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Abuse of loaned cars?

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I think the current situation with totally free loaned cars might be asking for abuse.. too easy to ditch the cars to bring home loot, or even worse strip them first. We should probably have some form of deposit and payment, just like in regular DW..? What do you think? How much should these cost (and what is the best resource to charge with?) ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 8:52 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 To be completly honest... no, I dont think it's to much of an issue. Without the rentals, scouting would go very deep into the "Annyoing" territory you mentioned the other day, simply put in the early game gatering enough recourses for working vehicles is hard enough. From my perspective I did my first 3 car solo yesterday, I now have 2 operating combat vehicles (soon a third) but finding ammo enough for them is difficult. Without the rentals and their free ammo, well, it would be a chore more than difficult. As for ditching rentals, people do that because of the 1 hour delay if they keep in the squad, we like to scout more than once an hour or more depending on ditance and waiting for the rental to get back is annoying As for stripping, you'll need a decent mech to get those nice guns in perfect shape, I think people strip them because they assume* it gives mech training... *Does it give mech training, I'd like to know that to (Holy crap, I really failed to spell-check that post ) ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 8:59 am Last edited Sep 14, 2011, 9:20 am by FireFly

Rokkitz Monarchs Autodueller Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: Nov 26, 2009 Yes, it is abusable. A refundable deposit might be the solution? However, if you lose your deposit by failing a scout, my might be unable to pay for another and we would be back to the basic reason why they exist in the first place. The real reason to keep using rentals after you have gained your first car is that they come with ammo. In any normal scout (using the Eliminator rental, killing two enemy cars and driving one of them home) you would use 2-3 clips of MG ammo (or parts of clips that will need reloading anyway). Hence, to be able to continue fighting in the long run (refilling guns, not brining extra reloads), we need to win 2-3 clips per scout/player. This is not the current loot status. I suggested before to reduce the quality of rental engine and guns to 85-90%. Result: 1) Stripping no longer yields 100% guns. 2) More players would bring their own cars. ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 14, 2011, 10:06 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Rokkitz said: I suggested before to reduce the quality of rental engine and guns to 85-90%. Result: 1) Stripping no longer yields 100% guns. 2) More players would bring their own cars. Good idea.. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 10:48 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 *sam* said: Rokkitz said: I suggested before to reduce the quality of rental engine and guns to 85-90%. Result: 1) Stripping no longer yields 100% guns. 2) More players would bring their own cars. Good idea.. No they wont, personally I'll always welcome and use that extra screener, as it's hard to find ammo enough to run your full crew in your own vehicles... Bottom line, we proboably need more ammo in the loot... ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 10:50 am

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 *sam* said: Rokkitz said: I suggested before to reduce the quality of rental engine and guns to 85-90%. Result: 1) Stripping no longer yields 100% guns. 2) More players would bring their own cars. Good idea.. try it, and also would be nice if some AI around SS had similar gear, i.e. jammed weapons and smoky engines! ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Sep 14, 2011, 10:56 am Last edited Sep 14, 2011, 10:57 am by *Tinker*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 they already get pre-damaged weapons, Tink, I'm just now implementing it for their engines too.. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 11:07 am

Stevello Goldfish Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: Jun 15, 2009 How about no ammo in borrowed car guns. ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 14, 2011, 12:30 pm

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Baaah, do it yakuza style... No returned car? Pay with a random limb of a random ganger (Leg, Arm or Eye) ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 1:01 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 That's a hard one to come up with a solution Sam... Yes, it's abusable, but like the others said the reason I keep using them is because of the ammo... ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 2:39 pm

Rokkitz Monarchs Autodueller Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: Nov 26, 2009 FireFly said: Baaah, do it yakuza style... No returned car? Pay with a random limb of a random ganger  (Leg, Arm or Eye)  The more I think about it, the more I like this solution. It is so beautiful in its simplicity. It is surely felt, but not crippling to the gang (well, it IS crippling but not financially). +1 (but add ears and toes for some random fun, "you got off light this time...") Its even pretty in game balance terms. In the beginning it is not so bad, most gangers wont survive anyhow. But once you have skilled up your gangers? Well, why the heck are you using rentals!? ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 14, 2011, 3:23 pm

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 An idea floated some time ago is "Amateur Night." Win the event, keep your car. Maybe let the top three finishers keep their car or just have more events if the cars available aren't matching up with the number of gangs that need them. Make 'em moderately crappy cars to remove the temptation to only do these events. The loaners are the single biggest flaw I see in Scav at this point. Easily abused. Just plain doesn't make sense from a RP standpoint (who's this guy that keeps giving us cars for nothing, anyway?). Thus far I've seen more loaners than owned cars (a LOT more), even from people who have one or two functional vehicles. One last thought: Make loaners available, but only to gangs who have no cars of their own. I would say only to those with no cars available at that time, but it's too easy to schedule "repairs" on a vehicle to coincide with your desire for a no-risk loaner. Two cents, donated! EDIT: Oh, and the "pay an arm and a leg for the lost rental" idea is sheer genius. So consider my suggestions secondary. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Sep 14, 2011, 6:30 pm Last edited Sep 14, 2011, 6:31 pm by JeeTeeOh

Juris Hessians Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 16, 2010 JeeTeeOh said: The loaners are the single biggest flaw I see in Scav at this point.  Easily abused.  Just plain doesn't make sense from a RP standpoint (who's this guy that keeps giving us cars for nothing, anyway?).  Sam And yeah, we need Amateur Night.  Kill for your car. ......................... vet wv pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 race1 zom pvp2 deathrce1 pvp3 combat1 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 7:14 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 What ever happened to the starter pack of 3 car idea? If ammo is a problem then hand out a little more to start? Heck we don't even know if it doesn't already work since it wasn't in the beta ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Sep 14, 2011, 8:02 pm

d0dger an0maly Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,492 Joined: Jan 24, 2010 At this point I have serviceable gatling guns, rocket launchers, micromissle launchers, CGLs, MMGs,HMGs, and maybe some others... But the only ammo I have any or more then 1 clip for is for MG's. If I were reloading two MGs for every scout, I wouldn't have any MG ammo by now... That's why I keep using the loaners, free ammo. But I'd be dead in the water without them. Since you're generally going to use 2 weapons and one or most of a full clip of ammo per weapon in any combat... we'd have to average looting 2 clips per vehicle per combat. I've been doing a lot of town events to try and get ammo there but mostly receive food. ......................... vet wv combat1 combatL1 paintladder pvp5 sssc deathrceL1 pvp4 zom race1 semiprocombat deathrce1 raceL1 pvp3 pvp2 ww pvp1 paintball santa2 gwped4,16,10 Posted Sep 14, 2011, 8:53 pm Last edited Sep 14, 2011, 8:58 pm by d0dger

BWGunner DriveByRomance Autodueller Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 413 Joined: Mar 22, 2008 I think this is the right idea, the wrong problem. Rentals are a problem because rewards are totally out of scale to the "regular" game. Events only yield food and water, scouting is highly dependent on machanics, and ammo is scarce. The problem is that event rewards are too small, and not diverse enough. This appears to be pushing player trade, but the trading systems suck and don't encourage easy barter, they require a lot of messaging. I likely won't trade, I'll keep using rentals and doing events to avoid all the above issues. So are we addressing the disease, or the symptoms? ......................... vet wv cont Posted Sep 15, 2011, 6:09 am Last edited Sep 15, 2011, 6:10 am by BWGunner

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 There should be basic missions a scav player can do for supplies and the rental cars are offered as a choice to be used in the mission. Complete the mission, get your choice of X reward from a basic list of food, water, ammo and on harder missions a few weapons. You'd always get to keep any loot from doing the mission. This is what the newer scav player should be doing until they can go at it on their own. This idea of doing tons of town events or joining leagues to go against npcs or regular dw players for supplies is a far cry from what scavenger was supposed to be about. If there are more town events done in scav than scouts done in sav, then there is an issue with scavenger that needs to be addressed. From my viewpoint Scavenger has already lost its way right out of the gate. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Sep 15, 2011, 6:52 am Last edited Sep 15, 2011, 7:14 am by Lord Foul

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Lord Foul said: There should be basic missions a scav player can do for supplies and the rental cars are offered as a choice to be used in the mission. Complete the mission, get your choice of X reward from a basic list of food, water, ammo and on harder missions a few weapons. You'd always get to keep any loot from doing the mission. This is what the newer scav player should be doing until they can go at it on their own. Good idea. First missions could be escorts of convoys toward Elmsfield or security missions around Somerset. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Sep 15, 2011, 6:58 am

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Certainly RP wise it makes no sense to have an endless stream of rentals, but as others have pointed out there are plenty of reasons to at least keep this capability in place. Of course, players are going to keep using the facility when it amounts to free ammo as much as anything else. Not so sure that an increase in potential ammo looting is the best solution necessarily (oh lookeee some Paint Spray ammo). Unless you're particularly lucky with your loot, it can be some time before you have a scout worthy chassis, not so much due to chassis damage (though this is a factor) but to the generally crappy state of loot engines. It is really quite hard to convince yourself to take that 2l Chevalier out with C armour and an engine that barely gets it to 40 on a downhill slope with a following wind when you can have a rental car that will at least allow you to climb hills and all sorts of fancy stuff like that. I don't really see a way around that, apart from perhaps including a couple of reasonable engines in the starter pack (and it works fine as it is if rentals remain relatively easily available). To help wean us off the teat of rentals I would suggest the following. 1. To address the ammo situation, perhaps give the players a capability to convert scrap to mg magazines. I know this is not entirely scavvy for want of a better expression, but you can RP it how you like. What it does do is give players a means of continuing to scout with basic weapons and their own chassis when they fail to loot that crucial ammo (and all players should at a fairly early point have access to an MG or two). 2. Put a scrap cost to hiring a rental, let's say 3 or 4 scrap. I'm not overly fond of putting a deposit system on them as I can see that actually making it harder for those in need of a rental being able to take one out in the first place (though other players could well help out here I suppose - I wouldn't like to bet someone's fun on it). 3. Seems obvious that some players just cannot help but take the easy route regarding rentals and their abandonment/scrapping. I am deeply in favour of the 'pound of flesh' option. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Sep 15, 2011, 9:12 am Last edited Sep 15, 2011, 9:14 am by *Ninesticks*

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 *Ninesticks* said: 1. To address the ammo situation, perhaps give the players a capability to convert scrap to mg magazines. I know this is not entirely scavvy for want of a better expression, but you can RP it how you like. What it does do is give players a means of continuing to scout with basic weapons and their own chassis when they fail to loot that crucial ammo (and all players should at a fairly early point have access to an MG or two). What's missing is gunpowder, a semi-comon commodity that takes little bulk, then the RP side would be perfect, just need to decide what the ammo cost of scrap metal and gunpowder, as well as mec rating to build things more complicated than bullets ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Sep 15, 2011, 10:32 am Last edited Sep 15, 2011, 10:33 am by *Tinker*

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