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State of the Game

jerf Bake Sale Boys Pedestrian Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: Apr 9, 2016 I've been playing for a few months now, and I've noticed a few things. I'm not certain how these things can be resolved, but it seems that some kind of resolution would help revitalize the new player base to some degree. Disagree if you will - this is just one man's opinion. 1. There are no mid-tier players. It seems there are only the super-experienced and an ever-rotating group of newbies. The super experienced are too busy to scout with anyone, or alternatively they will decline to scout if someone is using some car configuration that is not to their liking or if there "are too many players/vehicles". This leaves a whole bunch of new players continually looking and it seems that while super experienced players mostly want efficient group scouts, new players want group scouts that are exciting and fun. This disconnect seems to cause lots of churn amongst new players and I wonder which group is out of touch with the core of the game's ideals. 2. Too many group scouts descend into chaos and leave people hating each other. I've been watching a lot of recordings, specifically focused on the ones where things went south and it ended up as a footsquad. Many of them end up with all the players accusing each other of not following "the plan" and, in many cases, one player simply runs away from the others to save his own vehicle. There are exceptions of course, but if you're new to the game and you just got called out by a grognard for the configuration of your vehicle, then you manage to get into a scout and they're calling you out for not understanding how to form a firing line...you're likely to just close darkwind forever and never return. The ultimate realization of this setup is just as it is now, nobody stays long enough to graduate from newbie due to their interactions. 3. Getting into trading at any level that is close to profitable requires lorries/buzzers. There exists on the wiki some advice somewhere that a single van with a 3.2LV8 is a great solo trader because it can outrun anything. I tried it and had 3 different road encounters from SS to EL. I've never had that many encounters in one trip and I regularly run barely profitable voyagers/phoenixes between those cities. I made it...barely....but the experience has turned me off to any sort of trading at scale and moving up to the major leagues of trading seems to be impossible without devoting 5 years of my life to the game and possibly enduring several stress-related ulcers along the way. 4. I know it will never be fixed, but the game client configuration seems to actively discourage chat amongst players. I have 20 seconds and a tiny little window to type things into and to see messages from other players. I hoped for some kind of banter there, as might have been expected from a MMO sort of game. Instead, chat is often limited to the most perfunctory "turning left", "targeting enforcer" sort of stuff. I've been playing daily since April and the most anyone has ever said to me involved how they refused to scout with me because I wanted to bring a symphony. That is undeniably bogus. Anyway, there is more, but I suddenly don't care enough to finish. I expect the response will be something along the lines of how I don't understand, or how I'm part of the problem, or a basic "shut up noob" kind of response. So it goes I suppose. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 13, 2016, 5:28 pm Last edited Jun 13, 2016, 7:16 pm by jerf

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 I trade run with unarmed 3.2l spirits with off-road tyres. I can only carry 118 cargo, but can make 5-7K per run for 3-4 cars and the remaining 3-4 can make 3-4K each (all carrying mail). I can turn the trade runs around in a day and so in a week I can easily make 100-150K a week. Each of those scout runs nets scout skill and if I spin out the encounter I can gain a driver skill. Until you get a scout with decent skill you will be pulling 2-3 encounters per trip. On the upside each of those encounters will net you a scout skill, so eventually (at 50-100 skill) you will start only getting a single encounter, or sometimes even none. This isn't quick, but it is consistent. If you are patient you can make some decent profits and skill up gangers relatively quickly. If you pull up my wilderness encounters you will see how I generally out manoeuvre the AI cars and escape safely. Some people consider this a boring play style, but some of my gangers are very elderly or infirm and it isn't fair to overly stress them. On your points regarding scouts. If a newb signs up to go along with a veteran and then ignores his instruction then he can hardly be surprised if they stop volunteering to instruct him (repeat this cycle too many times and you can see why vets stop offering to show newbs the ropes). Every car that doesn't pull it's weight in a scout still pulls in additional opponents. If the newb actually expects the vet to bail him out from his own foolishness (generally through lack of discipline) he has tripled his worthlessness to the group scout (not killing his share, attracting additional opponents and diverting the vet from killing his share). Playing solo I can turn around a game turn every 2-5 seconds. With a number of newbs it can take minutes every turn. We vets are often old guys with families. I can't take hours out of my day without raising the ire of my loved ones. I can turn around all my solo scouting (10 missions or so) during a single episode of octonauts, which is about as much free-time as I can get. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Jun 13, 2016, 7:14 pm

jerf Bake Sale Boys Pedestrian Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: Apr 9, 2016 So your response validates many of my concerns. Your response boils down to this: "Your game experience sucks because you're too inexperienced". That response, and the fact that its the first that came to your mind, is the core of the problem in my opinion. The game is aligned against new players and thus subscription rates will continue to decline until the day its all shut down. In a perfect world, experienced players would receive some sort of experience bonus to scouts which had a high number of inexperienced players participating. Or something of the sort - some way to get everyone out of their isolated worlds where they log into to move cars around, but only in as much time as a single episode of octonauts lasts. I realize it's a pointless thing to even discuss since no more modifications will be made to the game, however. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 13, 2016, 7:31 pm

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 I think you are reading into my post your own preconception. If you want me to say that the way to get more experience is by not doing anything, you will be disappointed. Every vet here started as a newb. Every vet here has played for weeks, months or years. There is no magic experience infusion. You have to do the time to learn this game. If you are not willing to do that then it isn't the game for you. If you cannot respect that other people have different requirements from the game, how can you expect anyone to respect yours? ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Jun 13, 2016, 7:54 pm

KingEridani Landless Gentry Sunday Driver Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: Oct 9, 2015 I would like to weigh in here, as I am the exact kind of player you are espousing as the 'discouraged-new-player-going-on-mid-tier'. jerf you see a problem that we can all agree exists; the lack of cohesion between experienced and unexperienced players. However I think you are taking it to a level of 'witch-hunting' that is unnecessary. The same vicious cycle of discontent (Vets who talk frustrated with noobs who dont listen, and noobs who listen frustrated with Vets who dont talk) exists in literally every game with a steep learning curve. On the point of the trading. This I believe is a symptom (like much else that ails us) of inactive development. To balance and tune a large economy for high and low-end profitability with accurately scaling difficulty is no easy task. @iornwraith. gunna be honest, that sounds tedious and less profitable than running combat scouts constantly. On what we can do about it. So inactive dev right? What I want to know is the exact agreement between X-Man and Sam. If X can phase out apes from appearing in the wilderness of SS, perhaps he can tweak the value numbers for trade goods. I would be interested to hear further proposals of a balanced solution to the lack of early-mid tier trading. This pointing fingers about communal teaching gets us no where. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 13, 2016, 8:04 pm Last edited Jun 13, 2016, 8:08 pm by KingEridani

JoniBoy Parents Association Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: Jun 25, 2013 Iron Wraith said: 1. There are no mid-tier players. Disagree, you might not notice yet who is a vet and who is not. Stay in the lobby, talk to people and you will notice the difference between super experienced and mid range players. Iron Wraith said: The super experienced are too busy to scout with anyone Agree, with time you realize that the best way to train your guys and make money is solo grinding. I don't like that side the game either. Iron Wraith said: they will decline to scout if someone is using some car configuration that is not to their liking Don't scout with assholes, vets know every car chassis can be used well and that the true difference is made by player and ganger skills. If you like watching recordings you might find a few pvp matches where the estates and trader vans defeated the mercs and the flails. Iron Wraith said: 2. Too many group scouts descend into chaos and leave people hating each other. I have been in many chaotic scouts but but never experienced the hate of other players, I have lost guys, they have too but we scout again. As I said, don't scout with assholes. Iron Wraith said: 3. Getting into trading at any level that is close to profitable requires lorries/buzzers.  I might agree to this but who wants to trade when the money is in the loot cars in SS Iron Wraith said: There exists on the wiki some advice somewhere that a single van with a 3.2LV8 is a great solo trader because it can outrun anything. I tried it and had 3 different road encounters from SS to EL. I've never had that many encounters in one trip and I regularly run barely profitable voyagers/phoenixes between those cities. I made it...barely....but the experience has turned me off to any sort of trading at scale and moving up to the major leagues of trading seems to be impossible without devoting 5 years of my life to the game and possibly enduring several stress-related ulcers along the way. LOL I tried once and got me a free trip to firelight. Never did again. Iron Wraith said: 4. I know it will never be fixed, but the game client configuration seems to actively discourage chat amongst players. I find it funny that among all the discouraging things in the game client you focus on the chat. Iron Wraith said: I have 20 seconds and a tiny little window to type things into and to see messages from other players. I hoped for some kind of banter there, as might have been expected from a MMO sort of game. Instead, chat is often limited to the most perfunctory "turning left", "targeting enforcer" sort of stuff. I've been playing daily since April and the most anyone has ever said to me involved how they refused to scout with me because I wanted to bring a symphony. That is undeniably bogus. It is true that often you don't have time to type, you might need to take a timeout if you wanna write something long (Ctr+t). You can try as well to propose a new turn length for that event but many players would disagree because makes games too long. Well, anyways. Welcome to darkwind, its good to see posts that intend to improve the game in some way. Soon you will realize that nothing will change. See you in the scouting room. ......................... vet wv sssc circuit3 raceL1 circuit1 circuit2 combatL1 pvp3 pvp2 pvp5 pvp1 e2g deathrceL1 Posted Jun 13, 2016, 8:26 pm

KingEridani Landless Gentry Sunday Driver Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: Oct 9, 2015 Quote: Well, anyways. Welcome to darkwind, its good to see posts that intend to improve the game in some way. Soon you will realize that nothing will change. Things are always changing, currently they're slowly sliding toward oblivion. By my prediction in three years time, this game will be a ghost of its currents self; which I've heard is already the ghost of a ghost. Something needs to actively change or this passive regression kills Darkwind. There are people (at least 1) with power to change things in the game. At the very least they can petition Sam for more power to change things. Although I do not savor the idea of doing it myself, it is not impossible to organize the players of the game (the consumers of the product) for some collective bargaining. Obviously before I get that far I have to ask if anyone has before (and in so also inquire so myself) enquired with X-Man as to what his powers are to change the game and why we haven't seen any progress. X, if you are reading this; Please take no offense. I'm sure there is reason behind the way things are. I do however hope you share in my belief that it is mere common decency to be forward and honest about the operation of a game you are developing. I know you aren't Sam but if I'm unmistaken you're basically the only conduit through which we might have any hope of effecting change. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 13, 2016, 8:43 pm Last edited Jun 13, 2016, 8:45 pm by KingEridani

Super Fluke Kaytis Killers Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: Aug 31, 2014 With attitudes like this are we going to see another PVP war? lol.  jerf said: 1. There are no mid-tier players. The way I see it you're either learning or a vet, there isn't much in between. jerf said: 2. Too many group scouts descend into chaos and leave people hating each other. In my 2 years I've rarely seen this. It's hardly a common occurrence. jerf said: 3. Getting into trading at any level that is close to profitable requires lorries/buzzers. SS loot cars is where we make the big bucks. Most of us tend to hold on to higher end gear. jerf said: 4. I know it will never be fixed, but the game client configuration seems to actively discourage chat amongst players. I'm not sure about you, But I don't want pointless banter and talk whilst we try and avoid losing an encounter. Lobbies are the place to talk, events are not. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 13, 2016, 9:27 pm Last edited Jun 13, 2016, 9:37 pm by Super Fluke

Racing Robbie The White Ashes Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: Jul 3, 2012 KingEridani said: Quote: Well, anyways. Welcome to darkwind, its good to see posts that intend to improve the game in some way. Soon you will realize that nothing will change. Things are always changing, currently they're slowly sliding toward oblivion. By my prediction in three years time, this game will be a ghost of its currents self; which I've heard is already the ghost of a ghost. Something needs to actively change or this passive regression kills . This a point I have thought about myself - to evolve and grow the game world needs to change. Not just perhaps the little things like new gangs and car designs - for the most part that tends to be the eye candy. But big world changing events like say a Mutant uprising where the mutants try to capture the Gateway region and take the town. Mass defences of the town, ambushes by mutant gangs etc etc Or Three factions start a fight over control of Gateway - say the Civs, Merchants and Truckstop  - and players actions make a difference to the outcome. Or the harvest fails in SS and the call goes out for food and in a hurry. I suppose my background in roleplaying games makes me want to see this sort of event happening, but certain things are much easier on paper to bring to life :-) PS I consider myself a mid-tier player, certainly not one of the super vets, though I do have some nice pieces of kit knocking around and won a few leagues. I still get beat and lose gangers regularly ......................... vet wv northernsummer e2g raceL1 deathrceL1 slay2013 pvp3 ww pvp1 semiprocombat0,1,0 Posted Jun 13, 2016, 10:22 pm

JoniBoy Parents Association Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: Jun 25, 2013 jerf, you just pened the Pandora Box. BTW, what about those fire extinguishers? ......................... vet wv sssc circuit3 raceL1 circuit1 circuit2 combatL1 pvp3 pvp2 pvp5 pvp1 e2g deathrceL1 Posted Jun 13, 2016, 11:11 pm

KingEridani Landless Gentry Sunday Driver Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: Oct 9, 2015 jerf said: 3. Getting into trading at any level that is close to profitable requires lorries/buzzers Joni said: I might agree to this but who wants to trade when the money is in the loot cars in SS fluke said: SS loot cars is where we make the big bucks. Most of us tend to hold on to higher end gear. I can understand the practical decision to ignore one mechanical aspect of the game entirely from the standpoint of 'things-will-never-change'. I'll likely abandon my Lorry plans pending the input from X/Sam. The aftertaste of these statements is quite sour; as a game designer its harsh to see entire mechanical systems being shunned for their obsolescence. Robbie said: Win, win and more win. I couldn't agree more. Not only do these 'world' level events carry significant immersion punch but for all, even to those disinclined to fantasy, it provides a communal gathering. An important facet for building culture. Perhaps such a gathering was once organically created by enough volume of players in game and in forum but thats certainly gone by. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 13, 2016, 11:15 pm Last edited Jun 13, 2016, 11:18 pm by KingEridani

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Scouting was an add on and busted this game. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Jun 13, 2016, 11:42 pm

JoniBoy Parents Association Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: Jun 25, 2013 If it was an addon, how were you supposed to skill your guys up? ......................... vet wv sssc circuit3 raceL1 circuit1 circuit2 combatL1 pvp3 pvp2 pvp5 pvp1 e2g deathrceL1 Posted Jun 13, 2016, 11:44 pm

d0dger an0maly Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,492 Joined: Jan 24, 2010 JoniBoy said: jerf, you just pened the Pandora Box. BTW, what about those fire extinguishers? I still want my motorcycles for my cyclist skill, and whatever happened to 'into the ruins'? ......................... vet wv combat1 combatL1 paintladder pvp5 sssc deathrceL1 pvp4 zom race1 semiprocombat deathrce1 raceL1 pvp3 pvp2 ww pvp1 paintball santa2 gwped4,16,10 Posted Jun 14, 2016, 12:31 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 jerf said: I've been playing for a few months now, and I've noticed a few things. I'm not certain how these things can be resolved, but it seems that some kind of resolution would help revitalize the new player base to some degree. Disagree if you will - this is just one man's opinion. 1. There are no mid-tier players. It seems there are only the super-experienced and an ever-rotating group of newbies. The super experienced are too busy to scout with anyone, or alternatively they will decline to scout if someone is using some car configuration that is not to their liking or if there "are too many players/vehicles". This leaves a whole bunch of new players continually looking and it seems that while super experienced players mostly want efficient group scouts, new players want group scouts that are exciting and fun. This disconnect seems to cause lots of churn amongst new players and I wonder which group is out of touch with the core of the game's ideals. There are enough of each player type, you just have to meet them thru events and scouts. Sure there are going to be more vets because thats is the main core base. There are vets that will take on new players, but you have to find the right player/scout where the amount of players and types meets your expectations or comfort zone. Remember, players don't play the game to lose. So if you don't follow instruction or tips from the squad leader, you can't be upset if you are not included. The same goes for tips and advice on what it takes to be successful. You go against those recommendations, players won't take you serious enough to include on future scouts. Your safe bet is to pair up with one vet and run a 2 player squad. Even if the new player gets into trouble, a vet can usually bail him out and still win the encounter. If things do go bad, please take the vets advice on changes the next go round. This is only done to keep new players from getting frustrated while increasing their knowledge from builds to tactics to make them successful. 2 player squads also allow for instruction during the event and keeps the encounter fluid enough to minimize delays multi player squads have. There are players out there willing to teach as long as you are willing to listen and learn. jerf said: 2. Too many group scouts descend into chaos and leave people hating each other. I've been watching a lot of recordings, specifically focused on the ones where things went south and it ended up as a footsquad. Many of them end up with all the players accusing each other of not following "the plan" and, in many cases, one player simply runs away from the others to save his own vehicle. There are exceptions of course, but if you're new to the game and you just got called out by a grognard for the configuration of your vehicle, then you manage to get into a scout and they're calling you out for not understanding how to form a firing line...you're likely to just close darkwind forever and never return. The ultimate realization of this setup is just as it is now, nobody stays long enough to graduate from newbie due to their interactions. Follow my above response to #1 and this becomes mute. jerf said: 3. Getting into trading at any level that is close to profitable requires lorries/buzzers. There exists on the wiki some advice somewhere that a single van with a 3.2LV8 is a great solo trader because it can outrun anything. I tried it and had 3 different road encounters from SS to EL. I've never had that many encounters in one trip and I regularly run barely profitable voyagers/phoenixes between those cities. I made it...barely....but the experience has turned me off to any sort of trading at scale and moving up to the major leagues of trading seems to be impossible without devoting 5 years of my life to the game and possibly enduring several stress-related ulcers along the way. Other players have already added comments on this. Scouting is where you make your money. Trade runs are not the profit jackpots any longer due to specific changes in game. You can still do them, just takes more work with more risk... as it should be. jerf said: 4. I know it will never be fixed, but the game client configuration seems to actively discourage chat amongst players. I have 20 seconds and a tiny little window to type things into and to see messages from other players. I hoped for some kind of banter there, as might have been expected from a MMO sort of game. Instead, chat is often limited to the most perfunctory "turning left", "targeting enforcer" sort of stuff. I've been playing daily since April and the most anyone has ever said to me involved how they refused to scout with me because I wanted to bring a symphony. That is undeniably bogus. Anyway, there is more, but I suddenly don't care enough to finish. I expect the response will be something along the lines of how I don't understand, or how I'm part of the problem, or a basic "shut up noob" kind of response. So it goes I suppose. There are many ways to chat, especially during events/scouts. Sometimes typing takes to long in large groups. Thats why I recommend smaller squads. Event timers and be changed to allow time for event typing. Use timeouts when needed so mistakes are not made. Use the Ventrilo if you have a headset/mic. It is free to Darkwind players to use and it is much easier/quicker using voice chat than typing. I highly recommend this if you can. One final tip... don't use a symphony to scout with. I don't blame the player for telling you that. Its been almost 4 years for me and I have never used a symphony in a scout... and that streak will continue. All players have different tactics and different ways to play DW. Thats what makes it fun and unique because there is no one set way on how it must be played. But with all these different players, there will be many different tips and advice given. Its what you choose to do with that knowledge that will make you successful and DW more fun for you. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Jun 14, 2016, 2:38 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 KingEridani said: Quote: Well, anyways. Welcome to darkwind, its good to see posts that intend to improve the game in some way. Soon you will realize that nothing will change. Things are always changing, currently they're slowly sliding toward oblivion. By my prediction in three years time, this game will be a ghost of its currents self; which I've heard is already the ghost of a ghost. Something needs to actively change or this passive regression kills Darkwind. There are people (at least 1) with power to change things in the game. At the very least they can petition Sam for more power to change things. Although I do not savor the idea of doing it myself, it is not impossible to organize the players of the game (the consumers of the product) for some collective bargaining. Obviously before I get that far I have to ask if anyone has before (and in so also inquire so myself) enquired with X-Man as to what his powers are to change the game and why we haven't seen any progress. X, if you are reading this; Please take no offense. I'm sure there is reason behind the way things are. I do however hope you share in my belief that it is mere common decency to be forward and honest about the operation of a game you are developing. I know you aren't Sam but if I'm unmistaken you're basically the only conduit through which we might have any hope of effecting change. Any ideas or suggestions can always be talked about here in the forums. When there is a lot of common interest within the player base on specific changes or additions, there are discussed further, then a proposal is submitted to Sam. The most recent item added was the fame and production boost prizes offered in specific leagues. The game is not locked on further development as a lot of players believe. But most of the proposed changes or additions these players want to see need to be a good benefit for the player base while not creating tons of additional man hours to implement. Most requests players make seem to fall into this category and appear as if nothing is being done behind the scenes. All players are free to PM me directly if they choose not to use the forums. All suggestions will be taken into consideration, but I do have enough info to know if it is worth pursuing. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Jun 14, 2016, 2:54 am

DirkNotSoGently Holistic Detective Agency Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: Nov 11, 2011 As an aside on scouting There are some who might consider me a "vet" given my (I believe) limited successes in game That aside, if someone else organises a scout, then it's their show - I will offer suggestions, but the plan is theirs and I *will* follow it - new players should do no less The lobby is where chat/banter occurs - for those of us who take things a little more seriously then ventrillo is where the majority of in-scout co-ordination occurs. The time limit on turns makes that doubly hard to do in typed chat. ......................... vet wv deathrce1 pvp5 pvp1 pvp2 circuit3 circuit2 Posted Jun 14, 2016, 10:32 am

DirkNotSoGently Holistic Detective Agency Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: Nov 11, 2011 On trading - there is only one form where this will really pay off - and it only matters once you are more experienced - that is transporting loot Once you are taking part in scouts from Badlands Truckstop or even further south, you will start to loot v8s, Heavy Gats etc. - and running those to Somerset for sale can be VERY profitable - but I certainly don't bother running food, fuel or other market fodder Some vets do this, however their effort involved in managing reps and arranging the convoys is done for the love of that event type - not purely for the profit. As mentioned above, looting a single good condition Phoenix will net you 20k to 25k profit - that's where the cash is. ......................... vet wv deathrce1 pvp5 pvp1 pvp2 circuit3 circuit2 Posted Jun 14, 2016, 10:37 am

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 DirkNotSoGently said: On trading - there is only one form where this will really pay off - and it only matters once you are more experienced - that is transporting loot Once you are taking part in scouts from Badlands Truckstop or even further south, you will start to loot v8s, Heavy Gats etc. - and running those to Somerset for sale can be VERY profitable - but I certainly don't bother running food, fuel or other market fodder Some vets do this, however their effort involved in managing reps and arranging the convoys is done for the love of that event type - not purely for the profit. As mentioned above, looting a single good condition Phoenix will net you 20k to 25k profit - that's where the cash is. Sorry Dirk- simply not true. I make around 300k from one squad every day by market trading in the northern triangle only. I could make more- but the extra risk isn't needed. Of course I have buzzer escorts, a NEG7 scout, and awesome gunners to be able to do this, and I'm not going to give away my secrets (NO exploits- just knowing what to take where) but my point is that there is nothing MORE profitable in the game than market trading food/water/fuel/car parts/weapons/plastics/EPs when you know how. You have to 'Learn to Earn' in DW but the early days in DW are far more diverse and fun than in other online games where you have to spend the first 6 weeks chopping wood to build enough strength to fight rabbits (ultima online that I played for 10 years and became a moderator) Nothing in life comes easy- and that includes games! ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Jun 14, 2016, 5:51 pm Last edited Jun 14, 2016, 6:00 pm by *Brunwulf*

Paul Simon Ceewolves Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: Jun 2, 2015 Brunwulf, IMO generating cash for the new player is the hardest thing to learn and the most depressing to a new player. I would strongly recommend you share some of your insights to help other players. I got by via the generosity of others until I could bring in enough loot to fund my operations. ......................... vet wv pvp2 Posted Jun 14, 2016, 7:01 pm

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