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DW, New Players & Somerset

Deathangels Shadow deathys Strikers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Contributors Posts: 658 Joined: Jul 24, 2007 *Marc5iver* said: If you are even somewhat serious about people suggesting hunting Butane, that is silly. It was a reference to a specific single incident where several vets (and a few non-vets) decided to go out and hunt Butane with no scout to deliberately try to get as bad a spawn as they could... I was there, and managed to actually escape relatively unscathed, but the total losses from some of the other folks in that fight were incredible.  One guy lost his first (and only) BPU, etc., etc. I knew it wasn't the best plan, so I took a car that I wouldn't miss if I lost it, and even so was ready to run if things got too ugly. ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 2, 2010, 12:48 am Last edited Sep 2, 2010, 12:49 am by Deathangels Shadow

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Armisius said: My two cents. I love this game too. I've been playing non-stop since about January of this year, but I cannot get any of my friends to try it. One guy tried and 2 of his 4 gangers now languish in Firelight. So he restarted a new gang, his gang leader snapped her neck in a race. He quit. I'm trying to lure him back. ... Please don't, really don't like that type of player in general.  It's why games these days are about save checkpoint and autoaiming, never mind turnbased being a anathema.  Let him play what he likes, he's just not going to like this game. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 1:46 am

Jet-A1 Critical Mach Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: Aug 1, 2010 Marc5iver Quote: If you are even somewhat serious about people suggesting hunting Butane, that is silly. If you feel the game is too hard you should be hunting nothing except "Preferably intercept weaker NPC pirates" -------------------------------------------------- I've hunted weakest NPC and still hit Butane and FLMH. To put it into perspective yesterday on travels I had 5 from 6 encounters with butane alone. I know they aren't scouts but for a new player it is a very high percentage. (SS-GW run, Scouts of 30+). If I was scouting toward GW it would have been a horrid days play. -------------------------------------------------- ISHOULDCOCO Quote: but the sub compact thing is a false economy These chassis will get the characters killed. -------------------------------------------------- It will get characters killed against what enemy vehicles? In my experiment in a previous thread I did just that. I used 2 subcompacts on a scout against a muscle car and a Pickup (Butane). I lost one ganger in the encounter but kept the vehicle. I'm not the most experienced player but I'm not a total noob either and it was a hard fight. If the fight was matched against vehicles suited to subcompact scouting its not going to be any worse than normal but would be more forgiving for making a mistake when learning or if something doesn't go as planned due to low skilled gangers. Plus I've heard of more ganger deaths just from racing alone for new players. -------------------------------------------------- And for Bastiel, I dont have the Vet badge as I restarted my gang and got into wilderness scouts straight up. A horrendous solo scout pretty much decimated me and I took that opportunity to start over (using lessons learnt previously) as it was nearing the end of my sub (Jet-A1 = Ballistix if you don't know already). I like DW as a game and a community and I'm not making the suggestions just for change sake. I honestly think that as it presently stands there is room for improvement in the area of new players and how they start out. It doesn't make the game easier in my view just more accessible and also more forgiving initially for minor mistakes. A rare spawn of a sedan with a HMG or RL is going to be just as unforgiving as if a Texan Strongarm spawns against a sedan scout. <Inflammatory Comment Removed by Author> But as I mentioned in my other posting on the subject Sam can take the suggestions as he sees fit and do with them as he likes. ......................... wv vet Posted Sep 2, 2010, 1:47 am Last edited Sep 2, 2010, 1:50 am by Jet-A1

Armisius Quiksilver Sunday Driver Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: Oct 13, 2009 [quote] Armisius said: My two cents. I love this game too. I've been playing non-stop since about January of this year, but I cannot get any of my friends to try it. One guy tried and 2 of his 4 gangers now languish in Firelight. So he restarted a new gang, his gang leader snapped her neck in a race. He quit. I'm trying to lure him back. ... Please don't, really don't like that type of player in general. It's why games these days are about save checkpoint and autoaiming, never mind turnbased being a anathema. Let him play what he likes, he's just not going to like this game. [/quote] Actually he is more of a wargamer than I am and normally plays complex boardgames. He is trying to get me into light Wargames like War of the Ring etc. Please don't be so quick to judge. Darkwind can be pretty brutal at first and I've hung around for a long time. ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 2, 2010, 2:30 am Last edited Sep 2, 2010, 9:26 am by *Ninesticks*

Armisius Quiksilver Sunday Driver Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: Oct 13, 2009 and I obviously haven't figured out how to quote people yet. Sorry. I'm not sure what I'm missing. ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 2, 2010, 2:31 am

*Dark Tempest* The Black Legion Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,049 Joined: Jan 27, 2010 I tried to fix it.. Not sure why that didn't work. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 3:45 am

*Marc5iver* 5ive Crew Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,354 Joined: Oct 10, 2008 Armisius said: and I obviously haven't figured out how to quote people yet. Sorry. I'm not sure what I'm missing. Just click quote in the message from the person you want to quote ......................... vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 5:53 am

Groovelle Criminal Underworld Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 758 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Quote: I hear your points but I must mention again, the beauty of this game for me when I started was the hardship.  I had a few wins, and quite a few losses. The wins were hard fought, often ending with no ammo and lots of ramming and hiding weak armour and many a death. These are Badlands! And to me the whole point of the game.  I did find it really hard at first, sometimes frustratingly so, but it makes it that much more rewarding when you get the feeling you are getting somewhere. -Bastiel I think most of the players here, probably along with Sam, don't want an easier game and don't want the game made easier and easier over a course of time to pander to goal of more subscriptons. I for one believe that exact paradigm has ruined every MMO I've ever played.  As it is I do really miss the days when the game was REALLY hard for me, my n00b days. Look at Latte, he basically starts over (almost anyway). It's going to happen to us all anyway thanks to ganger aging. I'm somewhat looking forward to it....if things don't get too carebearish. -d0dger /me blows the dust off his account. Back when I first started and was learning things like "never get out of the car" and "don't slow down in front of things you can't kill" Dark-Wind was, effectively, perfect.  It was a perfect game. It told the story of the Load Runners - a group of young people who were deadlocked with the rest of the world giving everything they had, even their lives, in the fight for survival.  The went out to claim the burning wreckage of those who would deny them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in Evan.  Sometimes everybody came home.  Sometimes no one did.  And this is what made it great.  I had no idea if any of the gangers, some of which I had a great deal of attachment to, would even exist the next day.  No other game makes things this real.  None. And the thing is - it makes sense.  If an 18 year old driver and a 19 year old gunner, both wet behind the ears, could come off the street and be able to go toe to toe with battle-hardened pirates, it wouldn't make sense.  It'd be like any other game. The actual reason I stopped playing is because, for the Load Runners, the game no longer made sense.  It was about the time I made my first million when I hit the first, and only, logical speedbump which diverted me from the Dark-Wind road.  The Load Runners were experienced enough and had the right equipment to make another million.  And another.  At some point, why do they go back out?  They wouldn't.  They'd go out, knock over a few more traders, and quit.  They'd retire.  I couldn't, in keeping with the Load Runners as a living, breathing crew, keep sending them out to die for accumulated wealth.  Now I'm in vacation mode. If we get back to game changes I can only think of a handful that would bring me back for good.  One - make money harder to get in Somerset, especially for vets, Two - give vets the option to pay exorbitant prices to maintain the roads around the city they're in, or Three - crank up the difficulty in the southern cities and remove the high rate of return attacks (we don't all have time to fight two tough battles in one day).  Combining the first and second might bring me back forever.  The third would hold my interest for a few months In conclusion, removing the challenge that is Dark-Wind's initiation, and that's really what those first few months are, would essentially kill the very essence that makes Dark-Wind so unique. Edit: And really, the best way to retain those players who've "made it" would be gang retirement - an option to retire the entire gang once they've accumulated enough wealth - keeping it fresh for those already playing. ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 5:56 am Last edited Sep 2, 2010, 7:01 am by Groovelle

upgrayedd -=[Death Dealers]=- Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 513 Joined: Feb 28, 2010 Marrkos said: IMO, that's not a bad thing. On the other hand, the Desert Hyenas were flagged as 'New Player Fodder', so on some level the curve has been shallowed a bit already. Perhaps making them targetable for longer would alleviate some of the troubles? Or perhaps they should be the only gang a new player encounters? (Can honestly say I don't know the mechanics of the DH-New Player setup, as it was put in long after I was eligible) I was never able to scout for them. By the first time I attempted to do a scout they were no longer targetable. ......................... vet wv gwped Posted Sep 2, 2010, 6:38 am

*Wolfsbane* Arbiters Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,038 Joined: Oct 9, 2009 I really don't like the desert hyenas. I think they encourage people to solo too early - that's what got most of my original gang killed. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 cont Posted Sep 2, 2010, 9:02 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 This is a very interesting thread, which proves as usual that there are so many opinions (all valid, but often so different!) It's not possible to please everyone, of course. In general terms, joel and others are right -- I don't want to water the game down so that it becomes like every other MMO. I am convinced (as I was when first dreaming up the game) that real risk, and perma-death, are a critical aspect of the game. I also know that there is a very real issue whereby some new players leave the game thru frustration. It's not easy to balance these things.. but there are some nice ideas in here. A proper set of 'newbie narrative missions' that provide decent rewards is a good idea. A wilderness tutorial is a good idea too (though I'd need some help.. maybe we could brainstorm a script for this?) I also know that some (not all) long-term players get bored when it gets too easy to earn money and equipment. One thing that would really help this is to make hardware wear out faster. I.e. substantially higher perma-damage rates, and even (rarely) small amounts of perma-damage simply thru use. But I fear being lynched if I implement these... ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 9:25 am Last edited Sep 2, 2010, 9:26 am by *sam*

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Ok, here we go, another Essay from me Jet-A1 said: (Jet-A1 = Ballistix if you don't know already). I didn't know this actually (Ballz you sly dog!! ). I mean absolutely no offence by any comments, just a few suggestions on what I had noticed at a glance. Maybe theres some middle ground here. Lots of people seem to like the game for the hardship, and others have tried failed and become put off. I have been close to chucking the computer at the wall many a time thanks to the wind lol. I was really struggling for money when I started and Finally Coco loaded me with 300K for an event I was putting on. I didn't end up running the event as everything was going wrong with it ( I got like 3 people to attend the preliminaries), and that cash helped me get on my feet even though I never spent a dime of it, just knowing I had that bit more security if anything went wrong, helped. Then I scouted a bit with Goat, and he was most generous with gear and advice, and I've wanted to pay him back ever since (not sure thats possible ). And many others gave me a helping hand along the way(too many to name you all). So I must say, I didn't get through the trenches solely on my own, and the fact I had played car wars REALLY helped, if not for the similarities, the idea I could finally play it on a computer kept me going through the hard times. Maybe there could be some different, less dangerous combat cars for the arena. just tracer rounds for points but no damage, paint rifles for cars or something. The idea of less chance of Rocket ships for newer players seems good to, but I already though stuff like this was in place, or it seemed to me anyway. Like 5iver, I would only take the weaker NPCs option when scouting for a long time. Only now after a year of playing do I pick 900 fame gangs out of BL, and I still fear being served hard (the reason I take em on) UpG said: I was never able to scout for them. By the first time I attempted to do a scout they were no longer targetable. Not sure if these guys are ever targetable, I haven't faced them for a long time, but I always saw the reason for them being around was to provide some easier pickings for newer players. I got breached by a Marauder (desert Hyenas) in my fav apache the first time I took it out solo against these guys, and I had to run like hell. I had a rear Gat, made it easier. Side Note: There are many things you can do to make the game easier on yourself. Keeping down CR is one, Edgerunners put me onto another great tactic; Just run until there is only one car left (all other cars escape at 500m) and then take that last car. Gives you the odds against them. The only time this failed for me when using an apache was in the big open sand dunes south of Somerset where the heavy beast couldn't get away from smaller faster cars. I even used these tactics down in BL using a polt. I think there are options there to have an easy time for a newer or casual player they just may not be that easy to find, although I see its easy to get caught up in what the big boys are doing. Maybe some way of making these more obvious to newer players would help without changing the mechanics to effect those looking for the hardened challenge they can't find in other games that walk you through from day one. I'm all for more people enjoying this awesome game and still feel like they have some independence (rather relying on piggy backing with others), and not feeling they want to walk away. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 9:38 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Sam said: A proper set of 'newbie narrative missions' that provide decent rewards is a good idea. A wilderness tutorial is a good idea too (though I'd need some help.. maybe we could brainstorm a script for this?) I know the 3 narrative missions that were around when I started really helped me with ideas, and allowed me some independence. A few ideas for wilderness tutorial NMs: Car setups and why some things won't work too well How to run away when its getting nasty How to dogfight or fight on the move Could the AI be tweaked for TAC to make this a fun place for those finding the full game rules a little difficult. You can kill stuff all day without any fear of death yourself, and it won't effect the big game over all? ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 9:47 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *sam* said: I also know that there is a very real issue whereby some new players leave the game thru frustration. Sam... I think the common factor with people leaving early on in their DW careers is failure to engage in the social apects of the game. Players who have mentoring and support from Vets do well... players who dont struggle more. I think the solution to this is more about revising the Marshalling system than changing anything in game. (briefly 2 types of marshal, forum/lobby moderators and game marshals. new players get given one of the marshals as a buddy at subscription (matched by timezone). some other stuff.. blah blah blah) PS ... faster wear out and perma ... definately!! but you have to introduce the SS museum if you are doing this  ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 10:32 am

Dreamthief Fast and Deadly Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 274 Joined: Dec 18, 2009 A wilderness tutorial would be great, make it emphasise the following... 1. Use terrain. To block incoming fire so you can position for an attack on a facing with no or few guns. Get top shots. Try and get the opponent tangled in buildings etc to split them up. Use steep hills (if you have vehicles with decent engines, no fatboy SUVs) to split the enemy as they will climb at different rates. 2. Smart gunnery. If your gunners are poor then don't sit out in the open, try and lure the enemy into a terrain feature that means he can't shoot you to pieces before you can return fire effectively. ie hide in hills or behind buildings. Focus all fire on 1 vehicle at a time to force a demo as fast as possible. Try and get attacks on side/rear armour as it frequently won't have as much armour, or as many weapons as the front. 3. Basic tactics. If you are out-numbered, use a fast car to try and draw off a few of the enemy and lead them on a wild goose chase while the rest of the group deals with the now much reduced main force. If it's a tough fight and you get a chance to "red" a couple of enemy..go for it. The morale of the rest of the enemy force will take a hit. Whack the missile boats first, especially if they are relatively light like Scorpions. Look at the "blue", things that are useful are "massive concussion" and "damaged weapons"...these mean that the opponent's ability to hurt you is much reduced. "engine destroyed" means they won't be chasing you. Print out the car list from the Wiki and keep it beside you for reference. What weapons does a car have and how many crew are vital knowledge...as is the engine size if you decide to try and split them up. If you are facing a large group of enemies and have managed to damage/demo some of them, move away from that area if you can to fight the rest of the group. You won't be taking fire from immobilised demo cars, which hurts just as much as non-demo fire Anyway...just a few things taht might help new players ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 2, 2010, 10:49 am Last edited Sep 2, 2010, 10:51 am by Dreamthief

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 goat starer said: *sam* said: I also know that there is a very real issue whereby some new players leave the game thru frustration. Sam... I think the common factor with people leaving early on in their DW careers is failure to engage in the social apects of the game. Players who have mentoring and support from Vets do well... players who dont struggle more. I think the solution to this is more about revising the Marshalling system than changing anything in game. (briefly 2 types of marshal, forum/lobby moderators and game marshals. new players get given one of the marshals as a buddy at subscription (matched by timezone). some other stuff.. blah blah blah) PS ... faster wear out and perma ... definately!! but you have to introduce the SS museum if you are doing this  Yeah, definitely Goat. I was very timid at first, and not being used to chat rooms found the lobby a scary place. Getting in touch with other players really helped. I think your Marshal suggestion is really cool and wouldn't effect the game over all. My 5Lv8s last about.... 1 event... so no more perma damage for my guys, do what ya want for everyone else, but I want a special "Bastilles v8's last forever clause"  ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 11:18 am

*Wolfsbane* Arbiters Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,038 Joined: Oct 9, 2009 I'm all in favour of more throughput. Let stuff wear out, and make new stuff a bit easier to get. AI cars should be a bit beaten up too - I would expect a mutant gang to have rusty, badly-maintained gear. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 cont Posted Sep 2, 2010, 11:25 am

Dreamthief Fast and Deadly Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 274 Joined: Dec 18, 2009 *Wolfsbane* said: I'm all in favour of more throughput.  Let stuff wear out, and make new stuff a bit easier to get.  AI cars should be a bit beaten up too - I would expect a mutant gang to have rusty, badly-maintained gear. .....and slimy tentacles aren't the best for repairs!  ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 2, 2010, 11:31 am Last edited Sep 2, 2010, 11:32 am by Dreamthief

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 ohhhh, I dunno. Gasket goo is always at hand. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Sep 2, 2010, 11:39 am

johnny go rancid Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,438 Joined: Mar 24, 2010 a proper wildernes tutorial wuld be ace! ......................... vet wv Posted Sep 2, 2010, 1:20 pm

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