Return Shanty to its True Vision (40 Votes)
Yes	67.5% - 27 votes
No	32.5% - 13 votes

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Return Shanty to its True Vision

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 lordhuey said:   Don't you see that complaining about how the change will affect the ways you personally do business is not winning any converts? Honestly, the only common theme I hear from the "no" voters involves how they currently operate out of TX.  Sounds like a change to SV will hurt your business. I niether operate out of TX nor travel through Shanty.  I operate out of Sarsfield and take the much easier road to BL.  My "No" vote is based on the "yes" voters who want to prey on "no" voters when they drive by. lordhuey said: 99% of the country doesn't have any ridiculous restrictions on the height of the houseplants you grow.  See, again, maybe the problem is not with everyone else in the world but with your own choices which put your own self into your own unique situation. Try letting your grass grow knee deep and see if there isnt.  There are alot of little items that you dont know about until someone shows up looking for their kickback that you forgot to pay. Or to tell you, you cant have something.  Fence heights, property coverage, distances your belongings have to be from the property lines, plant heights, etc...  99% of them tied to you having to pay the city some money  for the right to do what you want with your own belongings.  Granted, as a homeowner in a major metropolitain area, I face more regulations and fees than would someone who only rents or lives in a rural area.  But they exist statewide and every state has its own regulations. There are normally loopholes though.  For example, next year I am planting my garden in the BACKyard.  Items in the BACK do not lower property tax values and do not "rob" the city, county, and state of "their" money.  And are thus less regulated.  (this is fact not opinion.  Says so in the planning office guides). Im not imlplying America is broke... I mean broken... We all know we are broke.  Lol.  Im trying to point out that our arguements are as flawed as the political garbage we get incenced about in real life.  I think we are better than that... ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 11:41 pm Last edited Dec 4, 2012, 1:12 am by StCrispin

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 StCrispin said: I agree with longo.  Also, since "safe sanctuary" towns are now more dangerous, their spawns for rares should be increased Outrageous. If your flag is off, there is absolutely no change in the danger level. Could you please start checking your facts?!? ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 12:12 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 LH said: Honestly, the only common theme I hear from the "no" voters involves how they currently operate out of TX. Sounds like a change to SV will hurt your business. While these arguments may seem empirical to you, as the change would absolutely affect you, other folks probably greet your statements with rolled-eyes. Im not sure about others, Ive given detail to my operations to give some transparency. In my case its not about loot farming. It IS about the short cut, and this route is easy for me to take right now, easy enough that I will not think about running through SF. Take of that what you will. Longo said: If this vote fails, then Shanty's rare spawn should be dropped to GW levels rather than the best in the game. The only reason they were this high was to try and generate people to scout here and generate Pvp activity back when Shanty opened as a total Pvp Town. If this is no more, then its rare spawn should be returned to a level consistent with its maps and area. Not sure this vote will come to a No, lots in favour of the change back it seems. Whether yes or no.... yep, agree, but the enemy should be tough. On most encounters I only find the odd Stone, Pulv, Peg or WD. I very rarely find a buzzer travelling through the region with 2000+ CR. Twice I have found an FE (pretty sure that was scouting, not travelling). So from my pov I would say it sits well (this is travelling through the area, probably 200 trips at least for the described loot. Sounds about right, not too good, but its pretty tough 5 on 18 in an ambush). I do know that others trawl the area with nets and get Black Marlin at will (and why I agree with the above statement. Its  a mutant Shanty town, and theres mega Laser Gattling cannons to be found there. Doesn't quite sit right with me). The road should be tough to travel, not a loot farm, imo. High end loot should sit more on the big factory towns. If the loot is there for PvP incentive, does that make sense, plenty travel the region, numbers is not the issue. I don't think love for your country or bitching about it comes into it, you need to love something a lot to bitch about it so much. Who doesn't bitch about their wife or partner Such is life. Im an aussie, and I still bitch about the US, I wouldn't waste my breath doing this for some low life country like New Zealand (... jokes, points at 80s and laughs at the sheep burgler) ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 12:55 am Last edited Dec 4, 2012, 12:58 am by *Bastille*

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Groove Champion said: StCrispin said: I agree with longo.  Also, since "safe sanctuary" towns are now more dangerous, their spawns for rares should be increased Outrageous. If your flag is off, there is absolutely no change in the danger level. Could you please start checking your facts?!? So if I scout with a player with his flag ON we cant be intercepted and "there is absolutly no change in the danger level" ?  I stand corrected.  I was under the impression that if the scout host was PvP ON then the entire scout was PvP ON. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 1:04 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 *Ninesticks* said: If the reason for opening up Shanty again was to deliberately benefit the PvP players then you would be correct to a degree. But I don't think that is the case at all. As far as I recall Shanty was introduced as the shortcut to Texan at a risk (apart from being the forerunner for Scav in some ways). With Shanty not being open it doesn't contribute to that risk (however slight it was). So zero gain? I don't think so, even if the gain is merely a phantom of what might happen taking that route. With the town now being like any other I would be surprised if the southern route is seeing much use, after all why would you bother when you have a route where you can stop off to get your armour patched up and then carry on again at no extra risk? If the idea is to make the route short and dangerous, there are much better ways to do that than to open up the central town to PvP. More difficult maps on the route,  or more numerous low value high danger enemies etc. Just like the GW-EL vs GW-SS-EL, now that it there is no travel size limit for the shorter route. BL-SV-TX is so much shorter than BL-SF-TX though, that it's really quite absurd to expect people to take the second route, regardless of the amount of danger added. Especially considering that the maps on the BL-SF-TX maps have some of the worst maps in the game to get a large ambush on. Big ass canyons with nowhere to go. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 1:09 am

Alec Burke Overlanders Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 480 Joined: Sep 5, 2010 *Bastille* said: Not sure this vote will come to a No, lots in favour of the change back it seems. Whether yes or no.... It also doesn't really matter what this vote comes to, as this is the suggestion forum and not an official vote.  ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp2 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 1:22 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 StCrispin said: Groove Champion said: StCrispin said: I agree with longo.  Also, since "safe sanctuary" towns are now more dangerous, their spawns for rares should be increased Outrageous. If your flag is off, there is absolutely no change in the danger level. Could you please start checking your facts?!? So if I scout with a player with his flag ON we cant be intercepted and "there is absolutly no change in the danger level" ?  I stand corrected.  I was under the impression that if the scout host was PvP ON then the entire scout was PvP ON. What does this have to do with Shanty? What does your rampant hatred for veterans have to do with Shanty? I'm already getting way off topic by wasting time on you, so this is the last of it for me. I suggest you take yourself out of the argument as well and leave the discussion here to those who have an interest in Shanty and a basic understanding of how this game functions. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 1:32 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 GrooveChampion said: What does this have to do with Shanty? You maybe missed that post.  Longo said the rares loot from Shanty should be reduced if it doesnt return to PvP due to less danger.  I agreed with him.  From a uniformity standpoint reducing rares found in towns made more  safe means we should increase rares in towns made less safe (although this has already happened but maybe not for that reason) Then you disagreed.  And stated no place was made safer, that PvP OFF was PvP OFF and that my idea of how interception worked was flawed.  I was under the impression that a PvP OFF player could be attacked in places like SS if scouting with someone who was PvP ON.  However you pointed out that this is NOT the case. As such, then my agreement with longo would be based on incorrect data. GrooveChampion said: What does your rampant hatred for veterans have to do with Shanty? You assume too much.  Anyone here think I hate them? GrooveChampion said: I suggest you take yourself out of the argument and leave the discussion here to those who have an interest in Shanty I have an interest in Shanty.  I have crews abd cars there but its a soloers town so they sat there unused for the past 8 months.  I'd like to see a change to make it appealing and attract people ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 2:10 am Last edited Dec 4, 2012, 2:39 am by StCrispin

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 I think its good some of these feelings come out. Whether based on fact or not, it shows the reasons behind decisions, and that can make it easier to sift through the rubble. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 2:10 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Since most of what I have to contribute to this discussion is more of a.set.of suggestions and ideas to make PvP ON a more appealing way of life, or making locations more populated (lack of ppl to do anything in the towns south of GW was my biggest dissapointment while I was subbed, FYI), I will make a more appropriate and focused thread when I can do it on something other than this accursed phone. Ugh! ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 2:45 am

Alec Burke Overlanders Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 480 Joined: Sep 5, 2010 StCrispin said: You maybe missed that post.  Longo said the rares loot from Shanty should be reduced if it doesnt return to PvP due to less danger.  I agreed with him.  From a uniformity standpoint reducing rares found in towns made more  safe means we should increase rares in towns made less safe (although this has already happened but maybe not for that reason) I don't believe that the rare spawn rates in SS, Elms and GW were ever reduced from the rates when all three were PVP only town (like all of Evan originally). So by that standard, even today they are safer than when they were created and "rares" spawn too often in relation to the level of danger. So I guess both you and Longo feel the rares in those three towns should actually be reduced? ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp2 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 3:26 am

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 Groove: If your flag is OFF, and you scout with someone whos flag is ON, you may be intercepted just as easily as if your own flag were ON. That's the way it works. I've seen it happen, ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 3:39 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Alec Burke said: StCrispin said: You maybe missed that post.  Longo said the rares loot from Shanty should be reduced if it doesnt return to PvP due to less danger.  I agreed with him.  From a uniformity standpoint reducing rares found in towns made more  safe means we should increase rares in towns made less safe (although this has already happened but maybe not for that reason) I don't believe that the rare spawn rates in SS, Elms and GW were ever reduced from the rates when all three were PVP only town (like all of Evan originally). So by that standard, even today they are safer than when they were created and "rares" spawn too often in relation to the level of danger. So I guess both you and Longo feel the rares in those three towns should actually be reduced? sure!  Lol, I dont see many rares there anyway. Though I do think rares and loot valuables should be tied to some governing factor uniformly.  And danger or difficulty levels are a good starting point to apply that. Ive seen better loot near BL than ive seen down near SV.  And just as many cars shot lasers at me in FL or SF as they ever did near SV. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 5:00 am

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Sere said: If the idea is to make the route short and dangerous, there are much better ways to do that than to open up the central town to PvP. More difficult maps on the route,  or more numerous low value high danger enemies etc. The original idea was to make the route short and dangerous. As this was a discussion/vote on reversion then the original purpose of the town should be made clear (imo). Certainly, there are other ways of making the shorter route more dangerous that could and should be looked at as well. But I don't think we should just dismiss what was already done as it doesn't necessarily tick all the boxes by itself. Quote: Just like the GW-EL vs GW-SS-EL, now that it there is no travel size limit for the shorter route. No that limit wasn't found to be particularly useful in of itself I believe. The best way to limit squad size is in the map designs themselves I reckon. Quote: BL-SV-TX is so much shorter than BL-SF-TX though, that it's really quite absurd to expect people to take the second route, regardless of the amount of danger added. I don't expect anyone to go any particular route, that was just the carrot as it were to tempt people in order to give people a meaningful choice (which takes us back to square one again). Quote: Especially considering that the maps on the BL-SF-TX maps have some of the worst maps in the game to get a large ambush on. Big ass canyons with nowhere to go. Again I kind of agree with you, but how good or bad a map is will vary significantly by play style, squad composition, character skill etc. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 6:24 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Blackwill said: Groove:  If your flag is OFF, and you scout with someone whos flag is ON, you may be intercepted just as easily as if your own flag were ON. That's the way it works.  I've seen it happen, I know this. Far off is the day when StC actually teaches me anything about this game. And it isn't "you may be intercepted just as easily" because it barely ever happens. Anyone who is arguing that they will be bullied through PvP should really list event IDs. But I know this won't happen because it's far too much work to dig through hundreds of events to find 'that one event you got intercepted and promptly truced out'. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 11:41 am

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 Completely irrelevant- but... Shanty is an important town for newish players. I myself, and other new players I have spoken to, made their first real money by buying cheap stuff from Shanty player market and driving it back to SS for a good mark-up. Just thought I would mention that- for what it's worth. Cheers. ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 5:01 pm

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 "Just as easily" is relative. But, intercepts in SS are certainly on the rise. ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 5:28 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Groove Champion said: Blackwill said: Groove:  If your flag is OFF, and you scout with someone whos flag is ON, you may be intercepted just as easily as if your own flag were ON. That's the way it works.  I've seen it happen, I know this. then why did you lie in your prior post to support your side of the vote?  Its bad enough you insult people who disagree with you (to reduce their credibility and marginalize them?), but at least dont use falsehoods to discount the countering side's arguement ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 4, 2012, 7:51 pm Last edited Dec 4, 2012, 7:52 pm by StCrispin

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 we have a poll *bump* ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Feb 21, 2013, 9:28 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 I'm glad you found this tinker. [quote=*Ninesticks*][quote=Sere] If the idea is to make the route short and dangerous, there are much better ways to do that than to open up the central town to PvP. More difficult maps on the route, or more numerous low value high danger enemies etc. [/quote] The [i]original idea was[/i] to make the route short and dangerous. As this was a discussion/vote on reversion then the original purpose of the town should be made clear (imo). Certainly, there are other ways of making the shorter route more dangerous that could and should be looked at as well. But I don't think we should just dismiss what was already done as it doesn't necessarily tick all the boxes by itself.[/quote] both would probably be good. What maps would be good for more difficult? it would be possible to limit these like the morgan maps, but that may cause outrage. Id still probably run 3 lorries down the road, given the chance ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Feb 21, 2013, 9:41 am Last edited Feb 21, 2013, 9:42 am by *Bastille*

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