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No more scouting., What's the secret?

Whiskey Whiskey Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 691 Joined: Sep 19, 2008 I was adding up numbers last night after my latest scouting run. With only rare exceptions, every scout I have been on has cost me more in repairs, reloads, and replacements than I have gotten in loot. Even where an individual scouting run made a small profit, the profit was more than offset by the large losses in another scout. If it wasn't for the steady income I get from races, deathraces, and combats, my gang would be something like $250,000 negative. Right now I have two landys and two apaches sitting in the garage, one of each needing repairs, armor, new weapons, and tires. And I don't have the cash to fix them. So back to the SS tracks I go to earn more money. The other problem is that everytime I get a character above 35 in a skill, they get killed off. If they get a nickname, I can be sure they will be next to die. If damage penetrates armor, I don't even have to look at the text to know which one of my gangers took the hit. The guy with the most skills just bought the farm. I would like to get out and see more of Evan but getting killed everytime I wander outside the gates puts a big wet blanket over that. So, what's the secret? I see players with gangers that have skills in the 100+ range, in multiple areas. I see players that have so much money that they can afford to give away Apaches like party favors. They sure didn't get there from scouting if my experience is any indication. Running missions? With a scout-25 and my best gunner just over a 30? Doesn't look too promising. Besides, I'll have to win a bunch at the track and arena to buy/build a cargo hauler or fast taxi. I tried travel. Running a vehicle back and forth between SS and Elms to train up my scouts. Everybody died. Lost a couple of off road buggies a Dustup and an Apache before I quit trying travel. So, no more scouting for me. I'll just sit in SS and play the track/arena events and dream of traveling to far off places. ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 25, 2008, 3:17 pm

BWGunner DriveByRomance Autodueller Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 413 Joined: Mar 22, 2008 In my experience scouting can be dicey, so here's what I do. If I solo I run. I have a couple cars that do nothing but drive back and forth to a nearby camp. Big motor, little car. Run fast. There's a common misperception in DarkWind that you have to kill the enemy to win. Not so. Surviving is winning. You gain skills by shooting and driving, not by killing...it isn't D&D. But if combat is what I crave I almost always do it with a group. With my current lot of characters (the first group after 9 months to have any skills to speak of) we are ballistics and support. I ask others what to do and try to not bomb the crap out of my partners. Generally I come away with at least one car and a modest profit. Somewhere around $10k, sometimes less, sometimes more. Once I scored a Heavy Gatling and I should have sold it, because money makes money, and you can't get rich with no cash. But no, I put it in an apache, got ambushed, and lost it. Know your limits. If you have low characters, drive smaller and cheaper cars. Don't risk as much. Save a little money here and there, and suddenly you have enough to afford one carefully thought-out car. Like a musclecar with a big motor and a laser or some other high-end weapon. Even then, the strategy is to run and shoot, run and shoot. Only go back for the kill when they are weak and wounded and divided away from the pack. I can't emphasize enough the value of running away. I frequently take my Rear Guard with two CGLs out and just drive away, shooting behind me. I don't score any cars, but I build skill and pay little...and I'm learning maps and cars. The key is to survive. ......................... vet wv cont Posted Nov 25, 2008, 3:48 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 I agree with BW here... Don't go into each one as a life or death situation, but pick your battles. You mentioned "blue text." If my armor starts to get low, I turn. Also, don't run straight into the fight (I don't know if that's what you're doing or not) but use terrain to your advantage. Also, don't waste ammo... Keep an eye on the "to hit" and only shoot when you have a real chance to hit. I'll sometimes fire at "not much" if I'm sitting still or moving slow AND the enemy is moving closer. Again, pick your battles... Scout in a group as there is safety in numbers. As for travel, I suggest using something with NO weapons and slim armor - keep the CR down. If you're using Apaches for travel you're asking for trouble. I like Voyagers (Eliminators) for travel. I use 15 unit tanks, A armor 12/12/12/12/6/6 and a 3.2 engine. Use OR tyres and don't be afraid to go offroad. Just those dunes and take that 1 point of damage to the front - much better than getting hit with a CR or MMG... Pick a camp close to SS and travel there and back. Less travel time than going to Elms so you'll train faster. Also, as BW says, you don't have to "win" to gain skill. Use a fast car with a couple of weapons and go on a solo scout. Run away till there's only one enemy (they'll disappear at 500m) and turn and fight it, if you're comfortable with it. If you're not confident with your own dogfighting skill as a player, get more experience in a group. Hope that helps... JL ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Nov 25, 2008, 4:04 pm

Whiskey Whiskey Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 691 Joined: Sep 19, 2008 Thanks for the advice guys. However, I think the problem maybe that I am cursed to not succeed in the wilderness. I've tried running away. That is how I lost two off-road buggies and a Dustup. All three running unarmed with light armor. Three different travel encounters. I get spawns at 100 meters, three pirates (CR 300+ to my CR 80 or so) to my one travel car, and before I can get behind terrain for cover they have blown me away with RL and HMG fire. That's when I tried the Apache for travel to see if more armor might help. Nope. It didn't. I will say that on the scouts where I made a small profit, it was usually on solo scouts. Until I get 5 bandits to my single car. They are coming down the hill at me head on from 120 meters and me at the bottom of a valley uphill in all directions. Go out with others on a multi-car scout? Fastest death on that was an outing with the Mad Mad Crushers. I have one Apache, Mike has 3 Apaches and a mortar lorry. Bandits opened up from about 150 meters. I take 6 RL and 3 HMG hits into my front armor by the third turn of the scout. Engine destroyed, front weapons destroyed, and crew unconscious and bleeding to death. I can get on the race track and make shots at 200 meters with a skill-15 gunner while drifting through a corner. I get out in the wilderness and my skill-43 gunner (may he rest in pieces) can't hit at 40 meters in a straight shot with both cars going 30 mph. I get up on a hill so I can shoot down at their top armor and they blow holes in my bottom armor and kill me. Nope. I've had enough of that frustration. It is racetrack and arena for me. ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 25, 2008, 4:31 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 TKWPrime said: I've tried running away.  That is how I lost two off-road buggies and a Dustup. These may be good off road vehicles, but not fast runners... ANY vehicle can run offroad with enough armor to take a couple of dings - doing 60 or 80 in a dustup (and it takes a LONG time to get that high) is not enough to outrun a vampire... Quote: That's when I tried the Apache for travel to see if more armor might help.  Nope.  It didn't. Same thing - too slow to accelerate... Quote: Nope.  I've had enough of that frustration.  It is racetrack and arena for me. Understood. I'm not an expert by any means but you're more than welcome to go with me sometime... I can give you pointers "in game" if you'd like... Course it could be karma. JL ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Nov 25, 2008, 4:45 pm

Kazzy DeathFromAbove Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: Dec 25, 2007 you might wanna drop back to driving sedans and muscle cars so the repairs will be cheaper. hell, even the rentals will do. i also advise to wait till your gangers get spec'd, especially your gunners before you solo scout. if u intend to solo, have a scout thats at least at lvl 1 nego or a 40 skilled and go the max scout distance. hope that helps ......................... vet paintball Posted Nov 25, 2008, 4:52 pm Last edited Nov 25, 2008, 4:52 pm by Kazzy

BWGunner DriveByRomance Autodueller Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 413 Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Sunfire and Phoenix. ......................... vet wv cont Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:07 pm

Marrkos 88 MPH Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,711 Joined: Mar 28, 2006 1. Don't pay for gang members. Wait for your free recruit.  The quality will be higher, and you save money. 2. Sell all your loot. Unless you come across something you've never seen before, sell everything either to Jake or to other players.  Only in very rare cases will it be cost-effective to repair a loot car.  Note, I said 'seen before' not 'owned before'.  If other players have something, I can almost guarantee you will either find it in the wilderness at some point, or be able to buy it on the market (player or NPC).  So there's no reason to keep that 20% chassis Vampire, and pay 35k to fix it. 3. Traveling to build scout skill should be done in fast cars. The Off-road Buggy and the Dustup are the best scouting vehicles, but that doesn't matter when you are just trying to get from Point A to Point B.  Those vehicles help when looking for enemies, and when you are traveling you aren't doing that.  You're going to find them, of course, because your scout is low, but when that happens you want to be able to get away. ......................... vet wv community Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:13 pm

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 That scout was a bit humbling. They opened up and concentarted fire on you TKW. I was able to turn and run but if you remember I was able to get them separated and beat them. It took a LONG time but it happened and that was a perfect example of how to win against unsurmountable odds. My secret is simply scout in LARGE numbers. Trying to profit on every scout is impossible. JD Basher plays this game by only travels. He just runs missions and does very well. He uses mercenary cars which I think have a big advantage being heavy and able to stick to the ground around corners. A 3.2L in a mercenary gets it moving nicely. Running missions means you just run, plain and simple. Armour up the rear a little more than the front, go without weapons, and run like hell. After a time your scouts will be super scouts and there will be no more close encounters and ambushes. I send scouts with less than 10 skill to and from my camp and have not gotten ambushed. Try running missions or just running food from somerset to gateway and fuel from gateway to somerset. or food from somerset to elmsfield and then water from elmsfield to somerset. Or if you stick to only town events you could win all the leagues and be our somerset champion. our current town event winner we would like to see changed. ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:15 pm

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 I still consider myself to be a "noob" but have been running missions with voyagers, Phoenix's, Windsor II and lately a couple of box vans. I always run with one vehicle unarmed with full rear Armour, and so far have had no problems even with the box vans. i use oversize engines 4l in the voyagers, which are exposed but give the vehicle that bit more acceleration, pick your start point on the map carefully, beware of choosing of road, unless you get a height advantage, and always have the revs on max. Maybe I'm just gifted lol but have had nothing but success using these points, that includes runs to elms gateway and camps ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:18 pm

Whiskey Whiskey Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 691 Joined: Sep 19, 2008 Kazzy, I would love to have a ganger with a specialty. Now, if I can just figure out how to get one with any skill over 45 before they get killed I would be ecstatic. Ach! I'm just being an old man with a sour mood. I'll give scouting a try again. After I have been doing nothing but racing and training for a couple of months. And gotten some gangers with specialisms. And built up a really big bank account. ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:20 pm

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 one other point, watch as many of the solo scouts as possible espeacilly Ninesticks with his muscle cars, watch where they head for on certain maps ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:22 pm

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 we all have our way to win scouts. just keep trying an youll find your niche ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:48 pm

Victor New Cal Rangers Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 151 Joined: Jan 10, 2008 In scouting and real estate, there are three important things to consider; "location, location, location". Having cover is obviously important, but there are often times when the ledge you're parked on will block your shots more than your enemies'. I still make errors on that count myself, and bet everyone does, occasionally. Timing of visibility is also important. If you set up at a bend in the road to catch enemies as they come around it, the inside of the curve will keep you out of the enemies' firing arcs longer than the outside. If you're closer to the curve, you might want to be a bit farther back, to avoid being the first target the enemy sights in on. If you've got more facings toward enemies than facings toward friendlies, that can also be a warning sign. Once the shooting starts, you still want to limit your exposure. If you've got enemy on more than two facings, start figuring out where you're going to go, if you haven't already. If you've got enemies on 3 or more facings, you should be heading there a couple turns ago. It takes a bit of practice to figure out where you should and shouldn't be, and "practice" can mean losing cars and crews. Make those mental notes, or even write them down. You may suffer casualties, but the only real way to "Lose" is not learning from what you do wrong. And sadly, you can do that even if you "win" the fight. Teammates might see things you don't, and if the consensus is "bad luck", that may mean such situations are a good time to call a timeout and/or ask for help (aka "HLEP!") sooner. With the above, you're still going to get shot at, and still going to take damage. I'll offer one last bit of advice that might help there. Usually, you want to concentrate as much fire on a single enemy as possible, to demo them faster. If you're taking heavy fire, and can't run (or can't run fast enough), split your weapons across as many of the enemies shooting at you as possible. This will reduce their accuracy somewhat, and make it harder for them to maneuver, depending on what you're firing. If they break off, let them go... they'll certainly be back, but use that hard-won breathing room to deal with more immediate threats, rather than drawing more fire. ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 25, 2008, 10:09 pm

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 Darth and I made quite a bit o cash when we started. I let him chase the traders while I killed the escorts. If you'd like to be with me in my mega scouts there would be a lot less chance of the same thing happening again. you could bring along a box van and loot as well and only have one other car that could be the sniper car. I'll do the rest. That should help you get back on your feet ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 26, 2008, 1:43 am

4saken The 4saken Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,282 Joined: Jan 1, 2008 i haven't seen you scout so i can't offer much advice but i would advise for now taking a single car and travelling with a vet. let him know you've been having trouble and get any and all advice and pointers from them you can based on them seeing you play. get advice from more than one vet, as people have different play styles. as it stands, you don't have the characters to support you safely going out by yourself. although there are ways to do so, i don't think they would benefit you. i don't really think i would advise on a musclecar. musclecar combat is tricky and you pay dearly when you make a mistake. given a generic vehicle i would recommend either a merc with HMG/gat or HMG/mg if you can't find a gat. that will hold 3 crew, be cheap to get and repair, and will give you a good balance of CR, speed, defense, maneuverability, and "lootiness". it can also be manned with all newbs. the driver doesnt even have to have any skills, really, and the other guys can be fresh out of dexters. when your heavy gunner finally makes 50 skill i recommend getting him rapid reload. your options from there increase greatly. once you get back on your feet try running 2 vehicles in a scout. you'll still need to travel with others to learn and use the benefit of their scout character. i don't really recommend 2 of the mercs, though. they are a bit slippery when cornering and running 2 at once can become a handful - best to focus on one. once you can reliably run 2 or more cars and have decently skilled characters you can run in a small group on your own, but that will be a little down the road. right now you need to get over "the hump". there's plenty of people here who'll be glad to give you a hand and help you find what works for you. i myself have no problem scouting alone with about 3-5 cars and in the glory days of scouting i could make $40k per scout. others do missions or trade, neither of which i recommend until you have better characters. and some of course like to scout in huge groups. there is safety there, and money to be made, but not much learning for you i'm afraid. keep trying, you'll be fine. just don't keep doing... whatever it was you were doing wrong! the real trick is to know what that is though! ......................... vet combatL1 wv1,0,0 Posted Nov 26, 2008, 2:18 am

Whiskey Whiskey Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 691 Joined: Sep 19, 2008 Thanks to everyone for their advice and especially to those of you who have offered support in various forms. I really do appreciate it all. But, I am going to stick to my plan of not scouting for a while and focus on building up my skills and bank account through race, dr, and combat. I've just had too many consecutive encounters where there was no escape and/or by the time the pirates surrendered there wasn't enough left of them to pay for the fuel and ammo I burned. When I believe the bad ju-ju has moved on, I will come back out and try scouting again. ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 26, 2008, 3:53 am

Kime Dennory Weasel Works Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: Aug 8, 2008 Incidentally, I don't suggest a muscle car for scouting. Especially one-car scouting. I DO suggest it for courier runs. Sunrise or Phoenix, at least for me, is a pretty much guaranteed getaway between Somerset and Elmsfield. -Kd ......................... vet Posted Nov 27, 2008, 3:41 am

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 depends on what muscle car. I use windsor IIs and windsor Is. with a 3.2L V8 you could consider it a muscle car because it flys through the dunes and climbs very nicely! evan a 3.2L will move the windsor quite effectively. ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 27, 2008, 7:14 pm

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Musclecars work fine for one player scouting, the trick is to use them in pairs - this enables you to cover one if it gets in to too much trouble and can keep you in the fight if one of your cars gets demoralised or you surrender it to save the crew. Additionally you can train a scout, a mech and two gunners at the same time (in fact don't be surprised if your mech and scout gets specs in gunnery before their primary skills). As others have already stated, pick your fights - both in terrain and odds. Take the set-up time to have a really good look around at the map - look for a position that will allow you to run a bit (to stretch out the enemy cars) and a height/bend advantage. I think these rules apply equally to musclecars and suvs. I am more than happy to lend you a car if you want to come along on a smaller scout. Don't worry about 'fancy' weapons etc, chances are you don't have the gangers to get the most use from them and the 'normal' weapons are far easier/cheaper to get hold of. At the risk of stating the obvious, the best way to turn a decent profit is to take little or no damage - this goes back to picking your spot for the fight and hopefully taking your targets one at a time. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Nov 27, 2008, 7:43 pm

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