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Balance PSI

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 How much for one blimp?? In all seriousness, I agree that discussion about these issues is healthy. Sam will work on what Sam feels he needs to work on. That does not mean that it is pointless to discuss other issues. As Bastille pointed out, if we have a healthy discussion, we will be ready to bring well formulated ideas to the table when/if Sam is ready to hear them. ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 3:02 am

MadDoggy Rabid Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 60 Joined: Nov 1, 2010 Brunwulf said: I have never had a PSI ganger, and knew nothing about it, I guess I just assumed the abilities would be to do with firing bonuses etc. Might be time to do some reading.  Psi powers are all outlined in the Darkwind Wiki. ......................... vet wv Posted Mar 13, 2013, 3:58 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 I read enough posts here to see that there is one hidden view that has not been addressed. I have no problem with psionics used in events that they are allowed in. Yes they are powerful game changers when used the right way and that is what the main complaint stems from. There is no real way to defend yourself against a psi ganger and that is probably the real reason this thread started. So lets focus in a different direction to solve this problem. Psionics could be tweeked so they are not as powerful, but there may be a better way to deal with this issue. Leave Psionics the way it is, but we just need to have counters available to match each skill. Pyro / fire extinguishers to put out fire or driver jumpsuits the will minimize damage. Extinguishers have bulk and need space in cargo to have one. Suits can be bought in towns. EMP / An Electronic Part that needs to be added to an engine or weapon that minimizes damage or turns that they will not work. These parts add bulk to their engine or weapon so you must sacrifice some much needed space. MIND CONTROL / Racing helmet that is worn to minimize or reduce turns that they affect their target. Item can be bought in the market. Other Psi Skills are not as strong and I feel that they do not need a counter for them. You also noticed that the counters I recommended only minimized and not negated the PSI skill. Thats because anyone who takes the time to train a ganger with psionics (ALLEY MEMBERS OR NOT), they should have some strengths that still give them the upper hand in combat due to the extended amount of time needed to train them properly. I am being as open minded as possible and looking at the positive things from both sides. I do not fault the Alley members who use psionics in events. I have only seen 4 players actually use psi in events (a very small player percent), so they should not be punished by taking that hard earned skill away because others voice complaints that it is not fair. If you have an issue with it, find a way to combat it (there are ways to do this too). Now, if we can agree upon some of my proposed counters that could be added for non-psionics gangs to obtain, we could be on our way to solving this issue. It will allow psonics to remain the the game and keep Sam focused on other bigger issues. His only time needed would be to implement the new counter items (which I hope won't take up too much time). I am currently a non-psionics gang and of course I will lean towards a counter implementation to help make things competitive. But if nothing is done and things remain status quo, I will still play the game, compete in the same events and do it the same way I have since I started almost 8 months ago. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 4:15 am

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 I am not convinced that adding additional items to counter high power abilities is the way to go. Reducing their effectiveness would be easier. An anti-psionic helmet?? Really, X?? I suppose it would be made of aluminum foil... ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 4:40 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Just ideas to throw out there to see if this would a viable solution. Items to reduce effectiveness or even a chance to miss would be well worth the effort to obtain one. We all know how one missed turn to change the outcome of an event. Not saying this is the way to go, but an option to explore to see if it would be a better solution than nerfing. The helmet could be made with a rare metal, kind of Magneto style. It would have to be because there ain't enough tin foil in Evan to wrap around your melon! Still waiting to see any comments or suggestions to this are made regarding counter possibilites. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 5:25 am Last edited Mar 13, 2013, 5:26 am by The X Man

Jose Bagg Taco Killers Autodueller Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 477 Joined: Sep 16, 2010 It is well known that the metal of the car the PSI is in will interfere with his abilities to use the power, so why not the metal of the car being targeted. For PYRO, and EMP, we could use extra bulk to put a metal shield around the engine. The amount of bulk you use for your shield, the more effective it is. Same with crew compartment. Might even give defensive bonus against PSI for using c armor. People might actually use it then. ......................... vet wv deathrce1 pvp5 paintball gateautumn deathrceL1 pvp4 pvp30,4,0 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 5:31 am Last edited Mar 13, 2013, 5:32 am by Jose Bagg

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 Magneto style anti- Psionic helmets !!!!! Have I been logging in to the wrong game the last couple of days? This is Car Wars on computer- or at least, I thought it was. Even Tinkers own 'Team-mates' have called to ban PSI from PVP events, because it is inherently unfair. I wasn't bleating cos I got whacked on Sunday night- I get whacked every Sunday night- and enjoy being so! When Necro picks me off from 150m, Or when Joel splats me with CCs within 10 turns, It's due to their skill- and that's fair enough... When someone telepathically turns my guns off- that isn't. Get it done and........ FIX SHANTY (And Morgan) ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 7:26 am Last edited Mar 13, 2013, 7:36 am by Brunwulf

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Quote: When Necro picks me off from 150m, Or when Joel splats me with CCs within 10 turns, It's due to their skill- and that's fair enough... If it was Tez it was because he was lucky, lets face it  ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 8:33 am

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 If you "Car Wars"... Steve Jackson is redoing it on Kickstarter.... or you can pull out the old AADA stuff. (think 300 for a moment) THIS.. IS... DARK WIND! (end moment) Second of all in most events, Psi is turned off.... CoE II is no rules, no limits. The reason behind the "Call for the Ban" from Joel etc... Some people really get tired of hearing the complaining and everything that comes with it. Just do what you were gonna say and try to eliminate them the old fashioned way.. if you must. Please keep the complaints to a minimum. These rules have been in place longer than I have been here. I live with it, I accept it, even fallen victim to psi's in CoE, culminating in the total loss of 2 HOF gangers and a well built BPU. I didn't complain , I just moved on and did what needing doing, and learned from it. Brunwulf said: Magneto style anti- Psionic helmets !!!!! Have I been logging in to the wrong game the last couple of days? This is Car Wars on computer- or at least, I thought it was. Even Tinkers own 'Team-mates' have called to ban PSI from PVP events, because it is inherently unfair. ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 11:59 am

*DoubleTap* The Ghosts Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 895 Joined: Jul 13, 2007 Joel Autobaun said: (Npcs never bitch on message boards). It would be fantastic if they did, though. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Mar 13, 2013, 1:35 pm

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 Brunwulf said: "I wasn't bleating cos I got whacked on Sunday night- I get whacked every Sunday night- and enjoy being so! When Necro picks me off from 150m, Or when Joel splats me with CCs within 10 turns, It's due to their skill- and that's fair enough... When someone telepathically turns my guns off- that isn't. " In all honesty, I don't really see the difference between someone having the ability to nail you from 150+ meters away, every shot, and someone who can simply turn your guns off for a few turns. When it all boils down, it's really about time invested. Time to train the high skill gunner, and time to train the high skill Psionic. One of the two takes a bit longer to get to epic levels. I equate Psionics with very high weapons skills....they are both very effective, without regard to range. ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 3:21 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Anyone can scout the #### out of npcs and get a 150 gunnery and sniper 3 (frankly rapid shot and highspeed is more important in coe...but why let...truth ruin a nice have not argument) Not everyone can go hardcore into mutants or get lucky with a y46 junkie. Rarely as I said can they get them trained to useful levels even if they do... Tinker is a natural at this game. Particularly pvp... he also has an incredible nack for managing to train gangers that are made to order for PvP in many different situations. He should definitely not be a yardstick for figuring out balance. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 4:06 pm

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 This is true. And that makes it all the more "fair" for those gang managers who have invested the time and effort into their Psionic assets. I don't see any reason to ban Psionics in PvP, any more than banning ultra high level gunners, drivers, etc. I would like to see the powers reduced a bit, but that's just me. A tank gun or dual car cannons can ignite a vehicle in one turn, as well... ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 4:46 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 I do see your point ... but in about five seconds someone is going to mention making specs including psi ones getting cr balanced and I swear to fkin god the nearest kitten to me is going to be slain cruelly. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 5:01 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 I think to balance psi you need to look at the way it's implemented from the beginning. What irks a lot of players is the fact that right now when you use psi it's in a non-dw way, meaning you apply your power at anytime within a turn, or even mid turn. It feels fake and outside of the game rules. So I'm thinking it should work like so: Option 1 at turn 9, you decide to use a psi power at turn 10, they get a concussion hit (blue text) 3-4 turns later the power used is applied (if target has moved out of range = FAILED) Option 2 turn 09, you decide to use a psi turn 10, you get a concussion hit turn 11, you get a 2nd concussion hit turn 12, you get a 3rd concussion hit turn 13, you get a 4th concussion hit, and power is applied Option 3 turn 09, you decide to use a psi turn 10, get a concussion hit turn 11, can release the power if you wish (then risk suffering a massive concussion hit) turn 12, can release the power if you wish (then risk suffering a bigger concussion hit) turn 13,  can release the power if you wish (then risk suffering a normal concussion hit) turn 14, can hold out, or release power (then risk suffering a weaker concussion hit) turn 15 can't hold out, must release power at double power (then risk suffering an even weaker concussion hit) turn 16 power fizzes out and is wasted harmlessly Now with the above, I think the psi users should get a negative modifier to other skills, or all other specialisms, (perhaps even remove them all), while they are concentrating. Current defenses against psionics for those who did not bother to read up on it. Shoot at the psi car, stress will hinder their psi attempts with more fails, and more critical fails Pyro: stay at range greater than 50 meters EMP: use weapons that don't use EPs, non v8 engines (not sure about rotaries) Terror: use high CR vehicles (i.e. SUV even unarmed) and or reasonably courageous gangers, the two stack to counter terror. Mind push: stay at range greater then 35 meters, using a car heavier than muscle will help greatly against the push. Dust cloud: range greater then 100 meters ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Mar 13, 2013, 5:50 pm Last edited Mar 13, 2013, 5:55 pm by *Tinker*

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 or... turn 09, you decide to use psi turn 10, you get out your wand turn 11, you sit in your bedroom shouting "incendiamus!" at the computer screen turn 12, you realise this is a gritty post apocalyptic turn based car combat game not harry potter turn 13, you disappear in a non magical fireball caused by all the other players blowing the crap out of you for being ridiculous turn 14, you burst into tears turn 15, your mum confiscates your wizard hat because you made it out of her best curtains oh and thanks for the lesson in defense against the dark arts Professor Lockhart ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 6:01 pm Last edited Mar 13, 2013, 6:10 pm by goat starer

Juris Hessians Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 16, 2010 goat starer said: or... turn 09, you decide to use psi turn 10, you get out your wand turn 11, you sit in your bedroom shouting "incendiamus!" at the computer screen turn 12, you realise this is a gritty post apocalyptic turn based car combat game not harry potter turn 13, you disappear in a non magical fireball caused by all the other players blowing the crap out of you for being ridiculous turn 14, you burst into tears turn 15, your mum confiscates your wizard hat because you made it out of her best curtains oh and thanks for the lesson in defense against the dark arts Professor Lockhart  Lol Turn 16: Other players become self-conscious that playing DW on their sofa isn't all that gritty or post apocalyptic.  Then they order a pizza and the feeling passes. ......................... vet wv pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 race1 zom pvp2 deathrce1 pvp3 combat1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 6:28 pm

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 HAHAHAHAHA!!! ROFLMAO! Juris said: goat starer said: or... turn 09, you decide to use psi turn 10, you get out your wand turn 11, you sit in your bedroom shouting "incendiamus!" at the computer screen turn 12, you realise this is a gritty post apocalyptic turn based car combat game not harry potter turn 13, you disappear in a non magical fireball caused by all the other players blowing the crap out of you for being ridiculous turn 14, you burst into tears turn 15, your mum confiscates your wizard hat because you made it out of her best curtains oh and thanks for the lesson in defense against the dark arts Professor Lockhart  Lol Turn 16: Other players become self-conscious that playing DW on their sofa isn't all that gritty or post apocalyptic.  Then they order a pizza and the feeling passes. ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 6:30 pm

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 Priceless. Best curtains....indeed ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Mar 13, 2013, 7:53 pm

MadDoggy Rabid Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 60 Joined: Nov 1, 2010 The solution, of course, is the invention of a Brain Bazooka. ......................... vet wv Posted Mar 13, 2013, 8:30 pm

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