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Premium training centres

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 My training performance has not changed one tiny jot. Wild conclusions it is ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 3:58 pm

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 The form flattening is a huge deal that is skewing the numbers in quite the negative fashion. d0dger said: *sam* said: Just to clarify: $ training has not been nerfed. You're drawing wild conclusions from small amounts of data and hidden numbers. Its true that the flattening of form swings would have reduced the effect of motivator, but that was 2 months ago.. yet it's only noticed now. I could reinstate the original form parameters and out-of-town hours if that's what people want. Both were removed in order to make things less random and therefore reduce confusion and complaints.  Sam, _something_ has changed.. I've seen the same types of results that Joel and St. Crispin are reporting comparing 3 weeks ago to the last 2 weeks... It's not wild conclusions. ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 7:49 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 ya the train form nerf was a while ago...makes sense we notice it now...right? ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 7:55 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 With the training form adjusted, your motivator will be unable to give the same type of skill boosts. That explains the drop in training where 5-6 points are now 3-4. As Sam said, motivator has not been nerfed, it just has a smaller number now to calculate the training boost. So Joel and Crispin are correct that these numbers have dropped, but due to a different reason. My training this week was better than last week. I used no chrome and got my 5-6 bumps like I used to. Plus, my one freak bump last week that got a 7 in Psi, this week he got 9. I must be lucky to have them training with a very high form at the moment, but it will drop and level out eventually. For me, I don't care either way if this change stays or gets voted back. But I did like the varied training because you had to plan what guys go to what towns that had training centers. You were kind of rewarded in that regard, but you also suffered for the ones who were neglected or left without a center to go to. I also understand some players feel the pinch more than others, especially the ones who rely more on weekly training because actual game play is minimal. The casual player. IMO, needs to be catered to a little bit more because these changes could affect their desire to play and subscribe. The daily players and grinders, well, we are all addicted and should be sent to Elms for rehab! So no worrying about our subscriptions being renewed! But I would still suggest to put it to a vote to really see what the player base wants. Hang in there Sam, this topic is gonna test your tolerance level once again ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 8:11 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Sure... that's just saying it another way. Basically Motivator is no big whop now. It wasnt nerfed....but all the mechanic surrounding it were. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 9:01 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Joel Autobaun said: Basically Motivator is no big whop now.  It wasnt nerfed....but all the mechanic surrounding it were. If the training form change was done without taking this into consideration, it would be an oversight that needs to be addressed. I know Joel has, and other players too, high end motivators that took a long time to train. And motivator is clearly the best spec in that skill set. Those characters, as they stand now, could be pretty worthless unless they have cross trained in other areas. If the training form is left as is, should the motivator spec be boosted to compensate?? Seems fair to do that or consider going back to the old form. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 9:59 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 For the record, I'm not crying about how unfair it is or anything. Just analyzing the program behavior with an eye for potential gripes from paying customers. I don't really care about training either way but if it's here and it costs real money and it has appearances of being a chrome sink then it could result in negative backlash from less dedicated players. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 10:19 pm Last edited Sep 20, 2014, 10:20 pm by *StCrispin*

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Most of these complaints don't seem to be about the CHR training rather a perceived nerf to the $DW training. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 10:39 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 My spin on a solution: Have an exhaustion/focus trait which affects training effectiveness.  One that is semi-obscured.  By this I mean have descriptions rather than percentages for the player to view.  In this way there is more range of effect for Motivator and training form status, as well as the transparency needed for a player to make the decision about spending real money for a training multiplier Example: Superior: 120% to 150% focus (1.25 to 1.5 training form) Excellent: 95% to 120% Average: 75% to 95% Poor: 50% to 75% Dismal: below 50% Travel, scouting, time spent in hospital, and wounds would all have an impact on this percentage (instead of activity % because missing a leg shouldn't mean I have 85% ability to study first aid techniques or study how to aim a gun.  It would impact the use of the skill, not the speed at which I lean the skill) ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 20, 2014, 10:43 pm Last edited Sep 20, 2014, 10:44 pm by *StCrispin*

*SmokeyKilla* The Wolf Spiders Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 224 Joined: Nov 1, 2013 i think the main problem is people are paying chrome for a random result ........maybe it should just be 5 chrome gets you 4 skill points 10 chrome gets you 9 skill points extra......... and motivator needs a better boost ......................... vet wv marshal paintball semiprocombat pvp5 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 12:44 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 *SmokeyKilla* said: i think the main problem is people are paying chrome for a random result ........maybe it should just be  5 chrome gets you 4 skill points 10 chrome gets you 9 skill points extra......... and motivator needs a better boost Forking out real money with no chance for failure... Then it's Pay-to-Win ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 1:18 am Last edited Sep 21, 2014, 1:21 am by *StCrispin*

*Maxxed* [v]@Xx3D []ut Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 961 Joined: May 20, 2010 As I understand it the chrome benefit is not random but a fixed bonus akin to having a motivator. I really like the randomness of skill development and think that it would be a shame if it became more predictable or was a fixed bonus. Basically you spend chrome on new characters with potential, to all but guarantee improved training form from the get go. ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 marshal pvp5 pvp20,0,1 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 4:11 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 *StCrispin* said: Forking out real money with no chance for failure... Then it's Pay-to-Win Getting a guaranteed additional 4 points of training with chrome... hows does that get you to "win"?? Something that small of an increment, even over a span of months doesn't guarantee you winning anything. Pay-To-Win would be buying a sniper 4 or pyro 4, buying that with chrome is winning because it has an immediate impact and advantage in the game and over other players. Keep these small micro transaction in perspective. They do not help you win. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 6:28 am

*SmokeyKilla* The Wolf Spiders Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 224 Joined: Nov 1, 2013 Quote: Getting a guaranteed additional 4 points of training with chrome... hows does that get you to "win"?? Something that small of an increment, even over a span of months doesn't guarantee you winning anything. Pay-To-Win would be buying a sniper 4 or pyro 4, buying that with chrome is winning because it has an immediate impact and advantage in the game and over other players. Keep these small micro transaction in perspective. They do not help you win. yeah crispy  ......................... vet wv marshal paintball semiprocombat pvp5 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 7:01 am

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Pay-to-win only makes a difference in a PVP environment. In the PVE environment (which is the majority -and for some the whole - of the game) it makes no difference to anyone but the player themselves. In DW this is as best pay-not-to-lose-so-quickly. If Sam implemented a system where you could buy, say, gunner 50 (and therefore your choice of 1 specialism), what difference would it make to another player other than the ephemeral "fairness" argument. There is probably a limit on what you should be able to buy off the bat to cover the effect on leagues etc, but then maybe leagues should be about player skill and not who has the best ganger at the time (which may simply reflect more time to grind the skills up). It would make a difference to Sam as Chrome spent on that ganger would immediately boost his coffers, vs Chrome spent over time in training (or not if the player chose to train by eventing). It is therefore an economic decision for Sam, not a player base decision. To make money, the game needs more ways for players to spend Chrome and for it to go out of the game (stimulating the buying of Chrome), rather than it circulating endlessly among players in the market. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 7:07 am Last edited Sep 21, 2014, 7:07 am by Iron Wraith

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Don't forget that Chrome training can only take place in towns with a training centre. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 7:22 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Iron Wraith said: Don't forget that Chrome training can only take place in towns with a training centre. Which is now EVERY town.  Except Morgan.  Where you get more skill training for no payment of any sort than the people in SS get with a TC and a Mot4 and 5 chrome. X- my P2W was based on the GUARANTEE of 9 skill a week for 10 chrome (or 4 for 5).  On top of the 2 or 3 already gained.  with no chance of it being less.  That's Sniper in 4 weeks of very casual play (1 skill point in an event every 2 weeks type casual) Im against any SET guarantee.  Plus it kills the entire RP side of it.  why sign up for a TC when you can just go to the shop and buy 9 points of skill once a week? ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 7:44 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Plus im partial to the idea I mentioned which was both transparent and opaque, and made the player put thought into how he treated his ganger to groom the best skill gains out of him through player interaction. Rather than just waking over to Jimmy's Skills Emporium and buying 9 skill every week. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 7:47 am

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 *StCrispin* said: Iron Wraith said: Don't forget that Chrome training can only take place in towns with a training centre. Which is now EVERY town.  Except Morgan.  Where you get more skill training for no payment of any sort than the people in SS get with a TC and a Mot4 and 5 chrome. I can't set training in Gateway using Chrome (as chrome training is a function of having a training facility).  I presume the same is true in other towns without a dedicated training facility.  I supposed I could drive to SS, set training in the training facility there and then drive back to GW and hope it sticks.  That seems clumsy and I was assuming therefore that Chrome training wasn't designed to be used in GW (and I am not wasting Chrome testing it). ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 9:09 am Last edited Sep 21, 2014, 9:09 am by Iron Wraith

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 not sure why you cant get training in GW.  Sam stated: *Sam* said: - The concept of some towns not having training centres at all has been removed. my guy got 2 points. I was under the impression that the whole point of chrome training was for towns that previously had no TCs.  Maybe that changed.  Not that I mind. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Sep 21, 2014, 11:40 am

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