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Premium training centres
d0dger
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So essentially:

Subscriber 500 DW$/week = 100% training gain.
Anyone 5 Chrome/week = 275% training gain.
Anyone 10 Chrome/week = 350% training gain.

AKA (on average):
Free training will cap 2 skills in the time that
DW$ training will cap 4 skills in the time that
5CHR training will cap 5.5 skills in the time that
10CHR training will cap 9 skills (do we have that many?)

Ok, checked and we only have 10 skills + PSI

Just seems a bit steep to me. Anyone else?
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 10:32 pm
*StCrispin*
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How does Motivator factor in?

Example: previously with Training Center and Mot4 I would gain between 4 and 6 "free" skill points.

Does this mean with 10 CHR I will gain 14 to 21?
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 10:51 pm
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Not knowing how the old premium bonus numbers compare to these we can't say. Actually we also don't know if these bonuses are applied before or after or cumulatively or exponentially with the affects of training form and city bonuses so I suppose the ratios above may only apply to that portion of the training and not be quite so varied in the final result...
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 11:03 pm
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*StCrispin* said:
How does Motivator factor in?

Example: previously with Training Center and Mot4 I would gain between 4 and 6 "free" skill points.

Does this mean with 10 CHR I will gain 14 to 21?


How the hell do you guys get such training - even with a MOT5 most of my guys will get (on average) 1 or 2 points a week in a town (SS) with a training centre. Places like BL & GW (which have no training centre) I average between 0 and 1.

Personally anything more than 4 points from (non-active) training seems like to much to me (excluding things like training vouchers from SCL).

K
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Posted Sep 5, 2014, 11:05 pm
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*K1500* said:
*StCrispin* said:
How does Motivator factor in?

Example: previously with Training Center and Mot4 I would gain between 4 and 6 "free" skill points.

Does this mean with 10 CHR I will gain 14 to 21?


How the hell do you guys get such training - even with a MOT5 most of my guys will get (on average) 1 or 2 points a week in a town (SS) with a training centre. Places like BL & GW (which have no training centre) I average between 0 and 1.

Personally anything more than 4 points from (non-active) training seems like to much to me (excluding things like training vouchers from SCL).

K


Things may have changed:
http://www.darkwindwiki.com/index.php?title=Skills

down under training is a table.  With motivator 5, you should be doing better.  I have a few characters with really bad training form, but have been getting 2-5 points for most guys, even with the changes Sam made.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 12:58 am
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i always think you guys are crazy an cant tell the difference between field and training camp training.

i have had a lot of characters doing nothing in SS whilst i have been scavenging... they have been in the training camp and i checked them regularly.. the results have always been between 1 and 3 points a week. never more.

always remember that the wiki is written by the same people you dont believe when they write stuff here... its a wiki...



New training changes are great... there must have been a bit of a suprise at the price hike but thats good... nice one sam.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 1:06 am
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*StCrispin* said:

Things may have changed:
http://www.darkwindwiki.com/index.php?title=Skills

down under training is a table.  With motivator 5, you should be doing better.  I have a few characters with really bad training form, but have been getting 2-5 points for most guys, even with the changes Sam made.


Well that all looks pretty much the same (in terms of what towns train what) as it's always has been. I have had the odd (once every couple of months) occasion when a ganger may get 4 points in something, but that's usually down in TX. This was the reason I shifted quite a few people down to TX from BL, because a number of them just were not getting anything from training BL and I didn't scout there often enough to keep a force that size there.

I just double checked with my SS characters who I haven't used since the weekly update. All training in non-specialised skills, all using the training centre - 7 of them got 1 point, 1 got 2 points. Maybe all my guys have just really crap training form at the moment.

Personally (and I stress that this isn't an a suggestion of how the game should be - that's a decision for Sam) I find the idea of getting 8 points in a week for training way to much. However that's just me.

K
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 1:57 am
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I had 2 or 3 mechs is SF getting 5-8 points for awhile with a motivator 1. But I had a couple that only got 1 or 2 points. I have had drivers in SS get 8 points also.

Goat, I check at update before they have gotten any field training for the week.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 2:17 am
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goat starer said:
i always think you guys are crazy an cant tell the difference between field and training camp training.

i have had a lot of characters doing nothing in SS whilst i have been scavenging... they have been in the training camp and i checked them regularly.. the results have always been between 1 and 3 points a week. never more.

always remember that the wiki is written by the same people you dont believe when they write stuff here... its a wiki...

New training changes are great... there must have been a bit of a suprise at the price hike but thats good... nice one sam.


Pretty easy to discern as after training before you do any events with the ganger the profile sheet shows the amount of gain from training and nothing else... Hand Guns    120 (116) This character gained 4 skill in training this week... Cyclist    33 (26) This guy got 7 in Cyclist in SS... it's not rocket science.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 3:52 am
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I haven't looked at all of mine but the one I did look at gained 4. I haven't done any scouting yet. And the only moving objects were down south and didn't include that SS ganger in any way
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 4:13 am Last edited Sep 6, 2014, 4:16 am by *StCrispin*
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Joel Autobaun said:

Sam are you using the rules council or running this stuff past any longer termers?  I think you need a test environment and im sure youd get volunteers to test changes in game as well.


Unfortunately no, I'd guess he wanted to get this implemented asap after the Steam launch.

I'm a bit confused by this as well.

Sam said:


The numbers:

Assuming free offline training has a relative training speed of 1.0 unit per week, then:
- DW$500/week training gives a relative training speed of 2.0 units
- CHR5/week gives a relative training speed of 3.75 units
- CHR10/week gives a relative training speed of 4.5 units



We're missing some bonuses depending on your gang and location.

1 - Motivater

2 - Better Town training bonus for certain skills, briefly mentioned.

3 - Veteran gang character training bonus for younger characters.

4 - League skill bonuses from sponsors

(mentioned bonuses)

5 - Town training center - $500

6 - Chrome bonus - 5 or 10


So I could potentially have 6 bonuses if I'm willing to spend Chrome. What I want to know is, if a character is capped at 5 in training per week for weapon skills with 5 of the bonuses in effect, what will spending Chrome (6th bonus) do to aid this character get more/better training?

Since we can't break the cap of 5 or 8, how will spending chrome(real money) make it better?

Then take the modified training form.

If a character has "bad" training form and with 5 of the bonuses applied still only gets 1 point that week, how will spending chrome change the characters training that week? Since Chrome is not "modifying" training form, a player could be spending real money and see no change in the characters training if they have bad training form.

Chrome spent needs to show an actual change in training each week or a breaking of the allowed cap or override training form.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 5:26 am
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still waiting for a good reason to use chrome, not much good to a gang with over 25+ gangers that are over 50 and cant train for crap because there mostly all capped to use money for training on a system thats not been testedor defined, let us spend chrome on things that will be worth spending real money on like using it to preserve a gangers life because of old age, or let us expand a camp to build stuff we cant because of sixze restrictions, still waits for a good reason to spend rl money on chrome.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 6:05 am
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Hey Lord Foul, if I read this right, then what I am seeing is:

Max gain per week is:
Not specialty Town Specialty
No Train Center 2 3
500 $DW TC 4 6
Chr 5/week 7.5 11.25
Chr 10/week 9 13.5

Motivator affects training form.
Don't know about mentor or League bonuses.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 6:10 am
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Bolt Thrower said:
Hey Lord Foul, if I read this right, then what I am seeing is:

Max gain per week is:
                              Not specialty    Town Specialty
No Train Center                2                    3
500 $DW TC                    4                    6
Chr 5/week                      7.5                  11.25
Chr 10/week                    9                    13.5

Motivator affects training form.
Don't know about mentor or League bonuses.


Which again brings the point back to why pay Chrome if the caps are still in place which limit skill increase to 5 and 8 (not spec/town spec)..... which can be even futher reduced as you hone in on the players cap for the skill.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 6:53 am
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" I find the idea of getting 8 points in a week for training way to much."

:o

I'm in agreement with this!

If I understand things correctly, you can pay, but do nothing with that ganger other than sit their ass in town all week and still get that kind of skill gain?!?!?


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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 7:24 am Last edited Sep 6, 2014, 7:30 am by *Rev. V*
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Ragnak said:
Bolt Thrower said:
Hey Lord Foul, if I read this right, then what I am seeing is:

Max gain per week is:
                              Not specialty    Town Specialty
No Train Center                2                    3
500 $DW TC                    4                    6
Chr 5/week                      7.5                  11.25
Chr 10/week                    9                    13.5

Motivator affects training form.
Don't know about mentor or League bonuses.


Which again brings the point back to why pay Chrome if the caps are still in place which limit skill increase to 5 and 8 (not spec/town spec)..... which can be even futher reduced as you hone in on the players cap for the skill.


umm... I didn't see where Sam said max skill increase per week was 5 and 8.  What I saw him say was character skill caps would not change, meaning you will cap faster.  Paying 10/chrome per week in a town with a training center and training the town specialty, I am assuming with the max training for factor you would see a 13 point increase.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 7:38 am
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Real question is

Do you want to be spending 400-500 CHR for 2x skilling over DW$ as a sub it's tempting to boost skill gains but we can scout down south and see massive gains to skills that non subs can't get.

On a hot week I have been able to pick up 10-20 on all gunnery and have raked in 50 mech skill at the same time.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 7:43 am
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Bolt Thrower said:
*K1500* said:
*StCrispin* said:
How does Motivator factor in?

Example: previously with Training Center and Mot4 I would gain between 4 and 6 "free" skill points.

Does this mean with 10 CHR I will gain 14 to 21?


How the hell do you guys get such training - even with a MOT5 most of my guys will get (on average) 1 or 2 points a week in a town (SS) with a training centre. Places like BL & GW (which have no training centre) I average between 0 and 1.

Personally anything more than 4 points from (non-active) training seems like to much to me (excluding things like training vouchers from SCL).

K


Things may have changed:
http://www.darkwindwiki.com/index.php?title=Skills

down under training is a table.  With motivator 5, you should be doing better.  I have a few characters with really bad training form, but have been getting 2-5 points for most guys, even with the changes Sam made.


We should be believing a wiki entry written by someone who thinks writing "The Math" lends credibility? It just shows they struggle with English as well as maths.

I have 4 characters training in driving in Somerset, all of them in the training camp. Last week I was helping new guys scout a lot and the drivers did nothing but train. 2 points each.. Just as it has been since time immemorial. People just don't know how to read the table and get all over excited.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 7:52 am Last edited Sep 6, 2014, 7:57 am by goat starer
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We really need basic training (like the military do). A few weeks should get you combat ready (say 50 skill). Beyond that it's a law of diminishing returns.

I am not convinced that work-based training is more effective than classroom-based training. In my experience you just end up doing the things you already know how to do.
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 7:58 am
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Another thing to think about is should there be a downside for CRM training? Otherwise it's all reward with no risk. A potential suggestion is that CRM training could add to the hidden mileage statistic for the ganger - in that pushing themselves so hard to achieve their exceptional weekly training they are actually stretching their bodies (and minds) to the limits. This way you get the (potential) advantage of the additional training but also have the potential of reducing the overall lifespan of your ganger.

K
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Posted Sep 6, 2014, 8:05 am
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