Darkwind - Viewing Topic: Overpowered specs

*sam*
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Hi all.. just to let you know I'm doing a review of all specialist skills with a view to applying soft caps. In several cases, the effects can start to get silly after about level 4 or 5. To be honest, when I implemented them I wasn't really considering that anyone would go above that level with them.

Some remain fine without soft-caps.

I'll list the ones here that I think are most unbalanced, please feel free to comment! [more to come, I'm still reviewing right now..]
- Sniper
- Rapid Reload
- Engine Tuning
- Defensive Driver
- Negotiator

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 12:53 pm	Last edited Jul 11, 2014, 2:19 pm by sam

Jety
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In my experience negotiator is a highly ineffective skill. I pretty much assume it won't work ever. Hearing that it's over-powered makes me scratch my head in confusion. Maybe I just never had a Neg 5...?

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 2:42 pm	Last edited Jul 11, 2014, 2:43 pm by Jety

Necrotech
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Negotiator also works pre encounter.

So a say scout 4 can most likely can truce from BL to Sars, regardless of rep.. with out a single direct encounter.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 2:44 pm

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There was a really good discussion about the sniper skill in the "changes coming" thread. One idea that it seemed like almost everyone agreed with was that rather than nerfing sniper, making it only work for 'snipery' weapons (cr, hcr, laser) might be a more appropriate solution.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 2:47 pm	Last edited Jul 11, 2014, 2:48 pm by Jety

*sam*
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Jety said:

Yes, for sure.
I should clarify this is not a broad-based 'nerf' of Sniper.. the main thing I'm doing here in all cases is looking to make the effects have a diminishing effect for each additional level, rather than having them stack linearly.. it's having certain skills such as sniper above about level 4 that it starts getting overpowered if there's no power function/soft-cap applied.

edit: I note from comments in my code that at some stage in the past I removed the use of the sniper skill for large-gun category weapons, but later put it back. This was probably due to player complaints.. there may be some discussion ahead. I'm going to create a poll on this..

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 3:07 pm	Last edited Jul 11, 2014, 3:24 pm by sam

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Jety said:

I think there have been too many variables in place to allow a player to understand just what their negotiator skill was doing for them.

I had drivers up to negotiator 7 level and always still had encounters running South of Badlands. There was nothing ever like a free ride anywhere. My rep was with Civs and Merchants so it seems that plenty of Pirates, Anarchist, and Muties wanted a piece of me.

Incidentally, I also remember most of those encounters as being very likely ambush setups as well.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:09 pm

*sam*
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Necrotech said:

Negotiator also works pre encounter.

So a say scout 4 can most likely can truce from BL to Sars, regardless of rep.. with out a single direct encounter.

Actually, negotiator doesn't work pre-encounter. It's faction standings that work pre-encounter.

However.. I just found a bug in the code that creates travel encounters, which was making it too easy to truce your way through travels based on faction standings. I'm fixing that now but I have not yet made any specs changes in the live game.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:11 pm	Last edited Jul 11, 2014, 4:15 pm by sam

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I dont understand how engine tuning or negotiator makes the list...yet rapid shot is not there.

I am very worried about who you are getting your info from sam. I think its the wrong people.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:14 pm

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*sam* said:

Necrotech said:

Negotiator also works pre encounter.

So a say scout 4 can most likely can truce from BL to Sars, regardless of rep.. with out a single direct encounter.

Incidentally.. I just found a bug in the code that creates travel encounters, which was making it too easy to truce your way through travels based on faction standings. I'm fixing that now but I have not yet made any specs changes in the live game.

I'm not entirely sure it's a bug that friends won't attack you on sight

(Just having fun)

I know you don't like giving stats but I have to ask, what is the relative value of specs like machinegunner/rocketeer compared to sniper and moving targets? In my eyes those specialist specs have always been very underwhelming and maybe should have been brought up to snuff.

(Laserfire/Flamespec nonewithstanding, for obvious damage increasing reasons)

Joel, you don't see a problem with a spec that lets your car go faster than other players in town events without actually having to have the character present in the event?

Imagine if we had armor tuner and weapon tuners? That somehow seems more Free than Free.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:15 pm	Last edited Jul 11, 2014, 4:18 pm by FireFly

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*sam* said:

Necrotech said:

Negotiator also works pre encounter.

So a say scout 4 can most likely can truce from BL to Sars, regardless of rep.. with out a single direct encounter.

Oh...wow... there was like a massive forum war about this a few months ago...

Uhh ya its nice to have you back

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:16 pm

*sam*
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Joel Autobaun said:

I dont understand how engine tuning or negotiator makes the list...yet rapid shot is not there.

I am very worried about who you are getting your info from sam. I think its the wrong people.

I am planning to modify rapidshot a bit, yes.

At high specs and without any kind of soft cap, engine tuner is *massively* overpowered, I can guarantee you that. Not from people but from code.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:18 pm

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Damn... only ever had 3 tuner...explains some lord foul records(you are going down).

Fair enough sam...carry on lol

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:20 pm

*sam*
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In terms of psionics, 'Burn' seems to be the one that gets complained about... are there any others that are too powerful?

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:33 pm

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*sam* said:

I never get use of my engine tuning spec anyway, I have a level 1 and a level 2 in separate towns.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:50 pm

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*sam* said:

Necrotech said:

Negotiator also works pre encounter.

So a say scout 4 can most likely can truce from BL to Sars, regardless of rep.. with out a single direct encounter.

Can you please be more specific, for those of us who pay close attention to our faction standings? Give examples of when a truce was happening and should not have?

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 4:53 pm

*sam*
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Krakhedd said:

*sam* said:

Necrotech said:

Negotiator also works pre encounter.

So a say scout 4 can most likely can truce from BL to Sars, regardless of rep.. with out a single direct encounter.

Can you please be more specific, for those of us who pay close attention to our faction standings? Give examples of when a truce was happening and should not have?

Basically, three NPC gangs are randomly picked based on your scouting skill and if any of them don't auto-truce then the combat starts. But the way it was coded, it would actually pick the same NPC gang three times, a lot of the time (your scouting skill is tested against their fame.. it should have a random factor included but didn't).

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 5:06 pm

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I thought negotiator was about right.

I had (now dead) a 300+ NEG scout who could pretty much drive encounterless around the northern triangle, but got a couple of encounters on way to BL, and a 3-4 fom BL-FL.

That's sounds about right to me when you've trained someone to 300+ doesn't it?

My current highest is 4 NEG, and she gets the occasional encounter up north.
Don't nerf it too much SAM- there's got to be a tangible worth when training scouters past the 200 mark (takes a long time and a LOT of travelling)

Just my opinion.
Love, Brun X

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 5:21 pm

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*sam* said:

In terms of psionics, 'Burn' seems to be the one that gets complained about... are there any others that are too powerful?

Burn gets complained about because of one event. Coe2. Very useful there...in any other situation ..meh

Frankly all psi is too powerful. Myself and longo warned of this... now we have spent real game years developing them and they are about to become useless. Me personally i dont care...i knew this would happen...others who have spent the considerable time developing them now is your time to speak up.

Notice a few things here sam. Every skill that is useful in pvp is getting complained about. Very few pve skill which are over powered (negotiator...mindcontrol) ever get complained about. You infact are having to nerf some skills because you didnt think people would obtain these skills and they wouldnt have except for the extremely soft...weak carebear environment created by the incessant whining of the pve crowd.

Dont get me wrong i know there is no going back now. I just wanted to say it. I knew this day would come.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 5:38 pm

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Sam said-
"edit: I note from comments in my code that at some stage in the past I removed the use of the sniper skill for large-gun category weapons, but later put it back. This was probably due to player complaints."

-----------------------------------------------------

I was one of the rather vocal complainers, honestly it pissed me off to no end.
That said, my reasons may have been different than other people's reasons.

I didn't mind the change, because sniper IS overpowered.
But folks were ALSO supposed to be given the chance to respec their gangers to accomodate the change, rather than being left hanging with gangers that were set up using the previous way of doing things.

Then we got the nerf, which I didn't mind.....except that the respec part of this never happened.
Had BOTH parts of the change been implemented, I think you would have gotten a LOT less complaining.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 6:05 pm

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*sam* said:

Some remain fine without soft-caps.

One thing that will help on player input is to define what a soft cap is and how it affects that specialism. A better understanding may lead to better suggestions.

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Posted Jul 11, 2014, 6:11 pm