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Scripts v.210, pvp features

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,782 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 This patch brings in some features I have been working on to make pvp encounters more feasible. Note that if you have a positive reputation you can still not be attacked by a player squad near Somerset. * There's a new 'monitor gates' feature in the lobby that allows you to see squads who are leaving, arriving or scouting. * If you select a squad from this 'monitor gates' list you can delay their event spawn for a couple of minutes while you muster an attack squad and set it scouting. Only subscribers can do this since we don't want casual visitors from entertaining themselves by time-griefing us. * Several features on the squad webpage are now active: CR balancing, specified 'target squad', and 'auto attack target squad'. All are explained in the community comments I have posted beside them on the squad page. * The chance of successfully avoiding a pvp attack is now much higher if you’re arriving into town rather than leaving it or going scouting: this is to avoid “vulturing” attacks as well as probably being realistic. You will now also receive a message in the lobby when you successfully avoid a pvp encounter. So you know who is hunting you... ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 1:19 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2008, 1:21 pm by *sam*

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 should raise PvP interest. now we need to have a wiki entry with PvP etiquette ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2008, 2:27 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,027 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 and watch out for lord humungous hehe ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,2 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 2:36 pm

Ivan Kerensky Les Loups Gris Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: Mar 1, 2008 *sam* said: . Only subscribers can do this since we don't want casual visitors from entertaining themselves by time-griefing us. But it is perfectly okay for subscribers to time-grief each other ? Delay for several minutes a scouting event is a nasty trick and can be easily abused... "Hey, I dont like you so I will delay each and every scouting event I saw with your name on.." And what about the return ? will you be able to know there wont be a return so you can go to bed or could you be attacked by another player before your arrival ? what if you didn't anticipated the arrival and the opponent is not online ? ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2008, 2:44 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,670 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Interesting. Who is the Lord Humungus I hear yas talking about? And why do I feel like there is a target on my back all of a sudden? hehe ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 2:44 pm

Ivan Kerensky Les Loups Gris Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: Mar 1, 2008 I am also concerned about the CR balancing. It make the dedicated scouting vehicule a hinderance for the traveller/scout and a bonus for the PvPer... By having un-armed scout buggy or duster at last position in his car list the PvPer is ensured to have it away from the combat but will still benefit from his scout and his bonus to find the other squad, the target on the other hand cant drop his scout so is starting with a penalty in CR... ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2008, 2:53 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,782 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: But it is perfectly okay for subscribers to time-grief each other ? I didn't say that. Quote: Delay for several minutes a scouting event is a nasty trick and can be easily abused... "Hey, I dont like you so I will delay each and every scouting event I saw with your name on.." I am actually logging the times that this delay is applied (it's always less than 3 minutes by the way), and who does it. If necessary (and I think it probably won't be necessary) each player could have  a maximum number of uses of this 'delay card' per day etc. Each squad can only be delayed once per event, of course, no matter how many people use their 'delay card' on it. Quote: It make the dedicated scouting vehicule a hinderance for the traveller/scout and a bonus for the PvPer... By having un-armed scout buggy or duster at last position in his car list the PvPer is ensured to have it away from the combat but will still benefit from his scout and his bonus to find the other squad, the target on the other hand cant drop his scout so is starting with a penalty in CR... I hadn't thought of that. I'm sure we could come up with some extra rules, such as: your squad's scouting skill is re-evaluated based on the cars that are left, after the CR balancing has been applied. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 3:51 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2008, 3:52 pm by *sam*

Kime Dennory Weasel Works Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: Aug 8, 2008 Add me to the list of people who think this is perfectly reasonable, if terrifying. -KD ......................... vet Posted Oct 2, 2008, 4:12 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,782 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Just a copy-and-paste from a PM I sent to someone with concerns: Please don't react too quick about the pvp stuff! I am committed to supporting both pvp and non-pvp players. When we see how things are turning out we can discuss changes that are needed to help protect non-pvp-ers. There is already, of course, a pvp-free zone around SS, plus the ability to pay a bounty to escape any pvp event unharmed. And if your scouts are good you can often avoid pvp encounters entirely. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 4:17 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,782 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I have actually gotten to know the flavour of the DW community better than probably anyone else, over the last 2.5 years.. and I think we're very unlikely to get griefing-style pvp play. Anyone that tries it will end up getting slaughtered by the rest of the players. I think supporting pvp will however allow the natural factions and vendettas that have been simmering to find a way to vent themselves. And this will actually bring an excellent source of challenging gameplay to those involved. As well as adding more dynamic to the economy, money-sinks etc. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 4:22 pm

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 I am incredibly excited by this new development. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2008, 4:58 pm

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 8, 2008 I posted a thread, and there was a long discussion, about this a few weeks ago.... but this might be a very good time to re-evaluate a distinction between demoralizing and surrendering. Losing characters is clearly the single biggest obstacle to PvP. If there was some mechanism to help insure their safety (but not guarantee it?) after getting beat down in a fight, that might go a long way towards encouraging PvP. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2008, 5:37 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2008, 5:52 pm by Jety

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,670 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 When you surrender in a PvP battle, the event is over. The opponent cant keep shooting at you. You lose your cars, and, if a Gates encounter, your guys get home 100% of the time. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 5:46 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,782 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: Losing characters is clearly the single biggest obstacle to PvP. If there was some mechanism to help insure their safety (but not guarantee it?) after getting beat down in a fight, that might go a long way towards encouraging PvP. You're quite right Jety. What ideas have been suggested for this? Being able to greately increase the chance of walking home alive, if you make a $ payment to "the local NPC bandits" perhaps? (Assuming your injuries from the combat weren't fatal, of course). When I add animals and giant insects, the plan is to actually have 'walking home missions' rather than the current after-event system for characters on the losing side. But that could be a while away yet. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 5:46 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2008, 5:50 pm by *sam*

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 8, 2008 A good way to approach this might be to create a way for a player to offer a bounty midcombat. After the fighting has gone on a bit, and a clear winner is emerging, they might say "You're defeated. For $50,000 I'll let you live and keep your gangers and vehicles" If the aggressor is hellbent on slaughter then they don't have to offer any ransom demands. If they're just in it for the piracy, they can extort money without having to seriously hurt the opponent. The guy who is losing can maybe offer cash if the winning party will let him go. On top of all this and maybe better, would be a way to also invlove the vehicles in the extortion/bribery negotiation. "I'll give you my laser osprey if you'll let the rest of my cars and gangers go free" etc I know this would be a little bit of work, but I think the payoff would be huge in terms of getting people involved with PvP, not feeling like it's a huge all or nothing prospect, and letting "gentleman pirates" PvP as well as bloodthirsty mutants. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2008, 5:49 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2008, 5:51 pm by Jety

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,782 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: A good way to approach this might be to create a way for a player to offer a bounty midcombat. After the fighting has gone on a bit, and a clear winner is emerging, they might say "You're defeated. For $50,000 I'll let you live and keep your gangers and vehicles Yeah, I actually took note of that before, but I need to think about it some more. It messes up the current looting system somewhat. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 5:51 pm

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 8, 2008 Here's what you could do. 1) Players agree to a negotiation session. Combat freezes. 2) A modified looting screen comes up where players can put items on the table, including cash and vehicles involved in the current combat. 3) If both players are satisfied with the transfer of goods and click an 'accept' button then combat is ended and goods change hands. 4) If a player 'rejects' the negotiation then combat resumes. 5) If no accord is reached then combat ends as normal, and the normal looting screen comes up. [edit] This addresses an overall resolution to pvp combat, but does not exactly address surrendering/player survivability. For example: 2 squads of 5 buzzer each square off. One team has a buzzer that's been breached and wants to surrender it to save the gangers inside, but also wants to keep fighting with his other four because he thinks he can still win. Then again... maybe the threat of gangers being executed is what it is - fantastic leverage. You negotiate to save their lives or they die. You can't have it both ways; save them and keep fighting also. I think the net effect of this system would be that even in large scale engagements, there would be far fewer casualties. I think a typical exchange would be like this. "You've breached one of my buzzers. I don't want the guys to die, so I'll give you one of my healthy remaining buzzers to call it all off. It's a pretty win-win deal. The loser keeps his guys and some of his buzzers. The winner gets a healthy buzzer as a trophy. Neither side has had to commit to a massive destruction of resources by fighting it down to the last buzzer standing. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2008, 5:55 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2008, 6:33 pm by Jety

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,605 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 You always have the option in game to make a chat offer. I know it could interfere with looting if this is done, so maybe an option to "end combat" and each player keeps what they have, then transfers >whatever< via the marketplace... The drawback here is there is nothing to keep a player from agreeing to something, then not following through. I think the community might take over, though, and "force" them to follow through. Plus, I think most of us are here to enjoy the game and if that's the agreement then that's the agreement. :-) Just trying to think of a way for us to start using it without Sam having to code a "surrender with XXX" option... JL ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 7:11 pm

Six Gun Jack Jacks Gunfighters Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: Jun 10, 2006 you guys are making it a bit too complicated for the third option. I suggested this before, for pvp and npc combats. Its just another option on the drop down menu. Just like you have an option to surrender and lose all your vehicles, there can be another option called Ransom that computes a ransom based on skills of all the characters left alive and you have to pay that to the other side. Combat ends just like a surrender, but the gangers involved are dropped off at town (as if an exchange of money ransom for the gangers happened at the same time in town). This would be easy to implement as there is no loot screen involved for the loser (but winner gets loot screen like normal gaining all vehicles), its just an end of combat modified where money is paid and gangers automatically survive the trip back. now you ask what about the vehicles ? well if you dont pay the bounty up front to stop pvp combat I think you should always lose your vehicles, that is the risk of fighting as always. I think there should be no trying it then saying oh no im going to lose, stop everything ! But with this option at least you can say oh no im going to lose at least I can guarantee my gangers survival. This should apply to both PVP and a new option for NPC combat (for npcs, the most viscious gangs could refuse this, and it could be related to the negotiator skill of your scout). This gives a chance to gaurantee survival of your valuable gangers at a price. Good money sink too, as I said earlier, it should be computed on relative skill of the gangers involved. ......................... vet wv elmsautumn pvp1 Posted Oct 2, 2008, 7:45 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2008, 7:53 pm by Six Gun Jack

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 8, 2008 Jack - No way. Don't rely on the computer to calculate midgame ransom values. It will simply never be able to account for the "Heavy flamethrower coming in through the side of your freshly breached Apache next round.... would you like to discuss this?" type negotiations. I think being able to beg/bribe/extort people midcombat based on how things are going will be hugely fun. The purpose of this system would be to mitigate the risk of huge losses, not increase them. This is the only way to get the average player involved in pvp. Knowing that a pvp loss is a guarenteed loss of every squad vehicle will result in people opting out up front every time and never giving it a shot. Jimmy - By that reasoning we don't really need the player market either. The truth is that having the server play escrow is not that hard and keeps honest people honest. Also, it's greatly preferable to code it right the first time rather than putting in a half-measure and fixing it "later". ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2008, 8:17 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2008, 8:23 pm by Jety

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