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Paint changes
*Bastille*
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Just noticed you got in there while I was typing Sere.... smoke and paint may be a bit samo samo now, I kinda agree on principle... practice is another matter.

Only tried PGs a couple of times since the change, seems the stress at seeing my apache or a single mg on my apache was worth more to negative to hit modifier than the paint. Range was pretty close though.

Paint sprays

I tried lots of different Paint spray cars in last years SCL to some success (lots of CR for a couple of paint sprays that are hard to use). When they worked, they worked really well; just enough time to clog weapons, allowing the small SCL squad to do some work (reduced by nearly 1/3rd CR due to a car dedicated to painting). Now, to charge in under gun fire just to blur the windshield a bit... theres easier ways. I had most success with a voy with mmg and PS both sides, reduced armour.

I can still see a use for PS in this format, just limited. Extending the hang time might help, then running a line of paint to block a flank or line for a few turns is possible. Beats zipping around crossing the paths of gunships to hopefully catch someone off guard.
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marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1

Posted Feb 2, 2011, 12:46 pm
*Splash*
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Don't forget to factor in one of the best parts about paint spray, old or new--a driver with no gunnery skill never misses! I'll probably keep them in my cars, as worthless as they now are; it gives my driver something to do besides shift gears.
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vet wv pvp5 e2g pvp2 sssc combatL1 marshal1,1,0

Posted Feb 2, 2011, 1:04 pm Last edited Feb 2, 2011, 2:14 pm by Splash
phax
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Boo!!! Now my camp production stockpile from the last two weeks or so is worthless. :S
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vet wv

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 3:11 am
*Bastille*
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Thats a bit of a suck really, 2 weeks of production for nothing :stare:
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marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 3:22 am
phax
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Meh, I'll get over it. They really were way over-powered. :P
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vet wv

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 4:08 am
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Though, I do say this calls for more ballistic weaponry. Seriously. Something between a CGL and a MM. Eww, or a FOJ hurling ballistic weapon would be cool. Anything to make my Ballistics guys interesting again. :)
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vet wv

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 4:12 am
*goat starer*
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who actually asked for this change to paint?
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Posted Feb 3, 2011, 9:19 am
*Bastille*
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It was those nasty Vault dwellers, musta been! lets shoot em... oh wait.. I might rethink that.


FOJ bombs would be nice, molotovs are most useful
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marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 9:24 am
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goat starer said:
who actually asked for this change to paint?


Great question, it seems to be some inertia from the PvP issues bleeding into the rest of the game.

My two cents.  Should have just made paint stop a car for firing for one turn per hit, period.  Increase in the Cr is fine as far as it goes.  But I find it odd that both the CR is increased and the effects are diminished.
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vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 1:55 pm
*Ninesticks*
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Interesting, but you don't find it odd that a Bulk 30 CR 8 weapon could remove any vehicle from the fight far more effectively than say a Bulk 200 CR 102 weapon?
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Posted Feb 3, 2011, 2:45 pm
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But can it any more? If I understand correctly, a single round of paint doesn't remove a vehicle from combat as it did before, it merely reduces its effectiveness not unlike a 'topically applied' smoke screen, but paint is cumulative.

Paint used to remove vehicles--- quite well--- from combat by making them completely unable to engage in offensive or defensive weapons fire. Now it just makes that fire a little less effective, which is a completely different thing.
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vet wv

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 3:05 pm
*Ninesticks*
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Isn't that the point Kornkob?
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vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 3:24 pm
Kornkob The Dude
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Maybe I misunderstood your point then. Sounds like we're on the same side of that discussion.

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vet wv

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 3:40 pm
JS
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*Ninesticks* said:
Interesting, but you don't find it odd that a Bulk 30 CR 8 weapon could remove any vehicle from the fight far more effectively than say a Bulk 200 CR 102 weapon?


Then perhaps we just had a CR problem. 
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vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 5:41 pm
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No. We had a weapon design problem. The new paint is far more balanced than the old paint. The amount of CR a paint gun would have to be to justify being able to disable any vehicle in the game would just be stupid.
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vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 7:40 pm
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Serephe said:
No. We had a weapon design problem. The new paint is far more balanced than the old paint. The amount of CR a paint gun would have to be to justify being able to disable any vehicle in the game would just be stupid.


Oh?  Were you losing cars and people to paint guns in the wild?  I doubt it.  Which leaves us with the PvP question.  People did not like paints effects, It had little to nothing to do with an imbalance.  If it was as powerful as you say, and the CR was as high as a TG, then no one would put it on a vehicle.  Because it would draw too many enemies.  Somewhere between what it was and your "stupid" CR is where the answer lies.
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vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 7:45 pm
*Ninesticks*
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For me, it has everything to do with imbalance regardless of the type of fight. Unless you are suggesting that it is different in some material way, that the change is fairer in regards to PvP than PvE (or vice versa)?

Upping the CR alone isn't some magical way of making a weapon more balanced.

After seeing the discussions previous to this change I came to the opinion that being able to entirely nullify a car for one or more turns by the use of one shot by one weapon is entirely unbalanced.

I look forward to arguments to the contrary, and as always remain open to being convinced otherwise.
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Posted Feb 3, 2011, 8:13 pm
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Serephe said:
No. We had a weapon design problem. The new paint is far more balanced than the old paint. The amount of CR a paint gun would have to be to justify being able to disable any vehicle in the game would just be stupid.


this is a complete fallacy... paint did not disable a car. it temporarily affected its performance.

As the ONLY AI weapon vet players were afraid of it was completely balanced... Its quite rare.. its not like the AI turns up in a massive bunch of paint cars with low CR. Its just nonsense.
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Posted Feb 3, 2011, 8:27 pm
Kornkob The Dude
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goat starer said:
this is a complete fallacy... paint did not disable a car. it temporarily affected its performance.


While I'm not sure that the changes were the wrong thing to do, I do question this statement.  In my experience a vehicle with disabled weapons is effectively disabled in most situations (rams and 'running away' being the 2 I can think of). 

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vet wv

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 8:46 pm
Serephe
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JS said:
Oh?  Were you losing cars and people to paint guns in the wild?  I doubt it.  Which leaves us with the PvP question.  People did not like paints effects, It had little to nothing to do with an imbalance.  If it was as powerful as you say, and the CR was as high as a TG, then no one would put it on a vehicle.  Because it would draw too many enemies.  Somewhere between what it was and your "stupid" CR is where the answer lies.


No, I wasn't losing cars to paint, though a couple times I took quite a bit more damage than I would have otherwise. Paint was making it ridiculously easy to the point where I was able to run carrier vans unescorted in Badlands without a scout. Because a single paint gun can easily stop a large number of pirates from shooting at you when used even moderately well.


goat starer said:
this is a complete fallacy... paint did not disable a car. it temporarily affected its performance.

As the ONLY AI weapon vet players were afraid of it was completely balanced... Its quite rare.. its not like the AI turns up in a massive bunch of paint cars with low CR. Its just nonsense.


A car without active weapons is effectively disabled.

I wasn't scared of paint, though it was an irritant to be sure. I have no problem with the AI jamming my guns, I could really care less. I'm more worried about its use in players hands vs both the AI and other players.

Kornkob The Dude said:

While I'm not sure that the changes were the wrong thing to do, I do question this statement.  In my experience a vehicle with disabled weapons is effectively disabled in most situations (rams and 'running away' being the 2 I can think of). 


Yep. And the AI is quite terrible at both of those things.
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vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0

Posted Feb 3, 2011, 9:00 pm Last edited Feb 3, 2011, 9:01 pm by Serephe
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