitro boosters (33 Votes)
Re-allow boosters and nitros in lap records	18.18% - 6 votes
Disallow them and kill all current records	72.73% - 24 votes
Disallow them and leave current records intact	9.09% - 3 votes

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Lap records and nitro boosters

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 As you may have noticed, lap records are now being displayed as little medals on your forum posts. The whole issue of whether rocket-boosters and nitros should be allowed in lap records has come up again. The problem is, they were allowed for some months after they were first implemented, therefore many of the current laprecords are effectively 'unassailable'. Currently any car using a nitro or booster is disallowed from lap records. My proposal is to delete all current lap records and continue to disallow boosters/nitros... there are 2 other possible courses of action too, as per the poll. Discussion here: lap records ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Feb 16, 2009, 11:11 pm Last edited Feb 16, 2009, 11:13 pm by *sam*

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 i voted #2 seems the fairest option, and everybody can start as equals. well till Alo returns ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Feb 16, 2009, 11:16 pm

*Chase Bansi* Team Bansi Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 693 Joined: Aug 13, 2007 My only caveat is that some players have put a lot of effort into setting record times and it will be a shame for them to loose some glory. On the other hand I can see this causing a renewed interest in league events and just plain old racing. Which kind of brings up another question: Should records be limited to league events and/or server generated events? Custom events should probably be excluded similarly to skills gains. ......................... marshal vet gateautumn wv e2g0,1,0 Posted Feb 16, 2009, 11:52 pm

Seiler Pestilence Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers Posts: 946 Joined: Apr 29, 2007 I'd like to even go further and propose that lap records can only be set in an actual race event, otherwise the lap records are simply a matter of setting up an ideal custom event and running it until you get the track down, and voilá. ......................... vet deathrceL1 wv Posted Feb 17, 2009, 12:35 am

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Quote: I'd like to even go further and propose that lap records can only be set in an actual race event I would have to agree with this. Having records set during qualification events might be acceptable, but again a person can do a bit of "setting-up" to give themselves an advantage. On the other hand: in real life I believe that most racing leagues allow qualifying round times can be lap records as well. . . whether this matters or not, I don't know. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 1:50 am

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 I've done both, I've "setup" to attain records after many trial and errors and I've attained records in actual races. I've also done most without using nitros/boosters. Should I or others lose these records just because people are not "interested" in doing them? Don't see the logic in that.. While others were scouting and having fun, I spent a few months going for records and my characters did not go up in skills unless in training centers, I received little money from those races and damaged many of my own cars in attempts. If you can vote to take them away, can you give me all my time back that I lost in going for them? Didn't think so. Can I vote to take away something you worked hard to attain in a scout that I can't get so we can be on an even level? So it took you months to get that Heavy laser because you had the right equipment and skilled characters to play the scout right and capture the weapon. Guess I can say I had no chance of getting that HL since I didn't have the right equipment and skilled characters so can "vote" to have you give it back so we can be on the same level again. What should give anyone the right to vote to take away my or others records just because people are less interested in them than I was. Might as well reset them every month so everyone will have to keep re-doing them until people are no longer "interested" in trying. PS: Sam, you may want to have the medals stack as they can cause the veiwing borders to stretch into oblivion like mine is doing. Looks good though, thanks PPS: Congrats to those that have beat some of my records recently. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 2:42 am Last edited Feb 17, 2009, 7:21 am by Lord Foul

Seiler Pestilence Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers Posts: 946 Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Seems to me that Nitro boosters don't work the same as they used to, which means it's still impossible to reach records set with them, since they reduce engine power in an event. ......................... vet deathrceL1 wv Posted Feb 17, 2009, 3:11 am

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 Nitro is only damaging when it is used too much. If used on the last lap the speed boost can cut as much as 10 seconds off the current lap time. CONTROLLING your ride should be your main concern when you hit that Nitro button! You have 2 or 3 game turns where your car is accelerating PAST the ghost car in the game making it VERY hard to make your car do what YOU want it to do. NO boosters should be allowed when counting lap times unless the cars classes are used when figuring lap records (ie: street, track, custom, etc.) ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Feb 17, 2009, 4:12 am

Seiler Pestilence Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers Posts: 946 Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Hmm, I do like the idea of different types of records....  Move all the current ones over to custom, but start a "Stock" class for race only vehicles... ......................... vet deathrceL1 wv Posted Feb 17, 2009, 4:34 am

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 I didn't realize that I couldn't vote if I chose to see the results first. You can chalk another one up for #2 if you like. But so far it looks like it's not going to matter much. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 4:44 am

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 Seiler said: Hmm, I do like the idea of different types of records....  Move all the current ones over to custom, but start a "Stock" class for race only vehicles... JimmyLogan...... can you suggest this to the Rules Council? ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Feb 17, 2009, 5:08 am

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 Sure - be glad to. JL ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 5:19 am

Shark Feeding Frenzy Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 476 Joined: May 5, 2007 I think the amount of records for each track is a bit silly. Adding more categories will just make the list UNSIGHTLY! Really it should be each track should have a stock car for that track that fits the courses "theme". Speedway would have a bullet with a 5L v8 rally with a 1.6 marley etc. Each track would have one record. This would make competition for records much more intense and make it fair to those without nitrous or hotrods. While still allowing tons of variation from track to track because different stock cars will be used. Right now holding all of those records shows more of an excess of free time and access to parts and chassis not available to everyone. If you really want record setting to be a pursuit that gets more interest you would like this idea. With only one record per track prizes could be SIGNIFICANTLY increased for setting a record. ......................... vet wv Posted Feb 17, 2009, 6:09 am Last edited Feb 17, 2009, 6:12 am by Shark

Kime Dennory Weasel Works Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: Aug 8, 2008 So give Lord Foul a trophy, call him a winner, and then reset the lap times. I'm sure he'll be right back up on the leaderboard. I know it'll be a hell of a lot easier for me to get the record I've already chalked up a second time. I know that course like the back of my hand and know exactly how to handle it (with the exception of one spot) with my chosen vehicle. -KD ......................... vet Posted Feb 17, 2009, 6:41 am

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 Kime Dennory said: So give Lord Foul a trophy, call him a winner, and then reset the lap times. I'm sure he'll be right back up on the leaderboard.  I know it'll be a hell of a lot easier for me to get the record I've already chalked up a second time.  I know that course like the back of my hand and know exactly how to handle it (with the exception of one spot) with my chosen vehicle. -KD Actually I probably won't as I will not use all that time again to get those records. Time is a valuable resource and having to redo all my records simply would not be worth it (60+ records takes a good while to accomplish). I earned them fairly and they could and have been beat recently. I would prefer Sam strip any record I have that nitro/booster was used in. I'd still have 90% of my records and other players would have to work to beat my base level records, just like I did over the past year. I just don't see what the big issue about some players wanting the records reset. What is the motivation to want to remove them in the first place. nitro.booster? Go buy them and use them and work for the records like everyone else did. So some can't be beat, that's why they are called records. I don't care if Alo has 200 and I can't beat them, there's plenty of tracks with records where no nitro/booster was used. Go there and practice to beat my records instead of coming here to try and get them taken away. Any record earned from not using nitro/booster should not be removed. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 7:41 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: Seems to me that Nitro boosters don't work the same as they used to, which means it's still impossible to reach records set with them, since they reduce engine power in an event. The only change was that the reduction to engine performance is now temporary. It's dirt rather than damage. The actual effect during the event hasn't changed. Quote: I would prefer Sam strip any record I have that nitro/booster was used in. So would I!  Unfortunately that data isn't recorded anywhere. I understand your problem with this suggestion, LF. I'm not really happy with taking away your records based on this vote, because obviously the major record-holders such as you and alo are going to be outnumbered in the vote by those that have little to lose.... in retrospect I probably shouldn't have put this to a vote without more discussion Shark has a good point about the number of records - it's a bit crazy already, and we don't really want even more. The point that only stock cars should be allowed is good too. OK here's another proposal: 1. The lap records are stored for ranges of engines rather than individual engines, e.g. there's a band covering "1L and below", another for "2L and below", etc. 2. We independently store records for:   a)  Stock cars (not allowed boosters/nitros)   b)  Custom cars (which are allowed boosters/nitros) 3. The current lap records become the (b) records (there will be merging of engines into bands so many will be deleted). Suggested bands: 1L and below 1.2L to 2L 2.5L to 3.2L 4L to 5L 5Lv8 and above This gives a total of 10 classes of record per-track (5 each for stock cars and custom cars). This is a reduction from the 15 per-track that we currently have. We could even squeeze it down to 4 bands and therefore 8 classes per track if we used: 1.2L and below 1.6L to 2.5L 3.2L to 5L 5Lv8 and above Or alternatively the classes could be done by chassis type rather than engine: Subcompacts Saloons and SUVs Musclecars Racers Outsized -- the problem with using chassis type is that there'd be some guesswork in retrofitting the current records into the classes ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 9:15 am Last edited Feb 17, 2009, 10:08 am by *sam*

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 Give Lord Foul and Alo ( and any others with a lot of records ) a posthumous mention on the records page, stating that all previous times had been destroyed due to major racing league blunder. I too can see why annoyance would ensue after months of record breaking to have them stripped, but also the problem seems to be the un obtainable chance of gaining new records ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Feb 17, 2009, 9:22 am

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 I disagree with changing the format in any way accept to have two classes, but not the two which you propose, Sam. The only class separation which I would like to see is cars with nitrous or rocket boosters in one class and cars without in another. If the records for the proper class for the event could be displayed on the loading screen it would be great. Reducing the number of engine groups which can receive awards seems silly to me. The only ones which I would take out, currently, is the 9.4 and the 0.6 simply because they are miserably slow in any chassis which they fit and setting records in them is a matter of running the race to set the records while knowing that you're doomed to lose. (edit: But that's hardly necessary if no other changes are implemented) I've much enjoyed the current format for race record keeping as well as perusing said records during the loading screen's appearance. To reduce the number of engine classes accepted would be to reduce the number of cars which have a shot at a record, (anything with a 1.2 or 1.6, for example, wouldn't have much chance against a couple of the cars which can fit a 1.8 or 2.0) which is exactly one of the things that we're trying to avoid. Taking custom cars (meaning: cars owned by a gang and used in pro events) and putting them into a separate category even if they don't devices which promote faster acceleration takes out some of the strategy of building them and, again, makes them require a booster to set a record. Thinking and thinking on this the only acceptable answer to me has not changed: Wipe the records. Either completely disallowing boosters in record times or putting them in their own class is perfectly acceptable to me. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 12:54 pm Last edited Feb 17, 2009, 12:54 pm by The Paranoid Tourist

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: anything with a 1.2 or 1.6, for example, wouldn't have much chance against a couple of the cars which can fit a 1.8 or 2.0 I don't think that's true. The chassis/engine combo has a huge effect. Take a look at some of the racetracks and you'll often see the times posted by small engines are very close to, or even better than, the times posted by the larger ones. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 1:00 pm

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Looking back through the records I suppose you're right. . . to a point. There are still those 1 engine gaps where the next engine up beats the previous one by a couple of seconds. Simply put: I disagree with lumping engine classes together at all and for any reason. (unless, of course, it would mean the demise of the entire game. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Feb 17, 2009, 1:27 pm

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