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Ammo Production

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 To really determine if this something that will be a benefit all players, we need input from as many camp owners as possible. If Sam sees there are enough requests on this thread, he could look into it further to see what it would take to fix or adjust. As it looks now, only the large camps with multiple factories would have the need or means to use this. Most players who want or have camps don't go in thinking, hey lets make ammo... to heck with buzzers. So this won't really benefit the small or independent camps. But, this still doesn't mean that it is not a good idea to fix. So I would suggest to you that you get the opinions from as many different camp owners as possible so Sam can see this as a fix for the many and not just a few or one. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Dec 16, 2015, 7:02 pm

*Splurs* Splurs Scroungers Racer Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 163 Joined: Dec 17, 2012 I have no doubts in my mind at all that this will only benifit a handful of camps, most people will still lorry it in, as they have better things to make, as you said Quote: Most players who want or have camps don't go in thinking, hey lets make ammo... to heck with buzzers. However the ammo making system is horribly broken and for those that want camps to be self sufficient making ammo goes along way. Would I personally sacrifice making buzzers for ammo, no I would not, however I would sacrifice a percentage of the buzzer to make ammo so I dont need to haul it in. Quote: So I would suggest to you that you get the opinions from as many different camp owners as possible so Sam can see this as a fix for the many and not just a few or one Is this not what just happened with the rep system? A few or one were using unarmoured lorries, it was deemed not the intent of the game, so it got changed? I fail to see how it benefited the majority of the player base. A few seem to want to use the camps to their full extent and cannot, because someone else exploited it in the past. Now I know some people are going to get on their high horse and say "Just lorry ammo in, it isn't that hard!" They are right, it isn't hard to lorry in, I even done it into camp with a 1L engine in a lorry, however that isn't the point. "Hey Marty, drive that lorry back into town and pick up some more ammo, we got factories sitting idle here but the town sells it alot cheaper than we can even make it, and it will be weeks before we even make 1 Car cannon round...." Not asking for anything new, just the broken things to be fixed. ......................... vet wv marshal Posted Dec 16, 2015, 7:22 pm

PA Racers PA Racers Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 1,005 Joined: Feb 11, 2010 Splurs said: I have no doubts in my mind at all that this will only benifit a handful of camps, most people will still lorry it in, as they have better things to make, as you said Quote: Most players who want or have camps don't go in thinking, hey lets make ammo... to heck with buzzers. However the ammo making system is horribly broken and for those that want camps to be self sufficient making ammo goes along way. Would I personally sacrifice making buzzers for ammo, no I would not, however I would sacrifice a percentage of the buzzer to make ammo so I dont need to haul it in. Quote: So I would suggest to you that you get the opinions from as many different camp owners as possible so Sam can see this as a fix for the many and not just a few or one Is this not what just happened with the rep system? A few or one were using unarmoured lorries, it was deemed not the intent of the game, so it got changed? I fail to see how it benefited the majority of the player base. A few seem to want to use the camps to their full extent and cannot, because someone else exploited it in the past. Now I know some people are going to get on their high horse and say "Just lorry ammo in, it isn't that hard!" They are right, it isn't hard to lorry in, I even done it into camp with a 1L engine in a lorry, however that isn't the point. "Hey Marty, drive that lorry back into town and pick up some more ammo, we got factories sitting idle here but the town sells it alot cheaper than we can even make it, and it will be weeks before we even make 1 Car cannon round...." Not asking for anything new, just the broken things to be fixed. I agree with pretty much everything said here! When your camp is 770 miles from town such as againcourt, hauling it in is not as easy. ......................... vet wv ww northernsummer gwextrav gateautumn raceL1 race1 elmsautumn deathrceL1 e2g santa1 paintladder paintball pvp1 pvp4 pvp3 deathrce1 pvp2 combat1 circuit2 circuit3 circuit1 pvp528,161,23 Posted Dec 16, 2015, 7:39 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Splurs said: I have no doubts in my mind at all that this will only benifit a handful of camps, most people will still lorry it in, as they have better things to make, as you said Quote: Most players who want or have camps don't go in thinking, hey lets make ammo... to heck with buzzers. However the ammo making system is horribly broken and for those that want camps to be self sufficient making ammo goes along way. Would I personally sacrifice making buzzers for ammo, no I would not, however I would sacrifice a percentage of the buzzer to make ammo so I dont need to haul it in. Quote: So I would suggest to you that you get the opinions from as many different camp owners as possible so Sam can see this as a fix for the many and not just a few or one Is this not what just happened with the rep system? A few or one were using unarmoured lorries, it was deemed not the intent of the game, so it got changed? I fail to see how it benefited the majority of the player base. A few seem to want to use the camps to their full extent and cannot, because someone else exploited it in the past. Now I know some people are going to get on their high horse and say "Just lorry ammo in, it isn't that hard!" They are right, it isn't hard to lorry in, I even done it into camp with a 1L engine in a lorry, however that isn't the point. "Hey Marty, drive that lorry back into town and pick up some more ammo, we got factories sitting idle here but the town sells it alot cheaper than we can even make it, and it will be weeks before we even make 1 Car cannon round...." Not asking for anything new, just the broken things to be fixed. The difference here is one fixed an exploit while the other is fixing a feature. Two totally different things. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Dec 16, 2015, 9:58 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 PA Racers said: When your camp is 770 miles from town such as againcourt, hauling it in is not as easy. These are the type of comments or opinions we need to show good reason why a change is needed. I hope others can add to this. The more good and valid points made here helps move things towards a change or fix. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Dec 16, 2015, 10:02 pm

Krakhedd FAQ Crew Autodueller Morgan Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 351 Joined: Aug 19, 2012 *The X Man* said: The difference here is one fixed an exploit while the other is fixing a feature. Two totally different things. Not for nothing, but it was only deemed an "exploit" after a small core of players to whom Sam listens, made enough noise, that it became less stressful for him to change it. As it is, reps appear to have been returned to pre-change condition - which itself might be a suggestion that "fix" was also less than ideal. I'm glad for the new renegades though, they make it interesting.  Though I'd like to see them be truceable vs. neg spec, and I'm not sure I've seen one that's bountied yet.  Oh, and it would be nice to have the gang pages updated so they don't say they're raiders still, when they're renegades (Mobsters, for one). But yeah this really is all about self-sufficiency, from my perspective. ......................... vet wv raceL1 pvp3 paintball9,2,9 Posted Dec 17, 2015, 5:05 am Last edited Dec 17, 2015, 6:07 am by Krakhedd

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,008 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 it doesnt affect me or my camp so i say dont change it, i could care less what big camp owners want, there are alot more important things to change imo, just quit yer bitching and deal with what we have *gives everyone the middle finger* ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Dec 17, 2015, 6:16 am

Krakhedd FAQ Crew Autodueller Morgan Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 351 Joined: Aug 19, 2012 darthspanky said: it doesnt affect me or my camp so i say dont change it, i could care less what big camp owners want, there are alot more important things to change imo, just quit yer bitching and deal with what we have *gives everyone the middle finger* ...sounds community-conscious, to me! ......................... vet wv raceL1 pvp3 paintball9,2,9 Posted Dec 17, 2015, 6:56 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I will take a look at the ammo thing, I can see that it's out of whack with weapons manufacturing costs. Krakhedd said: *The X Man* said: The difference here is one fixed an exploit while the other is fixing a feature. Two totally different things. Not for nothing, but it was only deemed an "exploit" after a small core of players to whom Sam listens, made enough noise, that it became less stressful for him to change it. However, please stop dredging this one up, Krak. I have already refuted your claim and stated that the travel exploit was always considered to be an exploit by me. As I said before, the very concept of risk-free travel across the whole game map is totally contrary to everything I had ever wanted the game to be. To claim that it should ever be seen by me as a feature rather than a bug is patently ridiculous. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Dec 17, 2015, 10:16 am Last edited Dec 17, 2015, 10:17 am by *sam*

Racing Robbie The White Ashes Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: Jul 3, 2012 Krakhedd said: I'm glad for the new renegades though, they make it interesting.  Though I'd like to see them be truceable vs. neg spec, and I'm not sure I've seen one that's bountied yet.  Oh, and it would be nice to have the gang pages updated so they don't say they're raiders still, when they're renegades (Mobsters, for one). The new renegades are the ones listed in the gazette, Mobsters as far as I know are still of the raider faction. The gang web page I believe is an error but Sam will have to confirm that. I suspect they will have to earn their bounties like everyone else :-) ......................... vet wv northernsummer e2g raceL1 deathrceL1 slay2013 pvp3 ww pvp1 semiprocombat0,1,0 Posted Dec 17, 2015, 2:42 pm

Krakhedd FAQ Crew Autodueller Morgan Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 351 Joined: Aug 19, 2012 *sam* said: I will take a look at the ammo thing, I can see that it's out of whack with weapons manufacturing costs. Let us know if you want help! ......................... vet wv raceL1 pvp3 paintball9,2,9 Posted Dec 17, 2015, 6:49 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Krakhedd said: *sam* said: I will take a look at the ammo thing, I can see that it's out of whack with weapons manufacturing costs. Let us know if you want help! im sure if he needs a ditch digging you will be somewhere on the list of people to call. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Dec 18, 2015, 1:13 am

Krakhedd FAQ Crew Autodueller Morgan Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 351 Joined: Aug 19, 2012 goat starer said: Krakhedd said: *sam* said: I will take a look at the ammo thing, I can see that it's out of whack with weapons manufacturing costs. Let us know if you want help! im sure if he needs a ditch digging you will be somewhere on the list of people to call. Well if I wanted a helpful comment, or anything constructive, I know not to ask you ......................... vet wv raceL1 pvp3 paintball9,2,9 Posted Dec 18, 2015, 5:53 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 *The X Man* said: PA Racers said: When your camp is 770 miles from town such as againcourt, hauling it in is not as easy. These are the type of comments or opinions we need to show good reason why a change is needed. I hope others can add to this. The more good and valid points made here helps move things towards a change or fix. You mean other than the fact it costs $1477 to make 1 CC reload (not counting the materiels needed to make it) and it only costs $126 in town to buy it?  Which makes no economic sense whatsoever unless the NPCs are Harry Potter and use their Magical PSI Skills (spells) to "Summon CC Ammo" and keep it in their "Bag of Endless Ammo Holding" for selling in SS? I would have moved my who gang to FLinT (now called Bullet Farm) back when I first got a camp, but I couldn't since camps find it impossible to be self sufficient and need Ammo hauled in.  I could have covered food and water but the Ammo issue was a slap in the face.  I can make 14 SMGs a day but SMG ammo...  2.  It was cheaper and faster to make the weapon and discard it when it ran out of ammo ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 19, 2015, 1:50 am Last edited Dec 19, 2015, 1:55 am by *StCrispin*

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 darthspanky said: it doesnt affect me or my camp so i say dont change it, i could care less what big camp owners want, there are alot more important things to change imo, just quit yer bitching and deal with what we have *gives everyone the middle finger* Make Weapons and Buzzers take equally unrealistic times to produce as ammo and see who starts crying then. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 19, 2015, 1:52 am

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,008 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 go ahead and make times longer i dont care it would only cause you to bitch more so i say do it and ill just enjoy watching you bitch about that. ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Dec 19, 2015, 6:18 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 *sam* said: I will take a look at the ammo thing, I can see that it's out of whack with weapons manufacturing costs. Krakhedd said: *The X Man* said: The difference here is one fixed an exploit while the other is fixing a feature. Two totally different things. Not for nothing, but it was only deemed an "exploit" after a small core of players to whom Sam listens, made enough noise, that it became less stressful for him to change it. However, please stop dredging this one up, Krak. I have already refuted your claim and stated that the travel exploit was always considered to be an exploit by me. As I said before, the very concept of risk-free travel across the whole game map is totally contrary to everything I had ever wanted the game to be. To claim that it should ever be seen by me as a feature rather than a bug is patently ridiculous. In the interest of Accuracy and such, I wanted to mention that 2 years ago this was not considered an exploit.  It was just an unplanned result of game balance issue that needed fixed. as shown in a December 2013 post: *Sam* said: This seems like a game balancing issue rather than an exploit as such. However, it does need to be fixed. This is a good suggestion: *Snipe* said: A relatively easy fix. Raiders should NEVER truce.  They are raiders, who needs friends? Also think that slavers shouldn't truce either, they are too busy trying to bring home the slaves. This system would fail given just one or 2 factions with the inability to truce out.  And having a few wild cards will make the system in question disintegrate. Thanks for the newest fix though.  Hopefully it helps ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 20, 2015, 8:05 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Apparently, you didn't read or understand what Sam said Crispin. Sam said the rep issue needed balancing. The risk free travel exploit, Sam said was always an exploit. Now that makes it accurate. So stop dry humping the dead horse here and please move along to your ammo production spreadsheet... that is what this thread is supposed to be about?? ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Dec 20, 2015, 9:03 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 An unplanned game balancing issue that needs to be fixed. And in the meantime is being exploited. Yep. That's precisely what an exploit is. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Dec 20, 2015, 11:04 am

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 *sam* said: An unplanned game balancing issue that needs to be fixed. And in the meantime is being exploited. Yep. That's precisely what an exploit is. Maybe there could be a list of known exploits put up for all players to see- then have no excuses if they get caught, and would also be a definate word from SAM on what the difference between an exploit, and a 'clever trick' is- eg: the lorry travel unmanned trick. ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 20, 2015, 12:43 pm

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