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Rule Changes to Darkwinds--Far From Arbitrary

Beverly-Dutton The Yellowstone Ranch Pedestrian Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: May 2, 2020 I do not usually post in the forums. When I see Lebron James lobby referees for a call because he is not getting enough foul calls, it seems beneath someone who wants to be the NBA GOAT. When I see someone lobby for a rule change that stops someone from making money through trading that does not involve exploiting the Camp Wars or the League events by making it impossible for newer players to compete, I see that as worse than Lebron whining for foul calls. Michael Jordan wouldn't do that. In my short tenure I once considered some experienced players here to be worthy of being the DW GOAT. I no longer do. ......................... wv vet Posted Aug 27, 2021, 4:54 pm

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Apart from having to work out the reference I completely agree. It has, sadly, always been the case that one player's use of the rules will be seen by those that don't like them as an abuse and so goes the merry go round. Once upon, we had a rules council to debate and argue in a concentrated way about rule changes so that Sam would have multiple perspectives about proposed rule changes. I would imagine that the player base is no longer large enough (nor perhaps does the management have the time/interest) to revitalise the RC. We certainly didn't always get it right, but at least the choice was well informed/argued at the least. Apart from all that - well said and nicely put. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Aug 27, 2021, 6:46 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2021, 6:47 pm by *Ninesticks*

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,215 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Beverly-Dutton said: When I see someone lobby for a rule change that stops someone from making money through trading that does not involve exploiting the Camp Wars or the League events by making it impossible for newer players to compete Can you be specific to what rule change was proposed that affects camp wars or leagues? This way I can better explain things and to see what could be done differently. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Aug 27, 2021, 10:10 pm

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 762 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 I think I got the jist. I mean, from a roleplaying perspective, the amount of buzzers with godknowswhat on them being able to reduce an entire gang's worth of cars into scrap multiple times daily, just for insolence.. "Maybe we let these lorries go, I mean, they are our best buds.. now..." ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Sep 10, 2021, 2:25 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,215 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Its not a RP thing. I what to hear how a proposed rule stops someone from making money?? ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Sep 10, 2021, 4:47 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Any of the rules X-man Lobbied for come to mind…. Like untrucable encounters with allied factions who then execute Neg6 325 skill scouts as you exit Somerset with 256 Cr worth of cargo haulers and fight you 26 cars vs 4. But I’m curious too what this change was. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 10, 2021, 5:50 am Last edited Sep 10, 2021, 5:51 am by *StCrispin*

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 762 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 I figured it was the lorries full of water as well. Didn't see anything wrong with it. If you wanted to fight so much other gangs didn't want to fight you, nothing wrong with that. ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Sep 10, 2021, 9:36 pm

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 762 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 I don't see why you'd punish your most loyal player for being your most loyal player. ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Sep 10, 2021, 10:08 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,670 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 There was a player who exploited the game and got caught. What was to stop anyone who found out about this exploit to go and do the same thing, and have 20 billionaires in Darkwind, all with 20 skilled gangers, because thats all you would need to exploit this. Then these 20 people using all of their money to keep other things away from other players, or even grief them, due to having 10 times more money than anyone else. Its really silly to think that people think this was OK. I have played this game 14 years, and accumulated alot, but it wasnt without alot of blood, sweat, and hard work. Many, many other players have done the same as me. SO really, why do you think its OK to cheat to make 10 times what I have done in 14 years, in just a few months, money that took me 14 years? There are great people in this community, but sometimes Im disgusted with this community, people support cheating in a game. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 6:11 am

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 There is a world of difference between making use of the game systems and exploiting. Choosing a different way to play the game as allowed by the system is not the definition of exploitation. Exploiting is often a word thrown around far too often. After all, for some having the crew and kit and similar allies to essentially prevent effective competition could arguably be seen as an exploit if we are playing fast and loose with definitions. Of course opinions will vary on that, but if the game system isn't working as intended you need to look harder than just come up with a simple 'fix' to deal with the 'exploiting'. Otherwise you run the very real risk of seeming somewhat lacklustre and uninspired. Lots of seemingly plucked out of the air numbers there that support your argument. Not compelling quite the opposite, makes me wonder why you feel the need to put them in to support your position - makes you appear butt hurt more than anything. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 8:09 am

Tez Blood Roses Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 579 Joined: Sep 13, 2009 Can we stop talking in code and spout facts. As X said we need clarity unless this becomes the latest Forum Wars PvP battleground. ......................... vet wv combat1 pvp3 pvp51,4,0 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 8:34 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Im just curious what it was this time.  Obviously trucing with allied factions was considered an "eXploit" in the past and yet when "Certain People" were found to be transporting Buzzers to Morgan for its defense using No-Danger Camp Roads to get there and to bypass bulk restrictions, those people weren't penalized.  If that wasn't conscious manipulation and eXploiting and using one's position for personal gain, then I guess its also not exploiting when you heal and resurect your 35 spec characters whenever they die or get hurt, so that you can dominate CoE. But playing 36-40 hours a week grinding reputation so that you can truce with allied factions and bring Fuel from Texan to Somerset is... And all the very well thought out suggestions on how to easily and transparently FIX it, make the economy more DYNAMIC, and the game more fun and playable, without it looking like a blanket "God-Ban" rather than a subtle systemic way things worked that wouldnt even be noticed, weren't considered because then it would cramp Certain People's play rather than just the people trying to play catchup The item mentioned could have been fixed with a simple supply and demand system.  Instead we got a brutally punishing method where Allies will attack you despite your affiliation with them and despite even godly levels of negotiation skill.  Meanwhile to avoid this, "Certain people" just use camp roads instead to do the same thing. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 5:00 pm Last edited Sep 11, 2021, 5:27 pm by *StCrispin*

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 It was the EXACT same thing they roasted Krak over the coals for. It was a DISCOVERY there. Darth was WELL aware. THIS time it is a MOTHER ####KING EXPLOIT no matter what the #### this crabs in the bucket community says. People who've been sucking the TEET of this Cretin are the only ones upset he got CAUGHT. He made FAR more money than Krak did. Going by what was spent the past year on sponsors alone we estimate well over half a billion DW dollars. It affected camp wars as a direct result, but the economy in DW has been largely acting like a banana republic in general as well. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 5:07 pm Last edited Sep 11, 2021, 5:08 pm by Joel Autobaun

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Caveat:  Yes i've been playing for many years and have many things (but no money) so im not saying these things for personal gain.  Im saying these things in the interest in DW being seamless and dynamic. I dont like eXploits and feel they should be plugged up when found, but more often than not, something thats NOT an eXploit is termed one because it cuts into other players profits and they feel threatened by it or they think you are doing better than they are at the game.  That perception is often wrong. One example was when I was accused of cheating because I had a return and my guys in loot cars got out and got back into their combat car to defend against the return rather than fighting in a loot car.  I was told by "Certain People" that it wasnt allowed to fight a return that way and I had to fight it the way HE said to fight it. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 5:11 pm Last edited Sep 11, 2021, 5:18 pm by *StCrispin*

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,670 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *Ninesticks* said: makes you appear butt hurt more than anything. I laugh and wait every time I post on the forums anymore Nine, because I know you are going to jump to your keyboard and reply against whatever I posted. You used to be a man who I respected an opinion from, but I think your opinions have been tainted for sometime now, since getting your butt handed to you in numerous camp war battles. I think you are the butt hurt guy. Id leave this comment with "Ill see you on the roads of Evan" but I know you wont climb out from under your bed and jump into Evan because you fear another butt kickin. One more thing - *Ninesticks* said: Lots of seemingly plucked out of the air numbers there that support your argument. This is really simple math. After sponsorships are auctioned, then next week you look at all camp's fame and see who gets one (or all) of the 5 fame boosts. Before this exploit started, usually 5 different players would get a sponsor and a fame boost each game year. But the last 5 game years the player doing the exploiting purchased around 20 of 25 of these sponsorships, keeping them from others and using exploited money. Your camp The Vault was a recipient of at least one of these sponsorships, having it handed to you as the exploited player occasionally would give one of these to his minions, keeping most for himself. I know personally how much was spent because I was bidding on these and saw the last bid on them. Nobody should be able to make over 500 million dollars in a year with ZERO risk. Hopefully next season a few other players will get a chance to sponsor their camps and make some stuff they previously couldnt.    ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 6:24 pm Last edited Sep 11, 2021, 6:26 pm by *Longo*

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,670 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *StCrispin* said: But playing 36-40 hours a week grinding reputation so that you can truce with allied factions and bring Fuel from Texan to Somerset is... Crisp - Getting high anarchist fame used for this exploit is basically killing(redding) a few traders each week. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 6:28 pm

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 762 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 I guess I don't care much about what happened as much as I don't like the, admittedly perceived and second-hand, way it was dealt with (none of this has affected me yet). Wouldn't the easier fix than a level 5 negotiator not being able to truce their best buds be that - if you're friends with a faction's enemies, you can't be friends with us - type deal. So if you're super in with the Mutants, the Civs say kick rocks when you try to red their enemies to get in their good graces. I think it should be a sliding scale, or logarithmic or something, so that once you're in good with one faction, you'd have to put in a thousand hours a week to try to raise one of its enemy's reps. The effect of it would be, yea, if you tried to play the averages on everyone, you'd come up below neutral with everyone, because you'd be pissing everyone off, but if you wanted, say, Civ and Mutie rep you could try (really, really hard), but you'd still never get Anarchists, Privateers, Slavers and Raiders to trust you. In reality, if the factions were players, there's no way you could red some of us on a Friday and us be cool about it the following week because you hit our enemies. No friggen way. ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 7:45 pm Last edited Sep 11, 2021, 7:51 pm by Groovelle

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 I have heard the call for more context and clarity, so here I am! Probably not the person Tez wanted but I'm what he gets. We can't know how much he made but it's very easy to estimate how much he could have been making. A camp can easilly produce several thousands units of food/water with good resources and several production plants, the only check on this is the fact you have to move all of that to town to sell it. 5000(u*)*450[p]*120[d] equals over a quarter billion in a single DW year. It would be almost impossible to move all these goods in terms of playtime and encounters every day. This is why someone might start running squads of unarmored, unarmed lorries with no engines because they knew they could truce all possible encounters. Unarmored lorries trucing everything is a known exploit from the past mind you. I mean, most of us have done stupid things at some point (me included, possibly while drunk  ) but you don't set something like this up by mistake. u* - Units of goods, I can say this with certainty because I know my own camp in sarsfield could produce that with similar tile income to what he'd get from the surrounding tiles in FL. Could have done the exact thing he did. p - Town sales price, for the last few years firelight prices for water and food have rested in the 400-500 range, or thereabouts iirc. d - days, duh **Edit I forgot to mention this part, but it also takes and incredible number of crew to move convoys like these. By doing this lorry "trick" you cut down crew requirements to 1 rookie driver per truck, instead of the possibly multiple crew per lorry and escort vehicle you'd normally need. ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 11:12 pm Last edited Sep 11, 2021, 11:26 pm by FireFly

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,027 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 lmoa biznatches still complaining lol, yeah i only made half billion honest stupid mofo will never learn how much i made while i sit back laughing at the dumbasses. ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Sep 11, 2021, 11:59 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,215 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 *StCrispin* said: Any of the rules X-man Lobbied for come to mind…. Like untrucable encounters with allied factions who then execute Neg6 325 skill scouts as you exit Somerset with 256 Cr worth of cargo haulers and fight you 26 cars vs 4. But I’m curious too what this change was. Wasn't me so get your facts straight before you ramble on about things you don't know ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Sep 12, 2021, 5:27 am

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