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Premium training centres
*sam*
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Advanced training centres have now been added to the game (as announced earlier in the summer). 


The most important bits:

- Premium players' characters get weekly 'offline' training (i.e. in addition to whatever they get from events). This can be taken for free, in which case all you need to do is select the skill you want each character to train, from one of the town training centres
- By paying DW$500/week, a character gets to use training facilities and therefore accelerated offline training. Again, this only works for Premium players
- By paying CHR5 or CHR10 per week, a character gets further improved offline training through use of training facilities and personal trainers. This is available to all players, Premium or Free. Obviously the CHR10 option gives the best possible offline training, although it is *not* twice as good as the CHR5 option.
- Characters' skillcaps are not changed by offline training of any sort. I.e. it helps them advance faster but doesn't affect their final potential.

Some more details:

- The concept of 'time out of town' has been removed, so therefore all characters get full training regardless of how much travel etc. they have done in the week.
- However, activity level remain as a factor, as it does with most activities that characters do. I.e. if a character is at 80% activity level, then their offline training is only 80% effective.
- Another factor which remains is 'training form', which is a hidden stat reflecting how well each character is training at the moment. It fluctuates over a period of weeks/months. It has been reduced in importance however (since earlier this summer) so offline training is less unpredictable than it used to be.
- The concept of some towns not having training centres at all has been removed.. what this means in practice is that use of training facilities will no longer be paused if the character is in a camp or truckstop on a Friday morning when offline training happens.
- Each town remains more effective at training in some skills and less effective in others. Camps are generally not very effective except for mechanic skill.

The numbers:

Assuming free offline training has a relative training speed of 1.0 unit per week, then:
- DW$500/week training gives a relative training speed of 2.0 units
- CHR5/week gives a relative training speed of 3.75 units
- CHR10/week gives a relative training speed of 4.5 units

- The actual meaning of 'x units' is specific to a character and their training form. As a character gets close to their skillcap, training always slows down. Their training form also has an effect (positive or negative) as does the town they're in and the skill they're training
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 4:10 pm Last edited Sep 5, 2014, 5:11 pm by *sam*
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In all fairness, I think you have to flesh out a bit more what each of the training options means. I don't mind having hidden rules and factors when we only had one training option because it was what it was. However, when you branch into actual money transaction for chrome and offer faster training, you need to better define how each level distinguishes itself. How exactly does the 5 chrome version of training separate itself from standard premium training?

Case in point, I have over 60 gangers which would equate to over 600 chrome for top training per week..... and I don't have any clue what that gives me over and above the standard training. Would you spend over $7 each week to buy chrome for a feature not defined well in a game?
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vet wv

Posted Sep 5, 2014, 4:39 pm
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Maybe a x% bump on given skill gains rather than bet the blind. Real money for unknown don't sit well with people.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 4:45 pm
*The X Man*
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Another factor is letting players know that this accelerated training will or will not affect a characters skill cap.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 4:50 pm Last edited Sep 5, 2014, 4:51 pm by *The X Man*
*sam*
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*The X Man* said:
Another factor is letting players know that this accelerated training will or will not affect a characters skill cap.


ok, done.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 5:05 pm
*sam*
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*Boonwolf* said:
Maybe a x% bump on given skill gains rather than bet the blind.  Real money for unknown don't sit well with people.


OK, I'll add this. At least it's not giving away actual numbers directly.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 5:05 pm
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Thank you sir. Perhaps you might consider a gang toggle which would allow all gangers for a subscriber to have everyone trained at a chrome discount.
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vet wv

Posted Sep 5, 2014, 5:22 pm
*Longo*
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Sam -
I am not sure if this is the intent, but has caused some confusion with me on this topic -

I look in the training center and it says I have 70 of 71 gangers training at the $500/week level. I have no idea which guy I am missing. He must be in a town or camp where there isnt a training center? Having to drive every one of my gang members not in SS, Elms, Texan, or Sars to a training Center to find this 1 guy would be horrible. Is there another way to find this guy?

Also, can I only change the training option for a ganger if he is in a town with a training center? Again, see the considerable inconvenience that this would generate as per explain in the paragraph above.

Can this be fixed?
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 5:37 pm
*sam*
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*Longo* said:
Sam -
I am not sure if this is the intent, but has caused some confusion with me on this topic -

I look in the training center and it says I have 70 of 71 gangers training at the $500/week level. I have no idea which guy I am missing. He must be in a town or camp where there isnt a training center? Having to drive every one of my gang members not in SS, Elms, Texan, or Sars to a training Center to find this 1 guy would be horrible. Is there another way to find this guy?

Also, can I only change the training option for a ganger if he is in a town with a training center? Again, see the considerable inconvenience that this would generate as per explain in the paragraph above.

Can this be fixed?


I have thrown in a quick link that lets you see the characters in each group
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 5:52 pm
*The X Man*
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Longo, next to the number of characters training is a link [who?], you should be able to click this and see all who are training. Then you should notice the name of who is not. I just tried that link on my page and that link is not working. Hopefully Sam can verify this is the way to check your crew and who is actually training.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 5:54 pm
*The X Man*
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Sam is fast and on the ball today, link now works!
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 5:55 pm
*The X Man*
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Another training question Sam. Will accelerated rehab training be included? If so, will the amounts be the same or cost more since it is technically a medical facility? Just IMO, it should be included because it IS something we select and choose to train in and pay for.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 5:57 pm Last edited Sep 5, 2014, 6:01 pm by *The X Man*
*Longo*
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Ok, the new feature is good.

But I want to spend Chrome on 2 of my guys in GW right now. I cant get the option to change their training without driving to SS. Same with any of my 20+ guys in camp. :(
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 6:19 pm
*The X Man*
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*Longo* said:
Ok, the new feature is good.

But I want to spend Chrome on 2 of my guys in GW right now. I cant get the option to change their training without driving to SS. Same with any of my 20+ guys in camp.    :(


I am pretty sure you can only change to chrome training in a town that has a training center.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 6:31 pm
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*The X Man* said:
*Longo* said:
Ok, the new feature is good.

But I want to spend Chrome on 2 of my guys in GW right now. I cant get the option to change their training without driving to SS. Same with any of my 20+ guys in camp.    :(


I am pretty sure you can only change to chrome training in a town that has a training center.


At this point, it appears so.
But considering that with my gang alone, Sam would be potentially losing 710 Chrome(approx $10.50 US, 7.50 Euros) sales a week, maybe he would like this option more accessible?
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 6:38 pm Last edited Sep 5, 2014, 6:39 pm by *Longo*
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Ok.

I am a non-premium. I spend 5 Chr per week on a character. What is the likely effect.

There is no point in it providing a multiplier to my training as non-premium skill rises due to training has up to now been zero.

I am putting it on one low skill driver in SS as a test but I'd like some indication on what it is going to do. It would also be useful top know the ranges of skill increases that are likely to be seen from the various options.

All this under the bonnet stuff was fine when we had no control over it and the only choice was what you trained, if you are able to choose your level of training that choice needs to be informed, especially if I have to fork out Chrome for which I have to pay real money for.

I presume if I say I am paying the $500 per week and am not premium that training boost wont happen and the money won't be debited either.
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vet wv raceL1

Posted Sep 5, 2014, 7:07 pm Last edited Sep 5, 2014, 7:07 pm by Iron Wraith
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*Longo* said:
*The X Man* said:
*Longo* said:
Ok, the new feature is good.

But I want to spend Chrome on 2 of my guys in GW right now. I cant get the option to change their training without driving to SS. Same with any of my 20+ guys in camp.    :(


I am pretty sure you can only change to chrome training in a town that has a training center.


At this point, it appears so.
But considering that with my gang alone, Sam would be potentially losing 710 Chrome(approx $10.50 US, 7.50 Euros) sales a week, maybe he would like this option more accessible?


More than have your gang is in SS or ELMS, so just your DW and camp guys would be unavailable for chrome training. So you have plenty of characters to spend your chrome on  :rolleyes:

I understand your point, but that's where choices come into play. Do they stay at camp and build rare stuff or get accelerated training in town instead. Its kind of like picking a specialism, sniper or machine guns? They both have their advantages, but you can only pick one.

I keep guys in SV, BL and GW for scouting because I can get better loot there, but the trade off for that is no chrome training. Different scenarios with different perks.

A few more player opinions on this may help come up with some new ideas.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 8:05 pm
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I think casual play just took one in the nuts. I guess rather... if you dont want to scout your face off...you'd better shine up your chrome. Actually I guess scout as much as you like since it doesnt affect training form. Ugg... juan is happy... drive all over evan in 40 squads and max out scout in a week then get full training.

Sorry...I am.... this just doesn't sit well amd I have to add more than just 2c.

Sam are you using the rules council or running this stuff past any longer termers? I think you need a test environment and im sure youd get volunteers to test changes in game as well.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 8:25 pm
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*The X Man* said:
*Longo* said:
*The X Man* said:
*Longo* said:
Ok, the new feature is good.

But I want to spend Chrome on 2 of my guys in GW right now. I cant get the option to change their training without driving to SS. Same with any of my 20+ guys in camp.    :(


I am pretty sure you can only change to chrome training in a town that has a training center.


At this point, it appears so.
But considering that with my gang alone, Sam would be potentially losing 710 Chrome(approx $10.50 US, 7.50 Euros) sales a week, maybe he would like this option more accessible?


More than have your gang is in SS or ELMS, so just your DW and camp guys would be unavailable for chrome training. So you have plenty of characters to spend your chrome on  :rolleyes:

I understand your point, but that's where choices come into play. Do they stay at camp and build rare stuff or get accelerated training in town instead. Its kind of like picking a specialism, sniper or machine guns? They both have their advantages, but you can only pick one.

I keep guys in SV, BL and GW for scouting because I can get better loot there, but the trade off for that is no chrome training. Different scenarios with different perks.

A few more player opinions on this may help come up with some new ideas.


X-

I appreciate you letting me know how you play DW, however I do not play your style and would like to play my own way. So, if I could hear from Sam rather than you interjecting your thoughts on how I should play DW, I would very much appreciate it.
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 9:53 pm Last edited Sep 5, 2014, 9:53 pm by *Longo*
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Joel Autobaun said:
I think casual play just took one in the nuts.  I guess rather... if you dont want to scout your face off...you'd better shine up your chrome.  Actually I guess scout as much as you like since it doesnt affect training form.  Ugg... juan is happy... drive all over evan in 40 squads and max out scout in a week then get full training.

Sorry...I am.... this just doesn't sit well amd I have to add more than just 2c.

Sam are you using the rules council or running this stuff past any longer termers?  I think you need a test environment and im sure youd get volunteers to test changes in game as well.


I have to tentatively side with Joel on this.  While I think SOME sort of Chrome Training should exist, I have a sinking feeling that this creates a pay to win environment from a new player perspective or at the least a "milking machine" feature.

I also have concerned feelings about the removal of town specific training centers but am glad it will mean camps won't have as large of a training gap (a lot of my camp guys with motivator 4 in camp only got 2 points every 3 weeks for a total of 2/3 of a point per week average).

I'm not necessarily strongly against, but I have an uneasy feeling about it.  It also feels like it removes a lot of depth.

I STRONGLY DISLIKE the removal of the effects of Travel Time!.  However, with that being removed how about an EXHAUSTION LEVEL that is like the activity % which indicates the gangers focus?  If my guy scouted 18 of the past 24 hours and did this every day of the week, he won't be paying a lot of attention in "class"
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 10:15 pm Last edited Sep 5, 2014, 10:17 pm by *StCrispin*
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