CAMP SYSTEM (37 Votes)
No thanks!	40.54% - 15 votes
Yes please!	59.46% - 22 votes

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CAMP SYSTEM, - FAME POOL

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 I did abstain so far.. see other board.... ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Feb 15, 2013, 6:27 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Nec said: How does one prevent multi-camp owners from setting up dummy front owners to create larger pools? hmm.. they don't necessarily benefit from having multiple camps with a larger pool because they also have more overhead from their camps. It would be pointless. Am I answering the question? I am i clear? What problems do you see with multi-camp owners setting up dummy front owners to create larger pools? The mini pool from the alliance could be a simple average of the two camps, or some fancy calculation to weigh the fame more towards the highest fame camp, but at no point are you cheating the system because you can't artificially add or take away from the parent fame pool. edit: or instead of having a mini fame pool for alliances were each camp has it's own fame within the minipool, you could have just one fame for both camp(s) which is a flat average of all the concerned camps. ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Feb 15, 2013, 6:34 pm Last edited Feb 15, 2013, 6:37 pm by *Tinker*

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 I like the fame pool idea, but I also want camps that don't want to Pvp to be able to operate. I feel like this idea is pushing and forcing everyone to Pvp, and we cant have that. Myself on some days just want to come in and run a few PvE scouts.. and things must be simple ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Feb 15, 2013, 6:34 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Longo said: I like the fame pool idea, but I also want camps that don't want to Pvp to be able to operate. I feel like this idea is pushing and forcing everyone to Pvp, and we cant have that. Myself on some days just want to come in and run a few PvE scouts..  and things must be simple This has nothing to do with forced PvP in the wild, the only PvP concerned is the one no one has a problem with, that is town events and ScL. ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Feb 15, 2013, 6:39 pm Last edited Feb 15, 2013, 6:40 pm by *Tinker*

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 Thanks for clarifications Tinker. I'm in favor of making the cmap system more dynamic. I like the king of the hill ideas, but this is similar and so is interesting to me for that. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Feb 15, 2013, 6:55 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *Tinker* said: Longo said: I like the fame pool idea, but I also want camps that don't want to Pvp to be able to operate. I feel like this idea is pushing and forcing everyone to Pvp, and we cant have that. Myself on some days just want to come in and run a few PvE scouts..  and things must be simple This has nothing to do with forced PvP in the wild, the only PvP concerned is the one no one has a problem with, that is town events and ScL. Thanks for clarifying  ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Feb 15, 2013, 6:59 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 JS said: Thanks for clarifications Tinker.  I'm in favor of making the cmap system more dynamic.  I like the king of the hill ideas, but this is similar and so is interesting to me for that. Let's get the foundations right, and then see this king of the hill ideas ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Feb 15, 2013, 7:21 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Nec had some very tough questions, and i thought id share them Necrotech said: .. I would like to see more finite tuning and definition of: - The goals and objectives of the proposal The objective is to feel that you are, with the help of your comrades and allies, shaping the political landscape of Evans, that every action you undertake affects someone somewheres. Quote: - Direct and indirect impact on core game principles The direct impact is that the powers to be will be in a constant flux, alliances will be made, you will have to be active or ally yourself with an active community to be at the top. Quote: How is it going to affect regular camper... what is going to change for him. What benefits, additions, detractions, or changes will affect him/her? The camp members will feel like they are useful working as a team, knowing that everyone is involved, and they are not alone. working to the benefit of their camp or to a cause spanning multiple camps. Quote: Now apply the same "measuring stick to Camp Owners and GM's) What will change for them and how would they be afffected ? If they are in a active camp, they should never have to do the weekly fame refresh grind by themselves ever again, because every camp member is gaining fame everywhere they go. They will also feel like they are in a team of a bigger alliance knowing that they are responsible along with each of their members to win every battle fought and would have new options (alliances, neutrals, and enemies) and hence repercussions to think about. Quote: - Effects on PvE or causal players The casual player should know that if he looses a scout badly with loses of gangers or deaths in town event, not only will his gang suffer but his camp will suffer, to the benefit of all the other camps Quote: - Effects on PvP players The same rules that apply to PvE will apply to PvP, but right now were talking about just town events, but it's safe to say that very valuable gangster loses will be bad for camp fame and a noticeable boost for everyone else. Quote: - Effect on DW economies (if any) Besides that active players will influence the economy, all the above, this flux of activities will impact the fame of camps and alliances, it could be argued that in a far future if this Fame pool works that even money could be replaced by a favor system based on how famous you are, but we are not there yet ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Feb 15, 2013, 8:45 pm

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 Ok.. A definite good start. Now for the fun part.. the mechanics of it all. (to me anyways) I vote yes to continue along this vein. I myself would be intrigued and hopefully nicely surprised for the changes. Maybe Sam throw in some hidden goodies or gotcha in the background. Nice summary for a Project Proposal. ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Feb 15, 2013, 8:55 pm

*Splurs* Splurs Scroungers Racer Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 163 Joined: Dec 17, 2012 Sounds like a good idea, and I definately like the road system between close town, this I would imagine would be at the cost and scouting ability of the adjoining camps to make themselves. Being new to pretty much everything and not really having any idea of how camps works feel free to tell me Im wrong/dont know if any of this is pointless. If the fame points are fixed and there is the ability to form alliances to get a bigger fame pool, and we know that there is basically 2 factions in this game waring with each other what is to stop one faction getting the upper hand and driving the other camps down in fame. That sounds hard to explain so will try another way, (sorry Longo but dont know who is still classed as a Vet on the other team yet) AND to note im not picking on Alley this could swing the other way, just putting the point out there. So lets say Longo is sick of all the whining from the nonalley folk, so with his $50 billion dollars (am I close? ) he donates $1 billion dollars to everyone in the Alley and lets them buy camps and floods the camp market with Alley supporters and then makes them all in the alliance. The new members get small camps with little upkeep requirements thorugh to the big camps down south. They all start to suck away the fame from the "other" side, not to mention the smaller fish that dont want to be caught up in politics, this means the other side does exactly the same thing IF they have the money/personnel, OR they lose out fame and start to struglle to do anything from their camps. Not to mention the smaller fish gets even smaller due to the 2 waring sides. Is that possible? If anyone understands what I mean. ......................... vet wv marshal Posted Feb 15, 2013, 9:28 pm

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 Which is why these questions are VERY pertinent.... Is there a minimum or maximum of how many camps that can compose an Alliance pool? Is there a maximum amount of camps a single owner can add to an Alliance pool? How does one prevent multi-camp owners from setting up dummy front owners to create larger pools? When thinking up new systems, You also have to take into account human nature. How could one break, fiddle with, game, or manipulate it? In design of any type, you have to try and bulletproof it as best as possible. Splurs said: If the fame points are fixed and there is the ability to form alliances to get a bigger fame pool, and we know that there is basically 2 factions in this game waring with each other what is to stop one faction getting the upper hand and driving the other camps down in fame. That sounds hard to explain so will try another way, (sorry Longo but dont know who is still classed as a Vet on the other team yet) AND to note im not picking on Alley this could swing the other way, just putting the point out there. So lets say Longo is sick of all the whining from the nonalley folk, so with his $50 billion dollars (am I close?  ) he donates $1 billion dollars to everyone in the Alley and lets them buy camps and floods the camp market with Alley supporters and then makes them all in the alliance. The new members get small camps with little upkeep requirements thorugh to the big camps down south. They all start to suck away the fame from the "other" side, not to mention the smaller fish that dont want to be caught up in politics, this means the other side does exactly the same thing IF they have the money/personnel, OR they lose out fame and start to struglle to do anything from their camps. Not to mention the smaller fish gets even smaller due to the 2 waring sides. Is that possible? If anyone understands what I mean. ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Feb 15, 2013, 10:38 pm Last edited Feb 15, 2013, 10:42 pm by Necrotech

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Splurs said: If the fame points are fixed and there is the ability to form alliances to get a bigger fame pool, and we know that there is basically 2 factions in this game waring with each other what is to stop one faction getting the upper hand and driving the other camps down in fame. I understand what your saying, and let me assure you that it is impossible for things to play out like you fear. let's take for sake of round numbers that we have 30 camps and like a pool of 9000 fame for all the camps. that's 300 fame per camp now let's say the Alley rounds up 10 camps under an alliance. That alliance is not equal to 3000 fame because they still have 10 camps, so each camp is still worth 300 fame each, and are still limited by their fame. So nothing changes Quote: They all start to suck away the fame from the "other" side, not to mention the smaller fish that dont want to be caught up in politics, this means the other side does exactly the same thing IF they have the money/personnel, OR they lose out fame and start to struglle to do anything from their camps. Before talking about fame sucking from the "other" side, let me give an example under a normal peaceful  situation. let's take a league race in SS An independent camp's member finishes 1st He wins for his camp a fame prize that is proportional to the $$$ prize. Let's say it's 29 fame, so out of the fame pool comes out 29 fame, but since it's impossible to take away from the pool (it is fixed at 9000 fame), all the other 29 camps must give 1 fame each to the pool, and it's evenly distributed. This is were "alliance/enemy" status comes into play. There is a fame modifier for enemies, not allies and neutrals. Let's say JS comes along and grabs 10 camps under his banner, so that leaves 10 independent camps. JS declares the Alley enemy Let's take the league race example again. this time JS's camp the Consortium Truckstop wins 1st. The prize is still 29 fame, so out of the fame pool comes out 29 fame. Now it get's a little complicated, The Alley's alliance have to pay a little more because they are enemies. just throwing a number out, let's say it's 25% more each, so that's 1.25 points each = 12.5 fame points to the pool, all the other 20 camps now have to pay a little less to fill what's missing in the pool.. which comes out to.. 29-12.5 = 16.5 divide by 20 camps = 0.8 fame each the CTS would have gotten 29 fame but in fact the faction gains a little less because of the other 9 camps had to give a little to the pool, so in reality the CTS alliance gets 21 fame To recap precisely CTS alliance gets 20.75 fame Alley alliance loose 12.5 fame The rest loose .825 fame each The pool stays at 9000 The numbers look drastic, but it's only because the Alliances are so big, and it's an unlikely scenario ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Feb 16, 2013, 12:05 am

PA Racers PA Racers Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 1,005 Joined: Feb 11, 2010 My biggest consern with this is that all the league races will turn into what the coe events are now. How will you prevent that? A race should not be a team event, should be a singles event. How will combats go when you have 2 teams in the combat, but you end up with enemy camp members on your team and friendlies on the opposing team? You'll need some sort of official to monitor each event to make sure shady tactics are not being used. Mabie have to penalize a camp fame if they have a member taking out other racers so his team mate can win, or for using freindly fire to take out someone in a combat. Either way the penalty should be more or at least equal to what the win would gain them. ......................... vet wv ww northernsummer gwextrav gateautumn raceL1 race1 elmsautumn deathrceL1 e2g santa1 paintladder paintball pvp1 pvp4 pvp3 deathrce1 pvp2 combat1 circuit2 circuit3 circuit1 pvp528,161,23 Posted Feb 16, 2013, 12:45 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 This is a real tough point I think. Some shady tactics and team play is what should be going on. There will be too many events for one group to get into everything. I would think. On ya for the poll tink, make people vote and suddenly they come up with the good questions. All of these points could be monitored over a period and adjusted as needed I think. The basic idea definitely seems interesting. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Feb 16, 2013, 1:00 am

*Splurs* Splurs Scroungers Racer Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 163 Joined: Dec 17, 2012 Quote: To recap precisely CTS alliance gets 20.75 fame Alley alliance loose 12.5 fame The rest loose .825 fame each The pool stays at 9000 The numbers look drastic, but it's only because the Alliances are so big, and it's an unlikely scenario I hope that converted it to quotes, not sure how you usually do it, that is my point entirely. If JS was to get a few and start to dominate the alliances, then wont The Alley do the same to try to keep the balance/get an upper hand, then JS gets a few more to keep the upper hand. I understand this is an extreme view, however if the hole is there someone will exploit it. Bast is right, the point is interesting and a very good idea, the whole idea is going to have teething problems, play testing is generally the right way to go, however everyone needs to be on the same page, and PA is right too, exploiters need to be punished MORE than the gain would of been. Punishments need to be harsh, or else people will keep doing it. ......................... vet wv marshal Posted Feb 16, 2013, 2:32 am

Celticfrost Anarchy X Autodueller Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 492 Joined: Feb 14, 2011 Another serious concern would be for all the newer players who need the facilities of a camp to repair certain items, but who don't win 99% of events, these guys are gonna get cut from camps very quickly, especially particularly competitive camps. Point being, camps will evolve even more into a big boys club than they already are. ......................... vet wv zom pvp5 pvp2 Posted Feb 16, 2013, 2:40 am

PA Racers PA Racers Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 1,005 Joined: Feb 11, 2010 Yeah I had worried about that too! A gang that has a few bad scouts and brings a camps fame down, could get booted from a camp just for not being skilled enough yet. I like were the discussion has been headed here, but just think its a bit complicated really. I'd rather see a bonus simular to scl div 5 added to the rest of the league's. Also along with that a training modifier added to all the mech's working in shops at a camp. Really a mech working in the shops 7 days a week should gain some skill more so than the mech sitting in ss 7 days a week just going to the training center. ......................... vet wv ww northernsummer gwextrav gateautumn raceL1 race1 elmsautumn deathrceL1 e2g santa1 paintladder paintball pvp1 pvp4 pvp3 deathrce1 pvp2 combat1 circuit2 circuit3 circuit1 pvp528,161,23 Posted Feb 16, 2013, 3:05 am

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 I'm the bogey man, lmao. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Feb 16, 2013, 3:15 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Celticfrost said: Another serious concern would be for all the newer players who need the facilities of a camp to repair certain items, but who don't win 99% of events, these guys are gonna get cut from camps very quickly, especially particularly competitive camps. Point being, camps will evolve even more into a  big boys club than they already are. it depends on how the fame is weighted... I wouldn't imagine theres not(edit) too many bragging rights winning over a low fame gang. Wins over little people should be fairly insignificant. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Feb 16, 2013, 4:02 am Last edited Feb 16, 2013, 5:03 am by *Bastille*

*Splurs* Splurs Scroungers Racer Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 163 Joined: Dec 17, 2012 Would it be possible to run a trial with say 15-20 active camps, or how every many there are, run it in line with the current fame points, however if your "trial: fame is above your real fame you get a bonus of the trial fame (have both written down, your trial fame in red maybe?) if your trial fame is below your actual fame you get a note saying something along the lines of "if the trail system was active you would only be able to do XXXX" This way your not punishing anyone for the trial, and are rewarding those who are play testing it. The trial gets run for 3-6 months to see if it is worthwhile, and to iron out all the bugs. The only issue would be it might be a big issue trying to get the 2 systems to run in tandem. ......................... vet wv marshal Posted Feb 16, 2013, 4:40 am

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