Return Shanty to its True Vision (40 Votes)
Yes	67.5% - 27 votes
No	32.5% - 13 votes

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Return Shanty to its True Vision

*Jagged Monkey* Bazooka Joes Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 594 Joined: Jul 13, 2010 What evs.... ......................... vet wv combatL1 semiprocombat marshal elmsautumn northernsummer0,1,0 Posted Dec 2, 2012, 10:49 pm

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 Is it possible to have a serious discussion on these matters without resorting to sophomoric insults and wholly negative comments? Players play these games for different reasons, all of them as valid as the next. Striking a balance should be considered an important, serious matter, as it directly affects player participation and longevity. Might I suggest that we try to, for the sake of discussion, to put aside our petty personal differences, and concentrate on the real issues? That would be awesome. Thanks in advance for your kind consideration.... ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Dec 2, 2012, 10:50 pm

*Brunwulf* Wulf Guard Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,299 Joined: May 17, 2012 Blackwill- I totally agree...... but don't hold your breath! ......................... vet ww wv e2g gwextrav sssc northernsummer gateautumn deathrce1 marshal race1 raceL1 combat1 pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 2, 2012, 10:56 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 I strongly suggest people posting in this thread take a moment to read Serephe's posts up to now. Answering his observations would be much more constructive than bitching out other players, or bringing SS into the picture (seriously, wtf?!) ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Dec 2, 2012, 11:10 pm

lordhuey Cranberries Sunday Driver Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: Jun 24, 2012 Sifting through the pages of this thread, I think the following two posts pretty much summed up two sides of the issue.  Personally, I agree with the spirit of what Tinker is saying:  PvP always open in Shantyville gives hardcore PvPers a place to go and whoop it up.  Doesn't every spaghetti western need a real Shantytown?  This is Darkwind and you do have the option of "wasting" character time by traveling the long way, your choice. Serephe said: I really don't see a reason to open the town to PvP. Not only does it confuse the PvP issue making exceptions to the rule this way or that, but the way Shanty is set up, making it open PvP basically only provides a place for the most developed of gangs (those that can regularly perform the logistics of moving large quantities of ammunition, replacement hardware, etc) to pick on non-pvp people traveling to Texan who don't want to spend the next week of their life traveling the roundabout route. Shantyville was basically the precursor to Scavenger, anyway. *Tinker* said: Funny Sere, all the reasons you point out are the good reasons why Shanty should be changed back to what it was originally. What game are you playing again? sure doesn't sound like the dark wind I remember and signed up for. ......................... vet wv Posted Dec 2, 2012, 11:37 pm

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 *Tinker* said: Funny Sere, all the reasons you point out are the good reasons why Shanty should be changed back to what it was originally. What game are you playing again? sure doesn't sound like the dark wind I remember and signed up for. Sorry Tinker, I didn't see this post until lordhuey pointed it out. The darkwind I remember and signed up for didn't include any pvp flags. Or shantyvilles. Or firelights, peds, trash trucks, or any semblance of balance with loot for that matter(remember buying RGMs from SS shop and looting heavy lasers/ambulances on BL gates map?). The game evolves over time. Obviously some changes are good for certain people, obviously some changes are bad for certain people. Sam has made it clear that he doesn't want to force people to do something they don't want to do. I believe he even mentioned that if he did it all again, he'd make the game entirely cooperative rather than pvp, though I may be remembering this incorrectly. The majority of bad changes to PvP have, as far as I have seen, been caused by both people wanting the option NOT to have to PvP and a lack of clarity as to how PvP actually works. I personally see zero gain from opening a town to open PvP for all because the people who have interest in that kind of PvP already have their flags open. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 12:40 am

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 Serephe said: I personally see zero gain from opening a town to open PvP for all because the people who have interest in that kind of PvP already have their flags open. VERY good point... I totally agree. There are some that would say without "forced" PvP the farmers could farm the rares and they couldn't retaliate... I don't necessarily agree with that frame of mind, but it's out there... I would change my vote to "no" if I could. ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 1:19 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Or those farming the rares cant murdur off the people who would rather capture a rare instead of paying excessive prices to the farmer to buy it. How better to monopolize a market than kill the consumer when he tries to provide for himself... Oh wait... That sounds like America. OOC: The city got onto me for having a garden and for having solar panels. I was cutting into their profit. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 2:10 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Don't you ever get tired of your conspiracy theories? Yet again, I remind you that intercepting another player's squad is very difficult to do: there is a huge amount of (lucky) timing involved, as well as a high chance of watching the other player's squad slip through your fingers (there is a built-in [i.e. coded] chance of this happening every time a player successfully ATTEMPTS an intercept). I'm not for or against changing Shanty, but seriously StC: would you please stop demonizing PvP players and veterans? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 3:03 am

Blackwill Shankill Butchers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 650 Joined: Jul 27, 2012 St. Crispin: What city were you in when this happened? ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 3:16 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Considering the RP threats recieved when I was bringing rares north, and the tactics I was told would be employed against me if I tried to enter into certain players monopolized markets, I think I do know what im talking about. Luckily I was only bringing them north for personal use so no one bothered to follow through once I explained this. Im certainly not demonizing anyone. Im simply pointing out motivations that could be in play. I dont care what is done to shanty. There is no reason to drive through there since it is one of the most difficult strips in the game other than between TX and SF. I just have stuff there to scout, but no one there wants to group scout so my guys sit around drinking booze with Muties ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 3:25 am Last edited Dec 3, 2012, 3:26 am by StCrispin

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Blackwill said: St. Crispin:  What city were you in when this happened? Kansas City, Missouri, USA. It seems you have to purchase a "special use permit" to plant food crops.  My neighbor tried to plant corn...  Thats probably what attracted their attention to my lettuce and beets, and my roommate's tomato plant.  City code states you may not have any plant in excess of 10" tall also.  Including trees unless they are registered with the planning office and on your lot diagram thingy they keep on file.  The solar issue turned out ok since I knew the loophole of having it not permanently attached to the house, and off-grid (not wired into the home wires or city's electric). ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 3:34 am Last edited Dec 3, 2012, 3:35 am by StCrispin

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Sere said: I personally see zero gain from opening a town to open PvP for all because the people who have interest in that kind of PvP already have their flags open. If the reason for opening up Shanty again was to deliberately benefit the PvP players then you would be correct to a degree. But I don't think that is the case at all. As far as I recall Shanty was introduced as the shortcut to Texan at a risk (apart from being the forerunner for Scav in some ways). With Shanty not being open it doesn't contribute to that risk (however slight it was). So zero gain? I don't think so, even if the gain is merely a phantom of what might happen taking that route. With the town now being like any other I would be surprised if the southern route is seeing much use, after all why would you bother when you have a route where you can stop off to get your armour patched up and then carry on again at no extra risk? ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 6:13 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 *Ninesticks* said: Sere said: I personally see zero gain from opening a town to open PvP for all because the people who have interest in that kind of PvP already have their flags open. If the reason for opening up Shanty again was to deliberately benefit the PvP players then you would be correct to a degree. But I don't think that is the case at all. As far as I recall Shanty was introduced as the shortcut to Texan at a risk (apart from being the forerunner for Scav in some ways). With Shanty not being open it doesn't contribute to that risk (however slight it was). So zero gain? I don't think so, even if the gain is merely a phantom of what might happen taking that route. With the town now being like any other I would be surprised if the southern route is seeing much use, after all why would you bother when you have a route where you can stop off to get your armour patched up and then carry on again at no extra risk? Other than the southern route having a smaller number of cumulative encounters and easier maps? IMO Texan should be eliminated entirely.  Whatever unique properties it has (if any...  other than Bastilles awsome track) should be merged with Sarsfield.  Then Shantyville would be "the end of the line" for the road it is on (which is fitting since it is a town of misfits and mutants who are trying to be isolated from the rest of Evan).  Then some other incentive should be added to SV to attract those who would normally stay away.  THEN it would be understandable to make it the "Hardcore Mode Town" Maybe add a feature where gangs can manufacture things like camps (but less cost effectively than camps to offset it).  This would make it less appealing than camp manufacture yet appealing to those who like to be independant.  Or even have a percursor to "Ruins" where you can send out a Ped scout vs peds or creatures or something plausable to fight.  That would bring your Ped-centric there. PvP open, Ped vs Ped scout intercepts...  that would be sweet. But thats "suggestions" rather than on topic so it really merits a seperate thread. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 6:26 am Last edited Dec 3, 2012, 6:26 am by StCrispin

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 I think all towns have the potential of offering something different, and it doesn't have to rely on any special mechanism for that town (like with Morgan or Shantyville, when it was a PvP town). I scout Texan because I can hit my natural enemy there. Its the best place for me to do this. I can do this in GW but find it easier and more entertaining in Texan. As it is, I still find privateers, raiders or anarchists far more than I really wish too (such is life) and need to offset these fights with big targets, which I can find in Texan (generally BHs, and don't generally get any good loot out of them unless I want a bus in Firelight). I don't hunt Shanty because the targets there are my friends, and theres no point hitting on them unless I want to farm loot, which I don't. So I rarely scout from SV. The only reason I fight at the gates of SV is due to the fact I need to travel through the region often. It takes me a week to travel from Texan to EL and back, in that time camp can chomp through the supplies I get from that trip. So pretty much have to do this constantly with a 2 Lorry squad to keep things running, or, spend lots of money or have to make deals with other players. Possible, but unreliable. If the trip was roughly 900 miles longer (through SF) this would add a couple days to this trip. I alluded to the idea above of making SF a higher yield area to attract more attention, or maybe changing the faction balance a bit might help people find reason to visit. Thats not really the point though, its making the shortcut harder. So the opposite should stand true. A longer, but easier route. I personally think this should be done with harder maps (make the route more shortcutty), not special plans for one town. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 8:56 am

lordhuey Cranberries Sunday Driver Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: Jun 24, 2012 With all the blather on here, the best argument you "no" voters have is the simple one: PvP closed is PvP closed, even in SV. This is a much more universal argument than all of your others ones. Don't you see that complaining about how the change will affect the ways you personally do business is not winning any converts? Honestly, the only common theme I hear from the "no" voters involves how they currently operate out of TX. Sounds like a change to SV will hurt your business. While these arguments may seem empirical to you, as the change would absolutely affect you, other folks probably greet your statements with rolled-eyes. - >>>BTW, not to fan the flames, but tying in your complaints about your community bylaws does not really mean there is something wrong with America. 99% of the country doesn't have any ridiculous restrictions on the height of the houseplants you grow. See, again, maybe the problem is not with everyone else in the world but with your own choices which put your own self into your own unique situation. ......................... vet wv Posted Dec 3, 2012, 5:09 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 The name of this poll what to vote weather or not to make Shanty what it was before, what it was designed as. It's a Pity that reason is labelled Pro PVP, Rich Vet, Hard Core, or what ever. It's like Some people can't see the forest through the trees. This poll is yet another example of the level of "hand-out" culture we have, many want's Sam to carve them a little "make it easier for me" slice. A wise man  said: If the reason for opening up Shanty again was to deliberately benefit the PvP players then you would be correct to a degree. But I don't think that is the case at all. As far as I recall Shanty was introduced as the shortcut to Texan at a risk (apart from being the forerunner for Scav in some ways). With Shanty not being open it doesn't contribute to that risk (however slight it was). So zero gain? I don't think so, even if the gain is merely a phantom of what might happen taking that route. With the town now being like any other I would be surprised if the southern route is seeing much use, after all why would you bother when you have a route where you can stop off to get your armour patched up and then carry on again at no extra risk? ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Dec 3, 2012, 7:11 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 If this vote fails, then Shanty's rare spawn should be dropped to GW levels rather than the best in the game. The only reason they were this high was to try and generate people to scout here and generate Pvp activity back when Shanty opened as a total Pvp Town. If this is no more, then its rare spawn should be returned to a level consistent with its maps and area. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 10:55 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 I agree with longo. Also, since "safe sanctuary" towns are now more dangerous, their spawns for rares should be increased ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 11:04 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 StCrispin said: I agree with longo.  Also, since "safe sanctuary" towns are now more dangerous, their spawns for rares should be increased You lost me. How are safe sanctuary towns more dangerous now? ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Dec 3, 2012, 11:28 pm

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