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Stress rules
FireFly
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Might I remind you the commitment it takes to do megas in the first place gro...?

First, the equipment costs, now, my squad is the extreme example, with Tankers, MH's, Lorries Fire/Trashtrucks, It's really way to expensive for its own good, but its as good as it gets really, now, if we are to value all the gear put into this, with weapons, it would come to abuout...

TT/Tanker = 500k - 8
Motorhome = 400k - 4
Firetruck = 6-9M - 1
Lorry - 200k - 2
Osprey = 200k - 2

Heavy Laser - 7-9M - 1
Laser - 1M - 1
Tank Guns = 1M - 8
Mounted Mortar = 1M - 14
Car cannon = 100-150k - (About) 50
Anti tank guns = 70k - 15
And some Unimportant weapons...


And this comes to about... somewhere between 55 - 70 mil worth of gear on the open market, not counting engines...

Now dont get me wrong, This is not to brag, I speny many millions building this squad, given, but thats not the major issue, the major issue is that I spent several MONTHS building up to this, it has been my goal in this game since I did my first solo scouts, you can go ask TEC or slacker, I used to never shut up about it, as you said yourself before Gro, building my own little "army".

Now, after spending all those months, not counting the first two, thats 8 subscribed months , scouting, training my ganger's, slowly building up, and now, after all that time spent in the game, I can finally say, I have the largest solo-scouting squad in the game.

Now, a couple of days after I finally get it up and running, that ultimate goal of mine, you get to hear that this way of scouting just got completely nerfed, that this way of scouting is "unfair"?

How in the world is it unfair that the enemy demos after I kill Half their whole gang within 15 turns? After all that money and time spent to build the damned squad, it is nothing but fair, I am simply getting back for all the time I spent, thats how I feel about it, care to argue against that gro?
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Posted May 19, 2010, 9:11 am
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well you do have a point, but the whole game is right now geared to combat rating matching so this change just makes sense in that light. there should be some other kind of reward for big scout, like tons of scraps or higher bounties or something - but until the game pops gangers and cars out of nothing for npc to balance your forces, going big will never provide you any kind of benefit.

and it's not like mike megas were that profitable all by themselves, if we were to take mike words for it.
a quick search on the forums gives out that he makes 50k a pop. the 5mil worth lorry he got busted some day ago will eat up all the proceedings of the next *one thousand* scouts.
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vet wv

Posted May 19, 2010, 9:20 am
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FF- linear addition to stress when guys in your team get injured wasn't correct - it can't be. It takes no account for safety in numbers. That's why the cascading demos were out of whack. And yes, taking advantage of this was somewhat of an exploit, IMO.

I have however just tweaked the calcs a bit so that the 'safety in numbers' factor is less.

BTW this only applies to certain types of stress, when guys in a different car get injured/killed. There wasn't any change made when damage is actually happening to the car that a character is himself in.
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Posted May 19, 2010, 9:27 am
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But that is my main point, the old system actually made sense in a way...

If we are taking 1 turn to loosely be 1 second, and within 15 turns, I've killed 30-40% of their force, not demoralized, Killed, redded, muredered, blasted to bits, how can the "Safety in numbers" effect still go on, since they clearly aren't safe in numbers?

Ask yourself this, if you were in a battle, and you outnumber the enemy 2-1, yet just 15 seconds into the battle, 30-40% of your force is killed of, would you continue to fight?

Either way... if the enemy will keep on fighting until you breach almost every single one of them, then hell, I'll make sure to kill every single one of them, but when I do, can you remove the gang from the game or something, because I'll make damned sure there will not be anything left...
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Posted May 19, 2010, 9:36 am
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Why does it make sense for big scouts but not for small ones? I would have thought that wiping out half the AI should have a similar effect no matter how many of them there are. Why do you think you should get a big pile of free stuff just because you're a rich player?
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Posted May 19, 2010, 9:49 am
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Wolfsbane said:
Why do you think you should get a big pile of free stuff just because you're a rich player?


because under the assumption of having each encounter balanced to your force you'll need a reward proportional to your investment.

a close quarter 4vs4 combat net you almost 4 pristine car in SS, while the fact that they get spread out and outnumber you and demoed continues to fight until their car is molten metal is currently reducing too much the profitability of high investments
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vet wv

Posted May 19, 2010, 9:54 am
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Quote:
Why does it make sense for big scouts but not for small ones?"  I would have thought that wiping out half the AI should have a similar effect no matter how many of them there are.
Now now, thats pretty basic psycology actually, ever heard the saying, "The bigger the are, the harder they fall?

Quote:
Why do you think you should get a big pile of free stuff just because you're a rich player?
Free stuff, can I reefer to that other post I made about how I made many great, pretty huge "Advance payments"?

LoSboccacc said:
-
Thank you for seeing the bigger picture here, in smaller scouts, you can fire on a car until it demoed, then move on to the remaining weakened cars, you usually have enough armor in a dogfight to let those 2 demoed cars live until you take the other 2 down, its not hard to do.

When up against 35 cars however, not a flying chance in hell, whatever car is closest to you, and pointing your way, you either kill it, or you lose armor quickly, those are the only two options you get, you cant ease fire on targets if you want you squad to live for long.

These demo cascades... they are the sole reason mega's can even collect a good amount of loot...
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Posted May 19, 2010, 9:57 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 10:02 am by FireFly
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Im sorry FF this again just seems like you bleating, and i agree with Sam it just smells of ' exploit' not the hidden kind, but one that many people join in on, but all the same something that needed to be addressed.
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Posted May 19, 2010, 10:07 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 10:10 am by *Grograt*
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*sam* said:
edit: I might get a few NPCs hooked on zerk, too.  B)


Hehe

S210807 against FLMHs

it works, too bad we don't get the "growl" from vehicles

had 2 gangsters, each in different cars shooting me from 200+ meters

was kinda worried they had uber gunners but they all missed

Also a beaster turned and escaped

edit: looking at the kill roster i found none that had addiction
also their skills seemed to be a bit more randomly spread, but not by much
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Posted May 19, 2010, 10:31 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 10:36 am by *Tinker*
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I had a few flamer cars try to flame me from 150m away. Was hilarious as I laughed at their futile attempts.
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Posted May 19, 2010, 10:35 am
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*Grograt* said:
Im sorry FF this again just seems like you bleating, and i agree with Sam it just smells of ' exploit' not the hidden kind, but one that many people join in on, but all the same something that needed to be addressed.
Alright then, you clever person, suggest how we make the mega scouter's have profits, I think I already made it pretty clear that the demo cascades are pretty much the sole reason.
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Posted May 19, 2010, 10:43 am
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why do you need a profit, you just stated your kit is worth 70 million.

When others scout Badlands and Texan is it for profit, or just challenge and the chance of rare loot.

you want your cake and you want to eat it as well.

Also have you not read that Sam has changed this already and will change it again if it is still a major problem !!!!
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Posted May 19, 2010, 10:46 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 10:49 am by *Grograt*
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I frankly don't give a damned about how much all of that is worth, all I give a darned about is that I can have fun using it, and make it worth its money.

So, don't avoid the question Gro, how do we remove the demo cascades, and yet keep the ability for the megascouters to go with profits and give them the ability to earn back what they spent on their groups to begin with?

Whats the point of having a cake and then not eat it, that's why you make cakes.
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Posted May 19, 2010, 10:51 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 10:52 am by FireFly
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*sam* said:
FF- linear addition to stress when guys in your team get injured wasn't correct - it can't be. It takes no account for safety in numbers. That's why the cascading demos were out of whack. And yes, taking advantage of this was somewhat of an exploit, IMO.

I have however just tweaked the calcs a bit so that the 'safety in numbers' factor is less.

BTW this only applies to certain types of stress, when guys in a different car get injured/killed. There wasn't any change made when damage is actually happening to the car that a character is himself in.


*Grograt* said:


Also have you not read that Sam has changed this already and will change it again if it is still a major problem !!!!


Firefly....to be honest you are not reading but reacting again ... Sam will fix it, if it is a problem, if it is a problem to everyone, not a problem for one.
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Posted May 19, 2010, 10:54 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 10:57 am by *Grograt*
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Yes, I am reading what you are saying perfectly clear, and what you are saying is that it would be "tweaked" if it is a major problem for "The masses" well, the masses certainly don't do megas outside of SS.
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Posted May 19, 2010, 11:03 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 11:04 am by FireFly
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:rolleyes:
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Posted May 19, 2010, 11:16 am
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But you still avoided my question gro, how do we give the megasquads a fair chance at profits, or ability to loot?
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Posted May 19, 2010, 11:19 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 11:29 am by FireFly
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Define fair. If you use twice as many cars do you expect twice as much profit? More?

If you loot a single lorry or a CC that's as much profit as bringing home 5 or 6 mostly undamaged cars in SS.

The profit of my last half dozen scouts in Tex has been negative, because I haven't seen anything worth looting. I'm happy with it, because the scouts are fun, training is good and I can hope to grab a moray or a cutlass sooner or later. But is it fair?
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Posted May 19, 2010, 11:42 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 11:44 am by Wolfsbane
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Firefly said:
suggest how we make the mega scouter's have profits


This change has not made mega-scouting inherently any less profitable than regular scouting. In fact the 'safety in numbers' calculation is now non-linear so mega scouting still has a better chance of recovering pristine loot than regular scouting does.

Firefly said:
how do we remove the demo cascades ...


They haven't been removed, they have been scaled back so that they're not so easily exploited.

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Posted May 19, 2010, 11:56 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 11:59 am by *sam*





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