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Announcing the new Camp Wars system

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 As you may have heard, a group of us have spent some time discussing a major overhaul to the camp system. Here is an overview: General Proposal The Evan map will be made up of a few hundred hex tiles which can each be owned by a PvP camp (or could remain neutral). Owning tiles will give recurring income/bonuses, but they will have to be defended from enemy players. CR for the battles will be designated by the camp owner at the beginning of each weekly/ biweekly period, being split between the tiles they own and adjacent tiles they wish to attack. The CR for the battles will be decided by both the CR allocated at the start of the period and other factors such as the defendability of the tile - hill tiles will grant a CR bonus to the defender for example. A New Economy This new method of organising camp PvP will completely replace the old camp war system, and indeed the old camp resource system. Training boosts, Training vouchers, enhanced recruitment, and tax dollars (from your serfs) are all things players can expect to earn from partaking in the new system. We will also have an open forum for new resources to be suggested and discussed - e.g. 'mutant hiring vouchers' from tiles near Firelight, or 'high-skill scout recruitment vouchers' from tiles near Gateway. Tiles will also crucially contain vital resources to the region they are in - there will be for example sporadic water sources in Texan and oil wells in Somerset. Alongside this we have a broad vision (if this system is succesful) of weening the game onto a more player run economy, working off supply and demand much like EvE online, and taking into account the popularity of the trading systems which have developed in Darkwind Scav.     Non PvP Camps No camp who doesn't want to partake will be forced to. They will control the tile their camp occupies and all of the current resources the camp produces will be placed on that tile; i.e. they can continue to play their camp as PvE only, with the same rules that they currently have. Furthermore, as we are aware this change might *drastically* alter the value of some camps near Somerset who are set to be part of a crowded bloodbath, the option to relocate your camp will be given to all players (with a DW$ cost or refund if you’re moving closer or further from town). Scheduling Scheduling combats will work in the same way that camp attacks already work, i.e. the camp has ‘open times’ which define when attacks can be scheduled on its tiles. All times will be viewable through the map for all players. Mitigating PvP Risk While cars would be player supplied, it would be possible to hire computer controlled mercenaries, 70 - 80 skilled characters who would be hired and dissapear after a single use. If one wants to bring their good 200 skill characters they can - at their own risk. We will also add a new mechanism in PvP combats where any character can immediately (on command of their owner) be removed from the combat and put into a footsquad.         Mitigating PvP Time Commitment    A balance has to be found here between encouraging cooperation and the distribution of responsibilities, while not making the game a grindy slog. This can be balanced out by changing the period on which tiles are attacked. Part of the philosophy of this update will be to encourage player cooperation - camps are by no means meant to be a one man operation and if running your wars of conquest is too time consuming for you, it may be time to make some more friends or train up some new players to act as your allys and generals! Going along with this philosophy would be the idea of regional scouting - a way of involving noobs in camps. As opposed to the current annoying-ass npc camp attacks which come when you dont want them, the more pirates killed in a region increase its "safety rating", a modifier which affects productivity. The idea being to encourage camp owners to pay newer players (who may not be ready for full on PvP) to scout in their region, getting them involved in camps in the process. Another factor in terms of time consumption is the battles themselves - the way around this is to add a turn limit to battles and a king of the hill style control point, with the victory going to whoever has controlled this point for the longest by the end of the battle, should nobody have already won in the normal way by that point. Phased Implementation The idea is to use a phased approach to adding the features, over a number of game years. This will allow discussion and tweaking and people getting used to things before those things have the potential to wreck havoc. And it will give me time to reflect on the enormity of what I've just committed to implementing. I’ll shortly be writing up the plans for “Season 1” – to involve such things as initial resource placement of the map tiles, and camps getting a once-only opportunity to relocate. Thanks Thanks to the players who have helped this proposal along! Especially Harry, whose overall idea it was and who has cajoled me and marshalled our group discussions. Thanks also to Goat, Ninesticks, Joel, Longo, and X_Man.  You're all welcome to discuss this; please give your ideas and concerns. We don't want to damage anyone's fun or for it to seem like a 'rich get richer' scheme. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 27, 2020, 1:58 pm Last edited Apr 18, 2020, 2:00 pm by *sam*

Ashlee Mads Monsters Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: Apr 15, 2015 like the king of the hill plan. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 5, 2020, 1:17 pm

Tez Blood Roses Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 579 Joined: Sep 13, 2009 Since we're fighting for resources would it benefit the system if looting was optional at discretion of the winner? ......................... vet wv combat1 pvp3 pvp51,4,0 Posted Apr 5, 2020, 1:20 pm

Effy Effys Girls Racer Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: Aug 26, 2014 Some questions or things to think about: 1 - Can a camp lose "all" his hexes including the starting one? What will happen in that case, can a camp be completely wiped? 2 - We all know how world works with bosses err i mean camp owners, and it may be an actual feature i'm not aware of. Could a group of players pay pool the money to create a camp, and be all of them owners with same powers over the camp?. Not that i'm interested (no time to regularly play sadly) just curious about what may be more efficient. 3 - I understand now non-subbed players will be able to travel to the new pvp camps? Only in the nothern cities? Otherwise we are keeping new players out of this new feature or giving extra "muscle" to northern camps. That may even be ok if the south is "richer" resource-wise 3.1 - If there are car limits for battles, and we let non-subbed (or well even subbed accounts if the guy pays for more than 1 account) it might be fairly easy for someone to multi-account and increase his own numbers. 4 - Will you place a "cooldown" on gang switching? Or can a group of mercs... ehhh i mean honest non camp owner people jump freely from camp to camp and help a camp get an hex, and the minute switch sides and take it back? And at the end have the power to threaten camp owners (if only by joining its enemies)? ......................... vet wv race1 deathrce1 combat1 paintladder0,59,4 Posted Apr 5, 2020, 3:09 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,215 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Effy said: Some questions or things to think about: 1 - Can a camp lose "all" his hexes including the starting one?     What will happen in that case, can a camp be completely wiped? I will do my best at these. Sam may need to verify to be 100% You wont lose your starting camp hex tile, just the ones you try to expand out and claim if a loss occurs. Camps cannot be completely wiped in one battle. The current camp war system, it took months and months of continuous defeats before it would be lost and taken over by the attacking camp. Effy said: 2 - We all know how world works with bosses err i mean camp owners, and it may be an actual feature i'm not aware of. Could a group of players pay pool the money to create a camp, and be all of them owners with same powers over the camp?. Not that i'm interested (no time to regularly play sadly) just curious about what may be more efficient. The current system to purchase camps has been stopped for now. Up to Sam to determine when or if it will be opened for future camps to be purchased. As of now, look to buy a camp someone wants to sell. Other option is getting in with a camp owner who has multiple camps and "run one" for him. Effy said: 3 - I understand now non-subbed players will be able to travel to the new pvp camps? Only in the nothern cities? Otherwise we are keeping new players out of this new feature or giving extra "muscle" to northern camps. That may even be ok if the south is "richer" resource-wise Non subbed players can participate, but not sure if they will be able to or allowed to reach camps that are out of the northern triangle. If not, there is still plenty from them to get involved with. Effy said: 3.1 - If there are car limits for battles, and we let non-subbed (or well even subbed accounts if the guy pays for more than 1 account) it might be fairly easy for someone to multi-account and increase his own numbers. Alt accounts are not allowed. Effy said: 4 - Will you place a "cooldown" on gang switching? Or can a group of mercs... ehhh i mean honest non camp owner people jump freely from camp to camp and help a camp get an hex, and the minute switch sides and take it back? And at the end have the power to threaten camp owners (if only by joining its enemies)? As far as I recall, non camp owners who help secure hex tiles can do so for any camp. That hex tile remains as that camp's own regardless what the non owner affiliation is with other camps. Sam or Harry, please review to make sure I got this all correct. Or add in anything I may have left out that is important. Thanks. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Apr 5, 2020, 4:59 pm Last edited Apr 5, 2020, 5:03 pm by *The X Man*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 *The X Man* said: Effy said: Some questions or things to think about: 1 - Can a camp lose "all" his hexes including the starting one?     What will happen in that case, can a camp be completely wiped? I will do my best at these. Sam may need to verify to be 100% You wont lose your starting camp hex tile, just the ones you try to expand out and claim if a loss occurs. Camps cannot be completely wiped in one battle. The current camp war system, it took months and months of continuous defeats before it would be lost and taken over by the attacking camp. The tile your camp is on is much safer than the others. If you switch to non-pvp then it's entirely safe.  If you leave pvp on and all your other tiles are gone then attacks can be made on your camp itself (the same as how camp wars now work) and only if all buildings are destroyed do you lose the camp.  This has only ever happened once in the 'old' system, and that was to an abandoned camp.  Basically there's no risk.. it takes several lost battles to lose your buildings. *The X Man* said: Effy said: 2 - We all know how world works with bosses err i mean camp owners, and it may be an actual feature i'm not aware of. Could a group of players pay pool the money to create a camp, and be all of them owners with same powers over the camp?. Not that i'm interested (no time to regularly play sadly) just curious about what may be more efficient. The current system to purchase camps has been stopped for now. Up to Sam to determine when or if it will be opened for future camps to be purchased. As of now, look to buy a camp someone wants to sell. Other option is getting in with a camp owner who has multiple camps and "run one" for him. I think were going to continue to allow people to buy camps, in fact. I think newer players would be too unhappy otherwise. Each camp can only have one actual owner, but any numbers of 'managers', with partial powers. *The X Man* said: Effy said: 3 - I understand now non-subbed players will be able to travel to the new pvp camps? Only in the nothern cities? Otherwise we are keeping new players out of this new feature or giving extra "muscle" to northern camps. That may even be ok if the south is "richer" resource-wise Non subbed players can participate, but not sure if they will be able to or allowed to reach camps that are out of the northern triangle. If not, there is still plenty from them to get involved with. They'll have to (continue to) stay within the northern triangle. And they won't be allowed to partake in the pvp battles: see below. *The X Man* said: Effy said: 3.1 - If there are car limits for battles, and we let non-subbed (or well even subbed accounts if the guy pays for more than 1 account) it might be fairly easy for someone to multi-account and increase his own numbers. Alt accounts are not allowed. Correct. And in this case it would be taken very seriously, since it would give a big advantage.  Certainly non-subs won't be allowed to be involved in pvp battles, to help this. And also it won't be possible to take control of your squad-mates cars in these battles. *The X Man* said: Effy said: 4 - Will you place a "cooldown" on gang switching? Or can a group of mercs... ehhh i mean honest non camp owner people jump freely from camp to camp and help a camp get an hex, and the minute switch sides and take it back? And at the end have the power to threaten camp owners (if only by joining its enemies)? As far as I recall, non camp owners who help secure hex tiles can do so for any camp. That hex tile remains as that camp's own regardless what the non owner affiliation is with other camps. Correct. If you let people into your camp who you shouldn't trust, that's your problem. Backstabbing and other shenanigans is fair play, and actually fun.. having a level of politics coming in is a good thing. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 5, 2020, 5:15 pm Last edited Apr 18, 2020, 2:05 pm by *sam*

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,215 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Did better than the last test I took at school ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Apr 5, 2020, 5:22 pm

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 762 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 I don't know where to put this but I dig the idea of camps owning a town tile to be able to use their gangers and cars from camp in town events! ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Apr 7, 2020, 7:15 pm

Sir Nexus Pole Dancers Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: Sep 26, 2014 *relevant comment that underlies my excitement for the new camp system, while also shedding some light on what I think could be possible issues, followed up with more encouragement at the evolution of the game* ......................... vet wv deathrce1 pvp5 combat1 sssc ped2 northernsummer0,3,0 Posted Apr 7, 2020, 10:08 pm

*Rev. V* Cestus Dei Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 3,208 Joined: Aug 3, 2010 Sam said 'Certainly non-subs won't be allowed to be involved in pvp battles, to help this. And also it won't be possible to take control of your squad-mates cars in these battles. ' I get the first part, the second though.... How does this play out if you get bumped from the game? Or am I misunderstanding something? ......................... vet wv zom marshal paintladder cont Posted Apr 9, 2020, 4:26 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 *Rev. V* said: Sam said 'Certainly non-subs won't be allowed to be involved in pvp battles, to help this. And also it won't be possible to take control of your squad-mates cars in these battles. ' I get the first part, the second though.... How does this play out  if you get bumped from the game? Or am I misunderstanding something? Hmm, that's a good point. What we don't want is people borrowing each other's vehicle allowance in the combats to circumvent the strict per-player limits. How often do people actually get bumped from the game and are unable to return, though? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2020, 10:42 am

*Dark Tempest* The Black Legion Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,049 Joined: Jan 27, 2010 I think being in the event and then leaving is different that never logging in. I t happens to me plenty with the family at home that I have to leave the computer on short notice and I'm often not back for hours (4 hour timeouts are great!) I think that if all the car owners are logged in at the beginning of combat the other squad members should be able to take control. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 Posted Apr 9, 2020, 11:47 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *sam* said: And also it won't be possible to take control of your squad-mates cars in these battles. i'm really not sure about this bit. I have a baby and i don't want to be relying on the opposition to time out if i need to go settle him. At the moment i'm very happy for Nine, Pie of Bas to take over for a few turns. This would make participation almost impossible for me at certain times. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Apr 9, 2020, 10:40 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 *goat starer* said: *sam* said: And also it won't be possible to take control of your squad-mates cars in these battles. i'm really not sure about this bit. I have a baby and i don't want to be relying on the opposition to time out if i need to go settle him. At the moment i'm very happy for Nine, Pie of Bas to take over for a few turns. This would make participation almost impossible for me at certain times. How to enforce the car limit per player, then?  It's quite fundamental to encouraging a diverse player base in camps and encouraging newer players into this stuff ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 9, 2020, 11:02 pm

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Effy said: 4 - Will you place a "cooldown" on gang switching? Or can a group of mercs... ehhh i mean honest non camp owner people jump freely from camp to camp and help a camp get an hex, and the minute switch sides and take it back? And at the end have the power to threaten camp owners (if only by joining its enemies)? Don't tell the Hessians about this ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Apr 10, 2020, 1:21 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 *Dark Tempest* said: I think being in the event and then leaving is different that never logging in. I t happens to me plenty with the family at home that I have to leave the computer on short notice and I'm often not back for hours (4 hour timeouts are great!) I think that if all the car owners are logged in at the beginning of combat the other squad members should be able to take control. Yeah, Im in this boat, or even just lose internet connection for hours. I agree if we are logged in at the start it should be ok, Im not sure how this would play out though. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Apr 10, 2020, 1:30 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 *sam* said: *goat starer* said: *sam* said: And also it won't be possible to take control of your squad-mates cars in these battles. i'm really not sure about this bit. I have a baby and i don't want to be relying on the opposition to time out if i need to go settle him. At the moment i'm very happy for Nine, Pie of Bas to take over for a few turns. This would make participation almost impossible for me at certain times. How to enforce the car limit per player, then?  It's quite fundamental to encouraging a diverse player base in camps and encouraging newer players into this stuff Yeah, tricky. And I guess even if we are logged in to start, easy enough to have 5 dudes tha never play, log in at the start and assign all their cars to Grimm. Lets see how he plays this out, that will give us some ideas hehe ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Apr 10, 2020, 1:33 am

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Groovelle said: I don't know where to put this but I dig the idea of camps owning a town tile to be able to use their gangers and cars from camp in town events! Like ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Apr 10, 2020, 4:01 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,781 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 *Bastille* said: *sam* said: *goat starer* said: *sam* said: And also it won't be possible to take control of your squad-mates cars in these battles. i'm really not sure about this bit. I have a baby and i don't want to be relying on the opposition to time out if i need to go settle him. At the moment i'm very happy for Nine, Pie of Bas to take over for a few turns. This would make participation almost impossible for me at certain times. How to enforce the car limit per player, then?  It's quite fundamental to encouraging a diverse player base in camps and encouraging newer players into this stuff Yeah, tricky. And I guess even if we are logged in to start, easy enough to have 5 dudes tha never play, log in at the start and assign all their cars to Grimm. Lets see how he plays this out, that will give us some ideas hehe I suppose it would be fairly easy to spot suspicious behavior, and it could be dealt with manually. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 10, 2020, 5:56 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,670 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *sam* said: *Bastille* said: *sam* said: *goat starer* said: *sam* said: And also it won't be possible to take control of your squad-mates cars in these battles. i'm really not sure about this bit. I have a baby and i don't want to be relying on the opposition to time out if i need to go settle him. At the moment i'm very happy for Nine, Pie of Bas to take over for a few turns. This would make participation almost impossible for me at certain times. How to enforce the car limit per player, then?  It's quite fundamental to encouraging a diverse player base in camps and encouraging newer players into this stuff Yeah, tricky. And I guess even if we are logged in to start, easy enough to have 5 dudes tha never play, log in at the start and assign all their cars to Grimm. Lets see how he plays this out, that will give us some ideas hehe I suppose it would be fairly easy to spot suspicious behavior, and it could be dealt with manually. I think this is a good starting point. Marshals can be contacted by players concerned their opponent is cheating, and the either rectify the situation at that point or forward to you and/or Xman for review if it necessitates. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Apr 10, 2020, 10:43 pm

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