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Idea for PVP

RudeReality Your name here Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 200 Joined: Feb 10, 2013 Let me preface this by saying I am for PVP, and as a new player I look forward to joining in the fun soon, as I get better Acquainted with the game. I also don't look forward to losing crew that I have spent so many hours getting to know. I understand in most cases players respect a call of "enough" and won't red me out, but I still don't relish the idea of being harassed everywhere I go. I'm here to blow of steam and have fun, not be frustrated. There has to be a balance. My thought is to have scheduled PVP scouts, with the option to join either the attacking of defending side, and some way to enforce balance and keep things somewhat competitive and fair-ish. I say ish. Surprises and uneven odds provide inventive tactics, it just should be the exception, not the rule. This would hopefully encourage more PVP, and group scouting, which would be a blast. I envision something like the attack on the firelight rally, but with all sides aware of the event about to occur. I, for one, wish I had been a part of that one, but it was scheduled during my house move. Would love to have that chance on a regular basis... ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 15, 2013, 5:27 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Before some old-timer points out, in a not so friendly manner, that these "Exist and are called Militia vs Pirates events that no one bothers to join"... These Exist.  They are called Militia vs Pirates events.  No one bothers to join them. HOWEVER, there is a REASON no one joins them! That reason is in the timeing of it's scheduling.  They seem to always be at times that no one is playing.  I know in the first 6 months that I played only TWO ever fell on a time (or day in this case) that I wasnt at work. The first one was Elmsfield.  My car never appeared in the event and got stuck "traveling" back from the Gates for something like 10 to 14 days until Sam himself had to fix whatever had happened to trap my car and crew in the wilderness 15 feet away from the gate.  The second was in GW.  It worked except the AI was stupid and the Militai drove back to town while the Pirates followed them.  I killed the pirates while they followed the milita.  The didnt bother to try to fight me until after they were demoed. TWO REASON I see that these are not utilized: 1) they have no noticable affect on the safety of the town (no reduction in returns) so people thing "whats the point?" 2) the times are locked in stone, non-adjustable, and seem to not fit with the schedule of anyone who cares to play it. Well, 3 reasons I guess...  and 3) The pirate siding player loses rep with that town and that faction and there isnt any benefit to being the bad guy unless you just enjoy not being able to escape into the gates on a travel... ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 6:37 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 My idea for PvP...  well I had 2 but my FIRST idea was as follows: People wanting to PvP on a single event basis rather than "PvP flag on for a week before I can change it" would call up an event like a gladiator event.  Scheduled 1 hour out so people could have time to see it and join even if out on a scout (they had time to get back) and the people callingit up could go scout and if it popped up, they could pause the scout if it was solo...  etc.  Or something like that.  That part was just a flexible concept.  Even a "que up until full" idea was suggested (like a WoW BG does) this was argued against on the following grounds in order of which was most offered as a counter arguement: (1) no one wants to sit around and wait that long.  (2) WoW sucks and so do you.  (3) Thats called Intercepting your scout!  Just put your flag to PvP On! Then each player wanting to attend could add one or 2 cars depending on the settings of the event (player calling it up could set criteria such as Max CR, number of cars, or whatever.  Even Stock cars!). This was argued against on the following grounds: (1) thats called a custom event.  Why dont you just invite people to a custom event?  (2) Just put your PvP flag to On and I will intercept you and red your crew.  then you can stop suggesting changes to PvP!  {additions to, actually but they were heated and didnt see the distinction} (3) CR shouldnt be limited or matched.  this is the apacalypse and if I want to bring a Dual TG Ambunaught against your Sonic, I should be able to!  Just because you dont have gear doesnt mean I shouldnt get to use mine on you! Then the server picked a map (or maybe just gates or maybe user could pick a map).  and then Off you go!  4 to 8 players going head to head out in the wilderness with a random assortment of players at semi-equal capability that pitted PLAYER skill vs PLAYER skill rather than GANGER skill vs GANGER skill or Gear vs Gear.  if yo could define Skill caps like "levels brackets" for BGs in WoW Arguement against this:  you guessed it: (1) I spent a long time skilling my gangers, I should be allowed to use my Sniper 5,  280 skill gunner against your no-spec sub 50 if I want to!  and (2) WoW sucks!  why would we want to immitate their level baracket/cap idea? So basically that idea was poo-pooed ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 6:54 am Last edited Jun 15, 2013, 6:56 am by StCrispin

RudeReality Your name here Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 200 Joined: Feb 10, 2013 Ok, so it exists already. Great, easy to tweak it so it is more attractive to attend. Give some advantage to being on the winning side, wether attacker, or defender. What about scheduled convoy runs between towns? Yes, they are already there too, but again, underused, so tweak it. Make the times flexible, maybe a poll the week before to set times for those wanting to enter. The point is, just as with Morgan, if it isn't being used, then it needs adjusting, either by player response, or by on high. Playing against a bot is ok, but pales to the unconventional tactics of a real, live opponent. Seeing several gangs go at it hammer and tongs would be a welcome sight to this observer. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 15, 2013, 7:21 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 My 2nd Idea: A persistent event.  Short turn timer of like 10 to 15 seconds, no ending it early.  Huge arena map with cars entering at will.  you join at any time while it is active (like a qualifyer event does) with ONE CAR.  could be stock or could be your own, that was never specified since it was just a concept.  You fight until Demoed and then exit the arena unless dead or KOed or engine destroyed.  then you can just "exit arena" in drop down and your crew flees like "escape".  Undrivable cars remain in the arena for the entire event as do mines and debris and other permanent "chunks" of stuff.  Smoke and FoJ of course fade after a while.  You can re-enter the event as many times as you like!  but only your highest score for a car counts! After the time period for the event ends (I sugessted 4 hours) your best score is logged and all wrecks are removed from the arena.  Then the next event starts after an hour or two (to simulate real time cleanup).  You can play again, but more than one score in the day is not allowed.  Either an average, or the best score would be used.  Leagues could have different brackets fr different car chassis, or different CR brackets so that technically it could be many events all wrapped up into one. AI would be present so it wasnt pure PvP (mostly so that it want 1 guy hanging out waiting for someone else to show up to shoot SAM expressed interest in this.  However,  some flaws were pointed out:  What prevents spawn camping or map edge hiding?  What would be the strain on the server to run a constant event and would it bog down the rest of DW (this was during a time where people claimed those exploting the 16 squad limit (the Mighty JV) bogged down the server and that was why there was a squad limit, so thus, my idea would bog it down worse than JV did, supposedly). There was no followup on this idea despite Sam's expression of interest in it.  Im not sure if it was possible given the server constraints as they were.  (See the forum about "Real Time Leagues" for some of the discussion ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 7:21 am

*Boonwolf* Finger 3 Darkwind Guru Morgan Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 1,139 Joined: Mar 7, 2012 Come on rude load up that sonic and meat bag up come fight my TG TT with S 3, RS, RR, hvy gunner. You can win it's all player skill. That's DW PvP in a nut shell! I actualy would like to see a better way to PvP than getting snagged in SS with noobs and there skilled support/teacher. But cris is right all that will ever happen is some one will smear the ideas and call some one a crybaby, some chestes will pound, angers flare. And like magic CoE starts lmao ......................... vet wv paintball paintladder ped1 race1 semiprocombat zom marshal pvp20,5,0 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 7:30 am

musashi_san sunset samurai Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,118 Joined: May 7, 2012 hate to summarize too much, there are some other good ideas in there, but mostly what you seem to be suggesting is almost like a minor league for scl? what the ss dr league is to coe i? with the skill caps etc, but more frequent, or perhaps the ability to make an ad hoc one, and maybe more than just the 2 teams? perhaps presented that way it's much simpler to implement and might get done. i dont think there's nearly the resistance to skill caps that you think, and i think the cr caps with specific weapon exclusions work well in scl... ......................... vet wv pvp4 pvp2 pvp1 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 12:34 pm Last edited Jun 15, 2013, 12:34 pm by musashi_san

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Jusr curious. Other than musashi_san, none of you are open Pvp yet seem to want to talk about it. How can you challenge and want to change the present system if you havent even played it? This isnt intended to be a rude comment or anything, but you dont have any experience playing the present system so maybe your views of changing it are marred? ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 5:45 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 My opinion has not changed. In nearly 5 years playing this game. Wilderness PvP intercepting is for inflicting hate, grudges: not nice. Not supposed to be nice. I have done some catch an release intercepting for testing but otherwise I want to kill your gangers and inflict pain if I intercept you. if you think the victim's time is wasted (yes it might well be - that's part of it ) It is a MASSIVE waste of time for the attacker. The only reason he would be doing it is he hates your guts. The old way to avoid it was to NOT make someone hate your guts. The new way to avoid it is bitch on the forums until the only place that is "dangerous" is shanty. Want REAL PvP unflag and piss someone off. In the end it IS fun, because there is nothing more immersive in this game, no other activity will offer the agony of defeat and the thrill of victory quite like it. I have had handfuls of both. Adding more organized "PvP" events is always for "fun" and I am for that. Keep in mind most of us fun loving PvP players are already maxed out busy with SCL and COE. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 6:12 pm

RudeReality Your name here Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 200 Joined: Feb 10, 2013 In my first month of play I accidentally set my flag to "on" before realizing I couldn't change it for 2 weeks. I was not intercepted during this time, and I scout nightly. I may not have much or any experience in PVP here, yet, but I do have an opinion on the topic, now that debate on it has re-surfaced. Would like to see a way to have open PVP, but there are times when I am not going to have availability or desire to partake, not to hide, but actually have good reasons for not wanting or being able to engage in PVP. This is where is stand. No offense taken, but I do sub, and therefore feel I have a right to an opinion on this. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 15, 2013, 6:19 pm Last edited Jun 15, 2013, 6:20 pm by RudeReality

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 I think half the game hates me right now and I never get intercepted. I doubt anyone would intercept you ever, unless just to prove my statement I made just now - wrong. Additionally the good reasons are: Increased skill gains (but someone needs to get hurt, someone good). Automatic med skill checks made (everyone that has a chance of living - does). If you win you get the other players stuff if he cant escape. If you lose he gets your stuff if you can't escape. Fini Essentially the flag covers what you want ... I think... *shrugs* ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 6:26 pm Last edited Jun 15, 2013, 6:32 pm by Joel Autobaun

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 Longo said: Jusr curious. Other than musashi_san, none of you are open Pvp yet seem to want to talk about it. How can you challenge and want to change the present system if you havent even played it? This isnt intended to be a rude comment or anything, but you dont have any experience playing the present system so maybe your views of changing it are marred? Amen to that, and that goes for everything else too! For instance,I don't play SCL, so I know nothing about it, so I don't comment on it in the forums. If only others would act the same- especially where SCAV, and CoE is concerned. ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 8:40 pm

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 JOEL SAID "Want REAL PvP unflag and piss someone off. In the end it IS fun, because there is nothing more immersive in this game, no other activity will offer the agony of defeat and the thrill of victory quite like it. I have had handfuls of both." Absolutely. (Although I have a few less handfuls of victories than defeats!) There is a common worry amongst some players that as soon as they go PVP ON, they will get murdered. This may be a hangover from other PVP online games they have played in the past? My only interceptions in the last 6 months have been from players that don't like me, that I have made enemies of. And even then- most of them let my gangers live after I resigned, and gave/sold me my vehicles back to me. It's just NOT the case in DW, that there are PKs roaming around, looking to slaughter new, or innocent players- just for the laugh of it. ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Jun 15, 2013, 9:05 pm Last edited Jun 15, 2013, 9:07 pm by Brunwulf

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Longo said: Jusr curious. Other than musashi_san, none of you are open Pvp yet seem to want to talk about it. How can you challenge and want to change the present system if you havent even played it? This isnt intended to be a rude comment or anything, but you dont have any experience playing the present system so maybe your views of changing it are marred? I am PvP off because the current system has pitted no skill trainees against 2 spec opponents.  I have participated in the existing PvP.  I have observed others engaging in heavily one sided fights due to how the current system functions. I am not suggesting that the current system be changed.  Some of you enjoy it and I would not feel right in saying the PvP you enjoy is wrong in any way. I dont like the fact that it could result in 3 "biter" class Phos with 20 skill no spec crews against a twin CC Buzzer with 100+ 5 spec large gunners or worse.  Fun for the Buzzer owner...  But just not the type of PvP I would enjoy (even if I was the Buzzer owner) I prefer a player skill vs player skill type of matching.  While I would still most likely lose to experienced PvP players or old timers, I would ENJOY the event. We are a diverse group, with different play styles and opinions on how the game should be.  We seem to rarely agree on most things.  So perhaps a better approach isnt to fight over 1 style, rather than creating a diverse assortment of availabke styles. I doubt I will go Flag On because I dont want to be forced to PvP when I intended to do something other than PvP (like train a brand new trainee ganger.)  But it doesnt mean im against PvP.  I love PvP. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jun 16, 2013, 12:24 am

Racing Robbie The White Ashes Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: Jul 3, 2012 Seconded. The idea for of the game to me is that there should be something in it that everyone can enjoy. From Joel's making sure that everyone hates him To Goat's endless battle to make scav the only game we all play........... PvP is one of the hardest thing to solve as everyone has their own point of view. Mine is that I like PvP but my time is limited that I can't always get tied up in PvP fights. So I pick my times to PvP by doing the town events and the special events when I can. Rest of my time is spent avoiding Goat attempts to get me to play scav ......................... vet wv northernsummer e2g raceL1 deathrceL1 slay2013 pvp3 ww pvp1 semiprocombat0,1,0 Posted Jun 16, 2013, 12:34 am

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 I've been PvP open since my second or third month in the game, and have yet to be intercepted. I know Brunwulf has tried at least once, and I'm sure a few others have, as well, but it has never happened. I have tried to intercept on several occasions, myself, with no luck. It's not easy. But, PvP is why I play the game, so I would support more "friendly" PvP activities, to be sure. I wish the whole game were PvP open, but that would require that the player base unilaterally honor resignations, and refuse to grief other players. And, as recent history has shown, there are several who simply get off on being nimrods. Such is life, I suppose. ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Jun 16, 2013, 1:21 am

RudeReality Your name here Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 200 Joined: Feb 10, 2013 Robbie and St.Crispin hit the nail on the head for my reasoning for starting this post. I do not wish to restrict gameplay that others enjoy as is, I simply want to generate ideas for ways for the more casual players to enjoy PVP also. Aside from being a new player, I am also a stay at home dad, DW is where I go to blow off the pressures of the day. I don't always have the time to engage in lengthy events, but this does not mean I don't have the desire to. For a player like myself, a fully open PVP system MAY make things frustrating. MAY. It depends on how it is balanced out. To my knowledge I have made no enemies looking to chase me down, but nothing would surprise me, this is not my first trip around the MMORPG block. Yes, I am a bit jaded. I love DW, and the community here is without equal, even though we fight like family. I have a stake in this. We all do. ......................... vet wv Posted Jun 16, 2013, 1:38 am Last edited Jun 16, 2013, 1:41 am by RudeReality

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 StCrispin said: Before some old-timer points out, in a not so friendly manner, that these "Exist and are called Militia vs Pirates events that no one bothers to join"... These Exist.  They are called Militia vs Pirates events.  No one bothers to join them. HOWEVER, there is a REASON no one joins them! That reason is in the timeing of it's scheduling.  They seem to always be at times that no one is playing.  I know in the first 6 months that I played only TWO ever fell on a time (or day in this case) that I wasnt at work. The first one was Elmsfield.  My car never appeared in the event and got stuck "traveling" back from the Gates for something like 10 to 14 days until Sam himself had to fix whatever had happened to trap my car and crew in the wilderness 15 feet away from the gate.  The second was in GW.  It worked except the AI was stupid and the Militai drove back to town while the Pirates followed them.  I killed the pirates while they followed the milita.  The didnt bother to try to fight me until after they were demoed. TWO REASON I see that these are not utilized: 1) they have no noticable affect on the safety of the town (no reduction in returns) so people thing "whats the point?" 2) the times are locked in stone, non-adjustable, and seem to not fit with the schedule of anyone who cares to play it. Well, 3 reasons I guess...  and 3) The pirate siding player loses rep with that town and that faction and there isnt any benefit to being the bad guy unless you just enjoy not being able to escape into the gates on a travel... Old timer steps up  Your points are valid and have been brought to Sam's attention in the past, but he would not budge on times back then. I believe Sam sets those times based on player activity in the game. This is why you see him create leagues with many times around the same as others. As I've said in the past, I'd be in them too if they were during my normal play time. The skill gains are damn good even if you lose without being reded Maybe ask Sam if he can allow a mayor for SS just like Morgan? This way that player can setup the SS town defense times and coodriante some pvp in SS. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Jun 16, 2013, 2:31 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Lord Foul said: Maybe ask Sam if he can allow a mayor for SS just like Morgan? This way that player can setup the SS town defense times and coodriante some pvp in SS. I would be all for that, but then, no one would ever leave SS comfy couch. SS would have to have smaller boosts and rewards so that the more difficult towns, like Morgan, would pack more of a benefit if you travel there. Besides, if Morgan works out under the current format, there could be 8 more Mayor positions that would become available. Then a true faction /alliance between towns would really make an impact on the game. And yes, give Shanty to Joel, you know he wants it.  ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Jun 16, 2013, 4:00 am

*Boonwolf* Finger 3 Darkwind Guru Morgan Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 1,139 Joined: Mar 7, 2012 Thinking of the vast possibility a linked faction town system could offer. SS taken over by REDS! Oh Hell! Civs can't use NPC market for the remainder of the week and can't escape into gates. BL takes over SV driving out mutants to the hills, or maybe just the ones who entered event have to foot squad to TX. Something like this could make this real interesting. Flying the flag of DRM We take down GW defense and stake our claim and begin work on a driving/gunnery training center. ......................... vet wv paintball paintladder ped1 race1 semiprocombat zom marshal pvp20,5,0 Posted Jun 16, 2013, 7:21 am

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