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Northern Triangle Deathrally
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*Longo* said:
*goat starer* said:
*Longo* said:
*goat starer* said:
having even 1 of the COEs for a couple of players to doik it out with their wizards for a big prize is frankly a bit weird. Even those players know that pyro is an insanely overpowered specialism that substitutes graft for skill.

I never complain about people shooting at me. It gives me an excuse to shoot back (like i need one).

I do complain, vociferously, about people magically shooting at me when i cant shoot back.  :cyclops:


I used to hate it but now accept it and use PSIs when I have them. They are incredibly hard to develop, and do not live long, often ruining a ganger to get "the majic" just for a little while.


and in the process kill other peoples gangers who have absolutely no chance to respond.. bypassing their carefully thought out car set ups to counter the fact that they are newer players... bypassing their skills... with your 'hard earned' magic that they can set up no defence against. its a game breaking ability that bursts the rules of multiplayer games wide open. A really bad mistake by Sam.

I was a big fan of psi a concept... but it needed to be able to be countered by something newer players could do.


We can agree to disagree on this, my thoughts are not going to change on this. We disagreed on Scav too, you pushed for it and I didnt think it was a good idea...


and i was right about that too  :cyclops: (although that's not entirely true.. i argued for a loot only, PVP always on mainstream DW. proved it could be done in shanty. When a few vets didn't like it Sam introduced an alternative version because that was always the hardcore vision of the game (matching permadeath and ageing and addictions and the setting). that would never have been my first choice).

i'm happy to agree to disagree.. but what you are essentially saying is that you you have no arguments left. introducing a weapon that has no defence, especially for newer players, is indefensible. if you don't want to defend it then that is entirely understandable.
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vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2

Posted Feb 9, 2020, 10:39 pm Last edited Feb 9, 2020, 10:45 pm by *goat starer*
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*goat starer* said:
*Longo* said:
*goat starer* said:
*Longo* said:
*goat starer* said:
having even 1 of the COEs for a couple of players to doik it out with their wizards for a big prize is frankly a bit weird. Even those players know that pyro is an insanely overpowered specialism that substitutes graft for skill.

I never complain about people shooting at me. It gives me an excuse to shoot back (like i need one).

I do complain, vociferously, about people magically shooting at me when i cant shoot back.  :cyclops:


I used to hate it but now accept it and use PSIs when I have them. They are incredibly hard to develop, and do not live long, often ruining a ganger to get "the majic" just for a little while.


and in the process kill other peoples gangers who have absolutely no chance to respond.. bypassing their carefully thought out car set ups to counter the fact that they are newer players... bypassing their skills... with your 'hard earned' magic that they can set up no defence against. its a game breaking ability that bursts the rules of multiplayer games wide open. A really bad mistake by Sam.

I was a big fan of psi a concept... but it needed to be able to be countered by something newer players could do.


We can agree to disagree on this, my thoughts are not going to change on this. We disagreed on Scav too, you pushed for it and I didnt think it was a good idea...


and i was right about that too  :cyclops: (although that's not entirely true.. i argued for a loot only, PVP always on mainstream DW. proved it could be done in shanty. When a few vets didn't like it Sam introduced an alternative version because that was always the hardcore vision of the game (matching permadeath and ageing and addictions and the setting). that would never have been my first choice).

i'm happy to agree to disagree.. but what you are essentially saying is that you you have no arguments left. introducing a weapon that has no defence, especially for newer players, is indefensible. if you don't want to defend it then that is entirely understandable.



There is 1 league that allows PSI in all of Evan. Dont play in it if you dont like it...and you dont. Leave it be...for those two 30 minute weekly Events, go sit on the toilet or something and think about something else. So leave it alone and come up with some new ideas for DW while we have this new regeneration of the community and Sam excited about the game again.. :).
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vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1

Posted Feb 9, 2020, 10:55 pm Last edited Feb 9, 2020, 10:57 pm by *Longo*
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again.. no answer to the point.

the thing is Longo we might disagree about some things and often they are moot. But you know i am right that an undefendable weapon that bypasses terrain, skill and armour is a game breaker. you just don't like admitting it because you are one of 3 players who have one.

but if you like having a 2/3 player league to share out the biggest prizes in Evan that is entirely your choice. I cant change it (as has been shown over years of pointing it out)... the only people who could would be you and Joel.. but its just too comfortable.

You don't like Scav because it is hard.. you do like psis because they make it easy... its just a different philosophy on gaming. so as you say lets agree to disagree.

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Posted Feb 9, 2020, 11:31 pm
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Which league is it that allows Psi, so I can avoid it?

Goat Starer is correct here. Something that OP, that isn't available to most of the player-base, is inherently bad. To then make the league rewards some of the biggest prizes in the game is even worse (Goats words, I don't know which league, so just going by what I've read so far). The rich just get richer.

Scavenger is completely Opt-In. It doesn't matter how hard it is, it's Opt-In. Your natural response is that the league is opt-in as well, except its not. The leagues are base content for the game. To remove the ability for the player base to be competitive within the base content is a mistake.

So either make Psi more accessible (probably the wrong way to go) or remove it from dominating your base content.
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vet wv ped10,1,0

Posted Mar 12, 2020, 7:54 am
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Sam: Introduces something cool.
Sam: Is enthusiastic.

Players: Bitchfest about something totally unrelated to the point.


Come on fellas.

Righteous Sam! Badass!
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vet wv0,3,0

Posted Mar 12, 2020, 8:10 am
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*sam* said:
OK, it's set up and ready to start this season! It's Oct-Dec.

Currently one car per gang, but I'm considering making it 2 cars per gang to make it a bit different. Any opinions on that?


I think one car is good for rally. Its what makes it fun I think.

Can they be on all the maps? so.. SS to Gw, Gw to Elms, Elms to SS? And do the triangle rally or is that what you meant?


EDIT: Just saw your second post. Nvm :)
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marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp34,14,1

Posted Mar 12, 2020, 2:47 pm Last edited Mar 12, 2020, 2:54 pm by *Bastille*
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Dropdeadfred said:
Which league is it that allows Psi, so I can avoid it?

Goat Starer is correct here.  Something that OP, that isn't available to most of the player-base, is inherently bad.  To then make the league rewards some of the biggest prizes in the game is even worse (Goats words, I don't know which league, so just going by what I've read so far).  The rich just get richer.

Scavenger is completely Opt-In.  It doesn't matter how hard it is, it's Opt-In.  Your natural response is that the league is opt-in as well, except its not.  The leagues are base content for the game.  To remove the ability for the player base to be competitive within the base content is a mistake.

So either make Psi more accessible (probably the wrong way to go) or remove it from dominating your base content.


The information with Psi is out there, where it's allowed how it works etc.

Take the effort to look it up to not look ignorant.

I will summarize  LEAGUES it is allowed :

Coe2 (Because Coe1+3(after massive bitching) and triangle it is banned )
Gateway Leagues (Meltdown and Extravaganza-i think -even though a race league).

Also most players cannot handle PvP - simply do not enter leagues (or any town events for that matter).  Many players to go beat the crap of the NPC in the wilderness with if that's your game.

The game was MADE with PvP in mind - read the damn history and EDUCATE yourself.
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vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle199,78,26

Posted Mar 12, 2020, 11:16 pm
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*Bastille* said:
*sam* said:
OK, it's set up and ready to start this season! It's Oct-Dec.

Currently one car per gang, but I'm considering making it 2 cars per gang to make it a bit different. Any opinions on that?


I think one car is good for rally. Its what makes it fun I think.

Can they be on all the maps? so.. SS to Gw, Gw to Elms, Elms to SS? And do the triangle rally or is that what you meant?


EDIT: Just saw your second post. Nvm :)


I think one player brought two cars once.  It's kinda interesting actually, if this league goes nasty, it can go really nasty.
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vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle199,78,26

Posted Mar 12, 2020, 11:18 pm
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we would expect nothing less
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Posted Mar 12, 2020, 11:35 pm
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Joel Autobaun said:
The information with Psi is out there, where it's allowed how it works etc.

Take the effort to look it up to not look ignorant.

I will summarize  LEAGUES it is allowed :

Coe2 (Because Coe1+3(after massive bitching) and triangle it is banned )
Gateway Leagues (Meltdown and Extravaganza-i think -even though a race league).

Also most players cannot handle PvP - simply do not enter leagues (or any town events for that matter).  Many players to go beat the crap of the NPC in the wilderness with if that's your game.

The game was MADE with PvP in mind - read the damn history and EDUCATE yourself.


lol, says the guy with 5 Fire Engines and 2 Trash Trucks in Somerset alone, and you wonder why someone like myself doesn't want to turn on my PvP flag.

While you answering my question is appreciated, the condescension is not.  It's no secret the game's UI isn't great.  It's no secret the information you're saying is out there is scattered about through multiple different places.  It's no secret that information on the wiki is either outdated or sometimes just downright wrong. 

Most of the newer players, and even someone that's been playing off and on for a few years, still don't know all the ins and outs of the game.  Seeing vehicle builds being discussed in the lobby between veterans is one of the great things about the game, people are STILL discovering different ways to play it.

Berating someone for asking a question, classy.  Telling people that they shouldn't experience part of the base game because they can't handle PvP, classy.  Perhaps you could elaborate on what PvP is like in the game, since the majority of us don't experience it?  Do the majority of players respect the resign in town events?  Are players in the leagues respectful of others gangers, going more for a car disable, or is it cut-throat and you should expect ganger death?

Either way, I stand by my previous statement.  CoE II is a 'rich get richer' league.
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vet wv ped10,1,0

Posted Mar 13, 2020, 6:01 pm
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When you say wrong/ignorant stuff, I will call you ignorant.  The rich do not get richer, I have been breaking even, for the last 4 real life years.

PvP CAN occur:

Wilderness intercepts:

With PvP flagged players (anywhere - not on returns).

Shanty - Flag doesn't matter, I think arrivals might not be exempt (this used to change with new player bitching so much I might have this wrong, players who barely ever went to shanty).

*I THINK* between warring camps of squads of players in those camps.  I hope this is still in the game. I doubt it is, after massive bitching from one or two encounters (all time) that it happened.

Squad Combat Leagues.  CR and ganger skill limits, probably the most fair PvP.

Above is subject to CR matching(within 10% i think).

Squad challenge (not subject to CR matching oddly - shark once exploited this and not fixed to my knowledge).

Shooting allies in own squad (dumb ass).  Can gank own squaddies, luckily it doesn't happen unless you piss off certain marshals.

You will lose reputations based on the players reputations you are killing attacking/not truceing.  If you truce, of course nothing happens.


Rewards:
1.  Better event training(much better - was exploited with paint rifles by several PvE players (DIGUSTING), Sam took that away, now you need to see blue text on gangers, for this to occur).
2.  Camp fame (can exceed camp fame maximums with PvP camp fame awards).  Do not need to win the event to get positive fame, just lots of blue text on your opponent.  Can lose camp fame, it decays, thus not really worth it for camp fame.
3.No returns after PvP.  Theoretically making it the safest event in the game, if you can agree with your opponent to return cars of loser. (Even I do this).


Town Events:

Any all goes, in theory.  Even races you can ram on purpose (How I got the Bastards name).

If you shoot past a "resign" you will lose massive reps with town/civ and DR mafia.  Massive.  But you could... if you really hate that person....

...which requires a grudge.  I think I am the only player that has been asked to prove a grudge.  I provided time /place and post of when I told the other player they were grudged with me.  If I say i'm grudged with your gang, it probably means I will go for red gangers, however I see fit.  Blood fued.

Otherwise, for the most part most players do not even shoot each other in a deathrace.  Dropped weapons seems ok... i dunno someone else post about this, it's gotten pretty ridiculous.  Often there is even "truces" in league combats!  Well it sure comes as a shock when a player shoots another player in any event nowadays.  Too bad.

Wilderness PvP never occurs.  Barely even in Combat leagues.  Not even if players hate each other, it's just not worth time /effort/rep hit.

Sam can confirm/deny whatever I wrote, I could have some details wrong.
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Posted Mar 13, 2020, 10:52 pm Last edited Mar 15, 2020, 6:35 pm by Joel Autobaun
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Joel's reply is pretty accurate. But if you read between the lines, players have grown too soft when it comes down to any kind of PVP event. PVP flags could be turned on by all players and PVP still would not happen. You have to go looking for PVP if you want it to happen.

As much as players won't believe this, PVP, at least 90% is safer than scouting the AI. Most players, even Joel said this above, players usually agree to return vehicles lost during a PVP event. Even honoring resignation to avoid character losses is offered/accepted by players. There is no such guarantee the AI will do this.

You will get humbled during these events. There is nothing wrong with that, but being respectful and show good sportsmanship goes a long way among your peers. Plus, there is no better teaching on what you can learn from PVP. Strategy and tactics that you will never learn from the AI. Things that will actually make you a better player.

Dropdeadfred, your rich get richer quote, I understand what you are getting at. But you will never get what you covet unless you make an attempt to take it. Practice, train, compete... you will get better and you will get your chances. Perseverance and determination.
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Posted Mar 14, 2020, 5:16 am
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Actually took a squad out 2 weeks ago, got intercepted.
Some vets, some newbs.
Asked they wanted to do it.
Yep

Timeouts were called, so things could be explained, because for some this was a first.
Ran it.
Guns on until resign, no firing on resigned vehicles. And no matter who loses, they get their cars back.

It was a blast. Took FOREVER though.
Damn...still, everyone hung in all was civil.
But, new folks got to do PVP.!

And that should warm your cold bastard heart!
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Posted Mar 14, 2020, 6:43 am
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I'm glad you had fun (this kind of thing can happen in the squad combat leagues AND mean something).

But it's not meaningful. Because you cannot have a war or settle disputes in game, it doesn't matter. It matters in leagues, they are generally quickish events (sometimes Wars are fought in COE). But wilderness combats will never mean anything. Maybe for the best - because like you said they can take forever, with all the player posturing. The winner is often the guy with more time to park in a hill.

Also I have had players purposely time grief, which is against the rules Sam made.

I have personally moved on from wanting PvP endgame. But wimping out about townie leagues will get me posting on forums. This is a bridge too far.
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vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle199,78,26

Posted Mar 14, 2020, 5:59 pm
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