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CoE Fairness please?!

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 Texan CoE3 rallys Race 1 - 211706 Race 2 - 211707 Notice the outragously enormous difference in track difficulty!? why on earth aren't both CoE races held on the same tracks? In the interests of fairness this is so obvious ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 2:05 pm

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Random = Fair. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Dec 10, 2012, 3:13 pm

*Jagged Monkey* Bazooka Joes Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 594 Joined: Jul 13, 2010 You can resolve any problem with a straw. SUCK IT UP! ......................... vet wv combatL1 semiprocombat marshal elmsautumn northernsummer0,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 4:15 pm

musashi_san sunset samurai Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,118 Joined: May 7, 2012 noticed this last season where there were courses that were almost uncompletable for one race and very very easy for the other. last seasons sars race is a fine example, i spent over an hour trying to get i think the 9th gate with only 1 10% tire left before giving up, and the second race joel and bobski finished in under 10 minutes with no problems. they really should both be the same, the way it is now makes it (very occasionally) more about some random element than skill. i don't know, maybe that's intentional, though. ......................... vet wv pvp4 pvp2 pvp1 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 4:28 pm

PvtParty Paceys Raiders Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 692 Joined: Aug 5, 2012 musashi_san said: i don't know, maybe that's intentional, though. I doubt it's intentional, but probably unavoidable. I'm guessing there's no way for the game to save a random track selection for a set number of events, as would be needed for this. I actually quite enjoyed the difficult nature of the Texan event I was in. Heck, I was leading up until the point my car caught fire, deep underwater...  [memo to self: next time, try looking at the floor of the pool you're using as a shortcut BEFORE entering said pool.] ......................... vet wv ss2fl67 pvp5 paintball pvp3 pvp2 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 4:50 pm

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 Yeah PvtParty- wasn't that just after gate 2 though! Seriously, after wasting an hour of my life yesterday, I was a little pissed off when I watched the replay of Joel and Foul tear their way around last night's event. OF COURSE both events should be held on the same track, and only a dumb monkey would say otherwise- oh wait- he did! ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 5:24 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 I remember that race well Musashi, I was the player trying to make that same gate with damaged engine, no tires and breached front armor. I eventually hit a terrain incline that caught my car on fire and had to resign. I do agree on the tracks being the same for both town events, but I do like the difficulty between them as well. Because if you can work the terrain while protecting your car, you just may be the last and only car to cross the finish line and get a well deserved 20 point 1st place finish. This last Texan COE 3 race we battle for the lead along with 80s. It was a very competitive race until gates 8 and 9. I made one bad turn and slide down the mountain side and had to take the loooonnnngggggg way around. I did finally manage to finish the race driving cautiously due to yet again, breached front armor. The hi-lite of that race was Toga. He destroyed his car in an oil pit, hiked his ped on foot over 2 mountain ranges and hopped into the car 8os abandoned when it got stuck. He drove it across the finish line for a 4th place finish! That was awesome! It is races like this that create "next turn" strategy changes in an event due to higher difficulty that really test your driving skill. It also evens the playing field unlike the flat tracks with little bumps where multiple driving specs make it hard to compete against. I would much rather race in a difficult rally than the easy one based on this aspect alone. The random difficulty needs to remain. If not, it will allow the point mongers at the top of the standings to continue with their dominance because they can wait out the competition until the second race knowing what track they will race on (The biggest impact would be COE 1 and 2 because you can change vehicles you enter based on the track terrain difficulty). Especially if waiting for the second race is the choice someone would make so they can watch the recording of the first race to plan their strategy. That is about as close to an exploit you can do without actually being in the event IMO. Now I am not saying any player would do this, but keeping tracks random will eliminate this as a possibility. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 6:09 pm

*Jagged Monkey* Bazooka Joes Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 594 Joined: Jul 13, 2010 I do remember that Sarsfield course last season. I couldn't get up one of the hills. I ended up shooting my car with an SMG. ......................... vet wv combatL1 semiprocombat marshal elmsautumn northernsummer0,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 6:33 pm

musashi_san sunset samurai Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,118 Joined: May 7, 2012 Quote: The hi-lite of that race was Toga. He destroyed his car in an oil pit, hiked his ped on foot over 2 mountain ranges and hopped into the car 8os abandoned when it got stuck. He drove it across the finish line for a 4th place finish! That was awesome! that i missed. was probably sitting in a pancake house eating breakfast with my family by the time he got there. how did he get 80's car unstuck? looked undoable to me... i also remember you and i trying *forever* to get up that hill. just could not be done, not without more than one tire. getting a zero that one race knocked me into third permanently last season. and yeah, thinking about it from the perspective of using watching the first to get an advantage in the second, i guess random makes sense. ......................... vet wv pvp4 pvp2 pvp1 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 7:32 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 My suggestion is slightly different here. But first I have 2 points to point out. First... If you have the same track for the 2nd iteration of the CoE event (1, 2, or 3) and you recon the first running for a an advantage... Remember your score is averaged. Odds are you wont do much better overall. If you got 5 points at night then dominated the day for 20, you only end up with around 12 or 13. The only benefit in risking a 2nd run would really just be about blocking your opposition's point gains. From my perspective anyway. Second... Is that ive noticed that there is a solution to every puzzle the Tracks offer. Perserverence is often as important any other factor unless you make a poor choice and damage your engine or ruin 1 or more tires early on. Even then, often there is a solution unless you have significant damage. I hate seeing someone choose resignation. Although, admittedlt, it once took me 1 hour and 45 min to complete an event (my first season, GW) ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 9:13 pm Last edited Dec 10, 2012, 9:18 pm by StCrispin

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 My suggestion is that the server "remember" gate placement and after the event, players of the event can fill out an event survey on the website. Rate the gate placements, completeability, etc. then Sam or another map savvy person can adjust the problematic gates and the track be stored in memory. Then when the event chooses the random track, it can pick either the saved track or perhaps just used gates that have "approved" positions (like spawn points). I know in alot of cases certain gates are NEARLY impossible. I spent 180 turns once in Sars trying to go up a sheer cliff with no alternate route once. By then the only player who hadnt resigned at gate 2 due to this, had finished. I finished that race 2nd but it was just plain stupid at that ONE gate! ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 9:25 pm Last edited Dec 10, 2012, 9:32 pm by StCrispin

musashi_san sunset samurai Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,118 Joined: May 7, 2012 Quote: The only benefit in risking a 2nd run would really just be about blocking your opposition's point gains. From my perspective anyway. you missed the point. you dont have to actually participate in the first race, you can just spectate or watch the replay.... ......................... vet wv pvp4 pvp2 pvp1 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 9:49 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Perhaps the random difficulty of the CoE tracks is a measure of Sam's desire for the participants' vehicles to be adaptable to many situations. If you bring an unarmed speeder, you're likely to be shot to pieces. If you bring a heavy tank, you're likely to struggle to hit the more difficult checkpoints. Maybe we're suppose to build vehicles somewhere 'in the middle' to deal with any situation? I understand why you would be frustrated about this, but you could try adapting. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 10:17 pm Last edited Dec 10, 2012, 10:18 pm by Groove Champion

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 I understand your point Groove- but I was mainly thinking of CoE3 Rallys when I first made this post. So it wouldn't really matter if you knew what the track was going to be- it wouldn't change your tactics because it's all stock cars anyway. Just thought that for the CoE3 league- the tracks should be the same for both races- even playing field. Cheers. ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 10:31 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 musashi_san said: Quote: The only benefit in risking a 2nd run would really just be about blocking your opposition's point gains. From my perspective anyway. you missed the point. you dont have to actually participate in the first race, you can just spectate or watch the replay.... Ahhh...  Yes,  you are correct.  I didnt think if that.  Good point.  I agree then, that the 2 should differ but be of equal difficulty.  I think the issue is steming more from the gate spawn points being nearly untennable ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 10:32 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Brunwulf said: I understand your point Groove- but I was mainly thinking of CoE3 Rallys when I first made this post. So it wouldn't really matter if you knew what the track was going to be- it wouldn't change your tactics because it's all stock cars anyway. Just thought that for the CoE3 league- the tracks should be the same for both races- even playing field. Cheers. Can't argue with that... if we're talking about a league that uses stock vehicles and those builds can't get through the checkpoints, then there really is an issue. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 10:35 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Groove Champion said: Perhaps the random difficulty of the CoE tracks is a measure of Sam's desire for the participants' vehicles to be adaptable to many situations. If you bring an unarmed speeder, you're likely to be shot to pieces. If you bring a heavy tank, you're likely to struggle to hit the more difficult checkpoints. Maybe we're suppose to build vehicles somewhere 'in the middle' to deal with any situation? I understand why you would be frustrated about this, but you could try adapting. So how do we adapt when it gives us an insane goatclimb with cliffs and rocks, and forces us to use an 8L Turin with only 5 points of armor?  In reguards to the "BYOCar" ones, I agree with you. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 10:35 pm Last edited Dec 10, 2012, 10:45 pm by StCrispin

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 Looking back at my first post, I realise that I didn't explain what I meant very well. Of course CoE1, and CoE2 events must have different tracks so that players in the later races can't review the earlier race and adjust their vehicles/tactics to suit. I meant to say that ONLY CoE3 events which are RACES- the tracks should be the same for both events to ensure fairness. Cheers. ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 10:43 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 After watching that replay, I think 2 things: 1. Those gates really were badly placed (Especially gate #8! Seriously!) 2. I wish I could have run that event ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Dec 10, 2012, 10:56 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Brunwulf said: I understand your point Groove- but I was mainly thinking of CoE3 Rallys when I first made this post. So it wouldn't really matter if you knew what the track was going to be- it wouldn't change your tactics because it's all stock cars anyway. Just thought that for the CoE3 league- the tracks should be the same for both races- even playing field. Cheers. Then all the hard core player would all watch a replay to get an edge, I like it better random, plus with your proposal what is to say that the game wouldn't spawn 2 terrible races ? which would encourage more watching replays to find "the" best route... ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Dec 10, 2012, 11:45 pm

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