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Really want to like this game...

Logan Kurtiss Crash Clowns Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Aug 30, 2014 ... but after a month, I can't. It's buggy, the community has a LOT of trolls in the lobby and most of all, the works around the bugs (that most veterans blame on stupid AI) has me honestly feeling abused by the game... To help express my point I'm just going to give a referal to Extra Credits' Challlenging vs. Punishing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs This game is on the wrong side of that line. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2014, 7:17 pm

Tallus Fatalis Foedi Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 175 Joined: Aug 30, 2014 Well, I'm just now thinking of resubbing my month's subscription. Seen a couple of bugs -- still need to report an instance of non-newtonian physics -- but think the game is great. I've run into a couple of annoying trolls in the lobby, and a couple player killers in non-league deathraces, but hard to complain too much about it when we're talking about a game that models itself after Mad Max's society. But then I always wanted to like Car Wars. ......................... vet wv ped2 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 7:25 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2014, 7:28 pm by Tallus

Logan Kurtiss Crash Clowns Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Aug 30, 2014 Tallus said: Well, I'm just now thinking of resubbing my month's subscription. Seen a couple  of bugs -- still need to report an instance of non-newtonian physics -- but think the game is great. I've run into a couple of annoying trolls in the lobby, and a couple player killers in non-league deathraces, but hard to complain too much about it when we're talking about a game that models itself after Mad Max's society. But then I always wanted to like Car Wars. I already love Car Wars... It's one of the reasons I want to like this game, but this game is not like any Car Wars game I ever played... It's like playing Car Wars with a sadistic and inconsistant GM. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2014, 7:32 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 You have clearly been playing another game old bean. I don't know what the lobby is like in your time zone but it is civil and helpful when I am on. Having played the game for 7 years I see no game breaking bugs. This game is the best car wars reimagining around and most of the older players are hardcore Car wars players who found the game through jimmys site and stayed. The game has a steep learning curve but becomes if anything rather easy. That said it is a game that requires patience, creativity, teamwork, tactics, role play and a tough hide to get the most out of it. If that isn't you... And lots of people find it isnt, then it's not the game for you. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 8:14 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2014, 8:21 pm by goat starer

Logan Kurtiss Crash Clowns Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Aug 30, 2014 goat starer said: You have clearly been playing another game old bean. I don't know what the lobby is like in your time zone but it is civil and helpful when I am on. Having played the game for 7 years I see no game breaking bugs. This game is the best car wars reimagining around and most of the older players are hardcore Car wars players who found the game through jimmys site and stayed. The game has a steep learning curve but becomes if anything rather easy. That said it is a game that requires patience, creativity, teamwork, tactics, role play and a tough hide to get the most out of it. If that isn't you... And lots of people find it isnt, then it's not the game for you. You list  several trait requirements that just support my claim that this is punishing... and I've experienced more than one game breaking bug, as well as events that stack the odds so against me that only pure luck will save anything, and the enemy are already in firing range when it starts. Yeah, I know.. The veteran answer to this is, "Well, you got ambushed" but that's BS... That's the game trying to create no-win situations and I don't believe in nor do I enjoy playing no win situations... and it's not a high learning curve.. It's actually kinda easy... It's that there is no apparent difficulty curve that fits new players so the answer again, often given by veterans is to tell new players that for months, they should just train their gangers, stick to in town events and only go out when their hand is being held by a veteran, which is NOT what I am looking for in a game. And teamwork?.. If I can't play a game solo and I must depend on others to get anything done, I am also not interested. Finally, I been flamed repeatedly.. I mention a bug in the lobby within my first few days and everyone there assumes I'm a moron and starts telling me how to do exactly what I am telling them does not work and is bugged, claiming left and right that it's not a problem becasuse they are not experiencing, so I message Sam Directly with no response or aknowledgement, so eventually I just posted it to the forum with a video to demonstrate the bug and low and behold Sam finds the problem really quick once it's actually shown that I am not out of F-ing mind and found a REAL bug. That's a lobby full of fanboy trolls, and what's worse, one of them I will not name even asked me to make a video to prove one of my points and then accused me of trying to pad my viewer count when I created just such a video on twitch for them to see and they refused to watch it.... There is nothing supportive, or friendly about all that... And what's more, the person, again unnamed that has demanding I need their help and they want to help noobs is one of the biggest jerks I've run into. There are a few cool people I've met... Most are not, and it only takes a couple trolls in a chatroom not being kept in check by moderators or marshals as they call them on here to make a whole chatroom very UNINVITING. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2014, 8:35 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2014, 8:37 pm by Logan Kurtiss

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 i have never seen an unwinnable or escapable scout in SS except where people brought unusable cars. This game is not that hard. Bit of tactics and a bit of common sense and its a doddle. and before you start accusing me of being a vet who cant remember what it was like I have started the game 4 times from scratch and built a scav gang from scratch. I have played ss as a new player many times and there have been no significant bugs that render the game unplayable / unenjoyable.. no unfair event spawns... nothing that matches your description of your experience. That said.. like I said it is not for everyone. If its not for you then nothing will keep you here. Posting negative comments in here wont make it better for you. That just puts you in the 'troll' camp. EDIT: JS and necro... whoever it is or is not I cant help feeling you just proved his point about trolling. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 8:59 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2014, 9:09 pm by goat starer

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 Logan Kurtiss said: goat starer said: You have clearly been playing another game old bean. I don't know what the lobby is like in your time zone but it is civil and helpful when I am on. Having played the game for 7 years I see no game breaking bugs. This game is the best car wars reimagining around and most of the older players are hardcore Car wars players who found the game through jimmys site and stayed. The game has a steep learning curve but becomes if anything rather easy. That said it is a game that requires patience, creativity, teamwork, tactics, role play and a tough hide to get the most out of it. If that isn't you... And lots of people find it isnt, then it's not the game for you. You list  several trait requirements that just support my claim that this is punishing... and I've experienced more than one game breaking bug, as well as events that stack the odds so against me that only pure luck will save anything, and the enemy are already in firing range when it starts. Yeah, I know.. The veteran answer to this is, "Well, you got ambushed" but that's BS... That's the game trying to create no-win situations and I don't believe in nor do I enjoy playing no win situations... and it's not a high learning curve.. It's actually kinda easy... It's that there is no apparent difficulty curve that fits new players so the answer again, often given by veterans is to tell new players that for months, they should just train their gangers, stick to in town events and only go out when their hand is being held by a veteran, which is NOT what I am looking for in a game. And teamwork?.. If I can't play a game solo and I must depend on others to get anything done, I am also not interested. Finally, I been flamed repeatedly.. I mention a bug in the lobby within my first few days and everyone there assumes I'm a moron and starts telling me how to do exactly what I am telling them does not work and is bugged, claiming left and right that it's not a problem becasuse they are not experiencing, so I message Sam Directly with no response or aknowledgement, so eventually I just posted it to the forum with a video to demonstrate the bug and low and behold Sam finds the problem really quick once it's actually shown that I am not out of F-ing mind and found a REAL bug. That's a lobby full of fanboy trolls, and what's worse, one of them I will not name even asked me to make a video to prove one of my points and then accused me of trying to pad my viewer count when I created just such a video on twitch for them to see and they refused to watch it.... There is nothing supportive, or friendly about all that... And what's more, the person, again unnamed that has demanding I need their help and they want to help noobs is one of the biggest jerks I've run into. There are a few cool people I've met... Most are not, and it only takes a couple trolls in a chatroom not being kept in check by moderators or marshals as they call them on here to make a whole chatroom very UNINVITING. Hello Juan. Do you ever tire of this? ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 8:59 pm

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 Bug finding.. is all good. However, I do not see the punishing part... unless one is not prepared. This game will beat on you hard for that. Ambushes.... part of the game, did you know you can ambush the AI too? Depends on your scout level. Solo play... yes you can... fairly easily, just must be patient and attentive. In most cases here, I am going to go with the Challenging side vs punishing. I would take the time, learn the subtle bits about the game. And on the chance that you are indeed Juan/LSD/Grimm,.... Have a nice day, trailer man. ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 9:04 pm

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 goat starer said: EDIT: JS and necro... whoever it is or is not I cant help feeling you just proved his point about trolling. I considered that.  But the complaints are exactly the same, but given from a "new" player perspective.  Except that the way they were couched and the knowledge underlying the comments appears to be beyond a new players possible understanding.  In any event, at this point a "Juan" is anyone who exhibits this kind of haughty critique style. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 9:25 pm

Logan Kurtiss Crash Clowns Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Aug 30, 2014 JS said: Hello Juan. Do you ever tire of this? Pucker up and kiss my backside... I'm not this fricken Juan and I resent being accused of being someone else that you all already clearly have an issue with... infact, I was accused of being Juan about 20 times when I was trying to explain the bug that everyone denied existed till i proved it by video and Sam found it. I am a player that arrived a month ago, went Premium and am a very disappointed paying customer and not a returning person you have a grudge against. And @Necro.... I'm a 46 year old gamer that has been into both tabletop RPGs and playing video games since '78... I learn very fast.. I am sick of both being accused of knowing too much to be a noob or being too noob to know the difference between a bug and a feature... I can't be both and both are insulting to me. Heck, I'll go as far as tooting my horn here and outright tell you folks I'm a certified genius and not the stupid noob some of you seem to think I am.. I have also been a playtester for Steve Jackson Games and White Wolf Studios as well as a beta tester on many an MMO.... I am not new to games, confused about what is or isn't a bug, and I have a very good idea of what makes or breaks a game, as I been studying game design for 25 years now. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 2, 2014, 9:44 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2014, 9:45 pm by Logan Kurtiss

Crazy AL Street Pizza Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,228 Joined: Feb 14, 2008 I watched the video you linked and I agree with it's sentiment where challenging games are fun and punishing games are not so much fun. Thanks for finding whatever bug it was, too. I would like more specific information as to what you regard the punishing portion of this game to be in your opinion and what you would consider a win is vs. what a lose is in DW. ......................... vet wv zom pvp1 ped1 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 9:48 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2014, 9:49 pm by Crazy AL

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Not to everyone's taste. It can be hard at times and yes it can be f^$%&% frustrating when it bugs out and puts your people at risk. The fact that the game is hard on mistakes makes it especially annoying when it is the game that makes the mistake and your gangers suffer for it. Then again, it's better than not being able to play a table top version as all your friends have moved away. It's still a hell of a lot better than nothing ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 9:50 pm

Flaming savage Mirrored Pain Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,788 Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Gents rather than start another spat can we take the points he has made and consider them moving forward? Arguing is in no case beneficial to the game or community. ......................... vet wv raceL1 pvp2 combatL1 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 9:55 pm

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 I agree with this sentiment. What have you seen specifically that is Punishing v. Challenging? I am a mite bit curious. Crazy AL said: I watched the video you linked and I agree with it's sentiment where challenging games are fun and punishing games are not so much fun. Thanks for finding whatever bug it was, too. I would like more specific information as to what you regard the punishing portion of this game to be in your opinion and what you would consider a win is vs. what a lose is in DW. ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 10:03 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Agree. Thank him for his consideration and move on. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 10:04 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Flaming savage said: Gents rather than start another spat can we take the points he has made and consider them moving forward? Arguing is in no case beneficial to the game or community. Yep, good point Sav  ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 10:19 pm

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 Logan Kurtiss said: JS said: Hello Juan. Do you ever tire of this? Pucker up and kiss my backside... I'm not this fricken Juan and I resent being accused of being someone else that you all already clearly have an issue with... infact, I was accused of being Juan about 20 times when I was trying to explain the bug that everyone denied existed till i proved it by video and Sam found it. I am a player that arrived a month ago, went Premium and am a very disappointed paying customer and not a returning person you have a grudge against. And @Necro.... I'm a 46 year old gamer that has been into both tabletop RPGs and playing video games since '78... I learn very fast.. I am sick of both being accused of knowing too much to be a noob or being too noob to know the difference between a bug and a feature... I can't be both and both are insulting to me. Heck, I'll go as far as tooting my horn here and outright tell you folks I'm a certified genius and not the stupid noob some of you seem to think I am.. I have also been a playtester for Steve Jackson Games and White Wolf Studios as well as a beta tester on many an MMO.... I am not new to games, confused about what is or isn't a bug, and I have a very good idea of what makes or breaks a game, as I been studying game design for 25 years now. Juan confirmed. So so much Juan. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 10:27 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 JS said: Logan Kurtiss said: JS said: Hello Juan. Do you ever tire of this? Pucker up and kiss my backside... I'm not this fricken Juan and I resent being accused of being someone else that you all already clearly have an issue with... infact, I was accused of being Juan about 20 times when I was trying to explain the bug that everyone denied existed till i proved it by video and Sam found it. I am a player that arrived a month ago, went Premium and am a very disappointed paying customer and not a returning person you have a grudge against. And @Necro.... I'm a 46 year old gamer that has been into both tabletop RPGs and playing video games since '78... I learn very fast.. I am sick of both being accused of knowing too much to be a noob or being too noob to know the difference between a bug and a feature... I can't be both and both are insulting to me. Heck, I'll go as far as tooting my horn here and outright tell you folks I'm a certified genius and not the stupid noob some of you seem to think I am.. I have also been a playtester for Steve Jackson Games and White Wolf Studios as well as a beta tester on many an MMO.... I am not new to games, confused about what is or isn't a bug, and I have a very good idea of what makes or breaks a game, as I been studying game design for 25 years now. Juan confirmed. So so much Juan. ah well JS .. i tried to be reasonable - it was part of my therapy - but i'm with you now.. guy is clearly so far up his own arse he can see out of his mouth  move along people.. nothing to see here ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 10:29 pm Last edited Oct 2, 2014, 10:29 pm by goat starer

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 I knew Goat was around here somewhere... ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 10:34 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 JS said: I knew Goat was around here somewhere... :-) TRIP TRAP TRIP TRAP ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 2, 2014, 10:36 pm

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