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Where this is all going...
*sam*
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I just thought I'd better explain why the current changes are being done. It might seem like a disorganized mix of major changes, but really it?s not.

AM I VET-BASHING?

Item degradation ? this is to stop proliferation of rare items and the ?Evan Country Club? that this is becoming. I think the veteran players that have a problem with this are over-reacting. Under Dr. Mathias? model, an item loses 1% of its permanent health for each full event that it takes damage in. A few points of chassis health will make no noticeable difference. I will also be changing what degraded weapons will tend to do ? they will become a little less accurate rather than jam. So, you might lose some of your treasured equipment (and it will fuel a second-hand market: great!) ? but don?t forget there is always a supply of new rare equipment. The players who currently own the rare stuff are also the players who are most capable of getting new rare stuff. Don?t they want to have a challenge any more?

AM I NEWBIE-BASHING?

Changes to rental rules ? rentals were only added a few months ago, so if new players think it?s unfair, be aware that many of the established players never had rentals. The rental rules that we had until yesterday were discouraging in-town play, which is damaging the game. They were also making it too easy for new gangs to build up $ and hardware. This was damaging the fun of the game for new players, and short-circuiting the in-town play which is actually a very important way to build up your gang.

AM I CASUAL-PLAYER-BASHING?

Increased garage fees ? this will be use-based, so it is not unfair to casual players.

OTHER STUFF

There?s also several other important things I am doing to encourage multi-player and in-town activity: adding hardware prizes in the leagues; allowing the top-skilled player from each gang to gang in a squad to gain scouting and mech. skill. These are less controversial than the points above, but are an important part of the big picture.
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marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013

Posted Sep 4, 2008, 9:24 am Last edited Sep 4, 2008, 9:29 am by *sam*
lordbam
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You are a mean person :-p
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vet wv zom0,3,0

Posted Sep 4, 2008, 10:28 am
Alocalypse
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This type of degradation could be best compared to when we didn't have camps and stuff that was below 75% was pretty-much a write-off.

Except this is much more forgiving and interesting with the second hand market and all.

(I'd still want something more hardcore, but I know a compromise is better)

Quote:
Increased garage fees – this will be use-based, so it is not unfair to casual players.


It seems a bit redundant to make it use-based, why not just increase the armor repair/ammo costs to similar effect and less work?

If it's going to be use-based so older vehicles take more to maintain then that's going to be counterproductive, players get attached to their cars and build stories around them (The haunted cutlass etc) and that would very much discourage keeping those cars.

We'll need more details I guess...
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vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Sep 4, 2008, 11:09 am Last edited Sep 4, 2008, 11:09 am by Alocalypse
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Alocalypse said:
Quote:
Increased garage fees – this will be use-based, so it is not unfair to casual players.


It seems a bit redundant to make it use-based, why not just increase the armor repair/ammo costs to similar effect and less work?


I can think of one reason that repair costs shouldn't go up for the same effect - those times when your car is hardly damaged at all.

Sam - I'm confident you're on the right track and support you in your changes.

JL



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vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1

Posted Sep 4, 2008, 12:26 pm
*sam*
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Thanks JL :cyclops:
Thanks Alo too BTW, you haven't been at all negative either..
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marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013

Posted Sep 4, 2008, 12:38 pm
Alocalypse
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*jimmylogan* said:
I can think of one reason that repair costs shouldn't go up for the same effect - those times when your car is hardly damaged at all.


And what's bad about that? It makes the difference between a well played/executed scout and an half-assed one bigger, rewarding the former more in comparision.
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vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Sep 4, 2008, 2:17 pm
*jimmylogan*
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Alocalypse said:
*jimmylogan* said:
I can think of one reason that repair costs shouldn't go up for the same effect - those times when your car is hardly damaged at all.


And what's bad about that? It makes the difference between a well played/executed scout and an half-assed one bigger, rewarding the former more in comparision.


Not that it's "bad," just that it's not going to truly reflect an increase in "storage," IMHO.

JL


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vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1

Posted Sep 4, 2008, 3:01 pm
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I'm optimistic of the changes, looks like some serious thought went into them. Now if only I could play more!
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vet wv

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 1:37 am
Jansan
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I think the degradation and the use-based garage fees are both good ideas. I'd have to agree with Jimmy that if it was based on repairs-only it'd defeat the purpose of it to begin with.

Thanks for explaining Sam.
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vet

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 1:42 am
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IF Alo is not complaining is how we know these changes are BAD ... VERY BAD in a sinister sort of way :p

seriously though wish you had posted this before you started the latest changes, makes it more clear why you are doing what you are doing....

looks good to me and yeah I was thinking it would increase hoarding but as Alo and you pointed out it will start up a second hand market which would be a good thing I think, getting the economy and trade flowing.

and as a side note thanks for thinking of the multi-player support too. I find myself doing a lot of solo scouts lately as I lost two scouts and im trying to build up mechs for my camp. Shame of it is I would rather be doing this training AND scouting with others, glad you are on top of that soon.

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vet wv elmsautumn pvp1

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 5:14 am
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lordbam said:
You are a mean person :-p

Leave sam alone hes just trying to improve dw.
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vet wv raceL1 pvp2 combatL1

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 6:49 am
Valiance
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Well said, Savage
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vet combat1 wv ped1

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 8:50 am
*sam*
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Quote:
Leave sam alone hes just trying to improve dw.


I'm pretty sure Lordbam was joking, based on the smiley  :rolleyes:


Quote:
seriously though wish you had posted this before you started the latest changes, makes it more clear why you are doing what you are doing....


Yeah, I take that point (Valiance has been telling me the same thing). The reasoning was actually made, at various places scattered around the forums... which I accept is not a good way to do it if I hope it will get read!
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marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 9:30 am
Mad Mike
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When ALO doesnt complain its means the changes are beneficial to him and not to others. If ya havent noticed ALO is very hyprocritical. If soimething is bad and doesnt help him he complains but if its bad and HELPS him then he says nothing.

Only thing I see out of all of this is sam is trying to slow the game down. Players have become extremely wealthy over the past year. I have ALOT of mortars because it became easy to get mortars.

The reason ALO is happy with the changes is he has all the rare stuff, a large majority of the camps, and vast amounts of money. Slowing the game down greatly benefits ALO because it is now more difficult to gather money and rare weapons. If you have arre weapons you can only use them sparingly because they will wear out.



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vet wv

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 12:26 pm
Alocalypse
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Where exactly did I say I was happy with the changes?

I've expressed my opinions about these changes in their respective threads enough (This type of degradation isn't enough, garage fees add up to a lot already...).

Most of those ideas had been discussed too much already and a lot has been re-iterated over the times and they've ceased to be productive.

Yes, I usually benefit from any changes relative to other players because I adapt more quickly and. If I do, it's (I hate to say it like this) it's probably because I'm a good player.

Maybe because of that I'm more willing to accept any new changes. Also I really don't want to give Sam an additional hard time over this.

I mean, what am I supposed to do? Say that I quit the game over this?
(no offense indended towards people who recently retired)
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vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 1:41 pm
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Lol you are getting soft a little Alo, you never would have put a disclsaimer on before.... (Heehee).
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vet wv pvp4

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 2:31 pm
Alocalypse
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Zoltan said:
Lol you are getting soft a little Alo, you never would have put a disclsaimer on before.... (Heehee).


I apologize if the disclaimer offended you in any way or caused you any undue distress.
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vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 2:55 pm
Jim
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lol
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vet

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 3:00 pm
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Alo using in small print disclaimers, spanky adopting the ARL logo, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - MASS HYSTERIA!
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Posted Sep 5, 2008, 3:24 pm
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I will just offer a "brief" opinon on the matter, while trying to avoid rehashing all the old arguments.

I like this game because it does not require an overage of micromanagement. The more trading you do, or if you own a camp, it requires mroe and more micromanagement to be successful. Thus, I stick to scouting and racing events.

As for item degredation, the big problem i have is that (up until a few days ago), I had one particular car that I used in almost every scout. It was just an apache, so not super-rare, but I would have been upset if it had just started degrading in performance.

I certainly understand the reasons behind these changes though, especially in light of how an uber-rich player can potentially grief a newb.

Once all these balance issues are worked out (and I'm confident that you'll do a good job of tweaking the system as needed), I think an endgame is needed, whether it be pvp scout attacks, huge Wow-style raids (wait, I want nothing WOW-related in this game ...), rpg-style missions, etc.

I could ramble on and on about this game because I love it so much and see so much potential for ways to make it even more exciting for some people, but I'm quite happy the way it is as it suits my (relatively) casual gameplay style.

Thanks for reading. :D
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vet wv zom

Posted Sep 5, 2008, 3:37 pm
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