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Beta bugs, more like a tick and a gnat really

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 Sick of seeing the noobish topic: 'title' Here's some more for ya sam. Some may not be bugs, but I'm not sure if the actions are what you intended, so I'm putting them here: 1. No option to rename the squad. Also, what happens with 2 squads of exact same name? 2. I modified a car at Jake's and was able to take it into battle well before the ready date. Wow, I guess that's it! The other stuff on my list is suggestions which I will post there. one more: This may not be a bug, but if a lorry can carry 6 people, how come 6 people can't shoot? Are 2 people in cargo or something? And if so, couldn't you theoretically carry a lot more? ok, the noob needs to sort his list better apparently Spectating loot: is this not possible just for privacy? It would be cool to see the booty when watching. Surrenderred cars: I would think that they would automatically stop shooting upon surrender but they don't. Isn't that the point of a surrender, knowing you have 'captured' that vehicle? On a related note, the npcs tend to not give up until their engine is completely destroyed. Very difficult to salvage cars but maybe that was your intent. ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Mar 7, 2007, 5:53 pm Last edited Mar 7, 2007, 6:04 pm by *Speedealer*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: 1. No option to rename the squad. Also, what happens with 2 squads of exact same name? I'll add a rename option. Two squads with the same name wouldn't cause any gameplay issues, but it's not ideal either, you're right. I'll fix that. Quote: 2. I modified a car at Jake's and was able to take it into battle well before the ready date. Thanks, I have fixed that. I had forgotten to check that in the squads spawning code. Quote: if a lorry can carry 6 people, how come 6 people can't shoot? Are 2 people in cargo or something? And if so, couldn't you theoretically carry a lot more? 6 people should be able to shoot.. assuming 6 guns have targets in their firing arcs. It must be a bug. And yes, the limit of 6 is too low for large vehicles, but I ran out of space on the vehicle GUI. (=lame excuse) Quote: Spectating loot: is this not possible just for privacy? It would be cool to see the booty when watching. Yeah, there's no particular reason for having the 'non winners' unable to view the looting process. It didn't occur to me that they'd be interested, but you're right. Quote: Surrenderred cars: I would think that they would automatically stop shooting upon surrender but they don't. Isn't that the point of a surrender, knowing you have 'captured' that vehicle? The intention at the moment is that the whole squad surrenders when their last member does so, but until then no-one has actually surrendered, they have merely declared that they'd like to. I could change this, but we'd need to be careful not to let players exploit it - when you surrender, you'd have your guns and engine disabled, for example. And maybe even firing at surrendered vehicles would have to be disallowed altogether: this is pretty unrealistic though. Quote: the npcs tend to not give up until their engine is completely destroyed. Very difficult to salvage cars but maybe that was your intent. Again, it's a realism thing as much as anything. At what point would you surrender, knowing that you lose the car, its cargo, and quite likely even its characters* if you do so..? * regarding what happens to characters with no car after the battle - that's not fully implemented yet. What I'm thinking is that 'gates of' missions will let them get back to town automatically, while pure wilderness missions will either kill them or take them out of your gang and leave them back at Dex's. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 10:20 am Last edited Mar 8, 2007, 10:54 am by *sam*

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 Quote: Quote: Surrenderred cars: I would think that they would automatically stop shooting upon surrender but they don't. Isn't that the point of a surrender, knowing you have 'captured' that vehicle? The intention at the moment is that the whole squad surrenders when their last member does so, but until then no-one has actually surrendered, they have merely declared that they'd like to. I could change this, but we'd need to be careful not to let players exploit it - when you surrender, you'd have your guns and engine disabled, for example. And maybe even firing at surrendered vehicles would have to be disallowed altogether: this is pretty unrealistic though. Quote: the npcs tend to not give up until their engine is completely destroyed. Very difficult to salvage cars but maybe that was your intent. Again, it's a realism thing as much as anything. At what point would you surrender, knowing that you lose the car, its cargo, and quite likely even its characters* if you do so..? * regarding what happens to characters with no car after the battle - that's not fully implemented yet. What I'm thinking is that 'gates of' missions will let them get back to town automatically, while pure wilderness missions will either kill them or take them out of your gang and leave them back at Dex's. not sure how this would be exploited, unless you mean that after a vehicle surrenders, one would stop shooting at it to preserver the booty? I don't mind, I'll keep pumping rounds in until they're not breathing. Or at least not drive in front of the firing arc. Realistically I would think a gang member would surrender after some blood loss, shattered hip and two missing toes, but then again, there's no shortage of gang members at Dex's. Hmmm... ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 4:57 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: not sure how this would be exploited, unless you mean that after a vehicle surrenders, one would stop shooting at it to preserver the booty? What I meant was, you could 'pretend' to surrender so that the NPCs stopped shooting at you, and then you could make a run for it or attack them when they had their backs turned. I guess another way it could work is just to have your car removed from the 3D game when you surrender..? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 7:22 pm Last edited Mar 8, 2007, 7:23 pm by *sam*

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 oh! I see what you mean now. In my mind it always meant you couldn't operate the vehicle or shoot any longer. I don't know if you need to change it though, I'll just assume they will take a shot at me if they can. ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 7:28 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Does anyone else have an opinion on this? I can see merits to the approach of having the car disabled when you surrender. It would also be necessary to stop other people from shooting at it..? Another possibility this raises is one of characters having a braveness 'skill'. A cowardly character will tend to surrender even before you want them to. Not sure if that's a good idea or not... the issue is whether you are roleplaying 'as' the character or not. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 8:08 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 So, I would like you to consider my "morale" suggestion. When the gang leader is present, characters are less likely to surrender. This must be also bound to the "management" parameter we discussed briefy in an other thread. I have been thinking of a "stress" system to simulate fear in computer games - and for a FPS one. Player would lose control of his character if the stress level was superior to his own courage. Character's stress parameter is modified by different factors (numbers are for reference and are cumulative): - he is near a combat zone (-1) - he is being targetted/under fire (-3) - has lost contact with his team (-2) - has lost contact with leader (-3) - team member is wounded (-2) - team member is dead (-3) - team/player is out numbered (-2) - ammo low (-3) - opposite side has superior fire power (heavy weapons for example - or it can be a vehicle in a better shape) (-3) - fatigue (-1) - wounded lightly (-1) - wounded moderatly (-3) - wounded severly (-5) - starvation, etc. (-2) - lack of healing (-1) - team is close (+3) - leader is present (+5) - wounded opponent (+2) - dead opponent (+4) - team as superior fire power (+3) - team is out numbering opponents (+4) - full ammo (+2) - character is leader (+10) - medic present (+2) - experience/veteran status (+1/point) It is common in wargames to have units fleeing during a fight. Though, experience must compensate cowardice. That's complex to set up, but that's good. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Mar 8, 2007, 9:34 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Nice detail, vikking. I think everyone here is a fan of detail like that  :-) Yes, I was referring to what happens in wargames when I suggested the character makes a surrender decision on his own. I think this approach could add a nice twist to the game. It could also be used in arena combats and deathraces. But the question remains... do we want our Darkwind characters to have 'minds of their own': are we playing as their managers or are we playing as them? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 9:43 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 *sam* said: Nice detail, vikking. I think everyone here is a fan of detail like that  :-) Thanks.  Quote: But the question remains... do we want our Darkwind characters to have 'minds of their own': are we playing as their managers or are we playing as them? Regarding the fame and reputation system you integrated, and my suggestions on integrating gang leader, the player would be more like a manager. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Mar 8, 2007, 9:58 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Yep. Do we need a poll on this decision, or do we make a decision ourselves? I think it's an important gameplay decision. I think I'm happy to go with adding all this stuff and making the player into a 'manager'. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 10:02 pm Last edited Mar 8, 2007, 10:02 pm by *sam*

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 very cool vikk! If we want to act as the player instead of manager of each particular gang member, all that stuff could still factor in, but the character would still be acting under the hand of the player, just severley handicapped if the player chose to still make the character stay and fight. For example, a character could have a perfect shot lined up, but if he was afraid for too many reasons (dead teammates, isolated from gang,etc), maybe his chance of hitting are greatly diminished. Like he's too shakey to shoot (similar to a jammed gun). And the ghost car starts acting erratic or what not for the driver. ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 10:04 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 I will come with a balanced solution: Player act as a manager for the gang but has full control over the gang leader and sub-leader. I think it should suit everyone. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Mar 8, 2007, 10:20 pm

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 hmmm....what if your gang leader or gang sub-leader isn't in the battle? Personally, I'd rather have control over all my characters than let the npc drive one of my cars into another one or whatever. No offense to the AI there, they just don't necessarily know my playbook (or lack thereof) ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 10:47 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Quote: Personally, I'd rather have control over all my characters than let the npc drive one of my cars into another one or whatever. No offense to the AI there, they just don't necessarily know my playbook (or lack thereof) You missed the point. You will continue to handle the character until it reaches the limit of his own courage and flee from the battle field. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Mar 8, 2007, 10:50 pm Last edited Mar 8, 2007, 10:51 pm by *viKKing*

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 Oh, gotcha. Just so they're high limits ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Mar 8, 2007, 10:55 pm

Black Mamba Mambas Maniacs Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: Oct 23, 2006 I like the idea of gang members having a morale level. Right now it is a bit too easy for a vehicle to stay in a fight and get pounded into nothing. As much as I tend to throw my gang members lives away, I think it would add a bit more danger to fights if they might break and run if I asked too much of them. Also when exiting vehicles is added to the game you could make it so when a vehicle surrenders its concious occupants get out and run away, that would make it real easy to tell who was still in the fight. ooohh, getting the door for Domino's. Will think on this and post more in a bit. ......................... vet deathrce1 ped1 paintball wv Posted Mar 9, 2007, 12:11 am

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 When an NPC driver has 'decided' to surrender, engine and weapon controls should be disabled for the driver and any other occupants. This would preserve the car for salvage/looting. IMHO, the driver is the 'leader/captain' while in the car. If he says surrender, you surrender. I have had NPCs' surrender because the driver was shot up or dying, then the gunner jumps over and takes control driving and firing away. Like Speed, I want to control ALL my characters in combat. I don't want them surrendering just because I can't be seen on the other side of a sand dune. One problem doing the morale level for the NPC 'Trade Convoy', is when armed escorts turn to defend the 'Trader Convoy' the Traders continue on the road well out of sight of their defenders fighting we users. (Tron speak) Some rule to differentiate from defending/escorting NPC units and pure combat/non-escort unit morale/surrender would be helpful. Just so surrendering units have no control over their weapons or engines. ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Mar 29, 2007, 7:52 am Last edited Mar 29, 2007, 8:12 am by JD_Basher

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 JD- I can see your reasoning here. I think it would be necessary to also stop a player car from driving or firing when it had surrendered, in this case. As it stands right now, although a driver wishes to surrender, nobody actually surrenders until the whole gang is ready. Announcing your wish to surrender is purely for information of your squad and the enemy squad- it's not an actual surender. The reason I have your characters auto-surrender is otherwise there is no mechanism to force you to end the game, even if your characters are all dead. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 29, 2007, 11:55 am

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 Quote: JD- I can see your reasoning here. I think it would be necessary to also stop a player car from driving or firing when it had surrendered, in this case. Absolutely! This rule is good for NPCs' and players alike. If you surrender, 'no driving---no shooting!' Although, switching NPC and player drivers should be allowed before the driver is completely incapacitated. (Maybe after the first life threatening concussion or bullet/shrapnel hit.) Quote: The reason I have your characters auto-surrender is otherwise there is no mechanism to force you to end the game, even if your characters are all dead. If both driver and occupants are incapacitated = auto-surrender. If driver expires or voluntarily leaves position before surrendering, gunner can take over. I just feel that ANY surrendered cars (player or NPC)should not be allowed to move or fire again in the current game. ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Mar 29, 2007, 5:27 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Maybe a gunner could shoot at a driver that would be willing to surrender: "no coward in my team" (bang) ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Mar 29, 2007, 8:04 pm

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