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Stress rules

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Just to let you know I'm tweaking a few of the stress rules - specifically those that aren't dealing with large numbers of characters well, which cause very large combats to turn into 'cascading demos' Even more specifically - there are a number of places where longterm stress is added to everyone on one side of the combat, such as when one of their members takes a big injury. This is currently a fixed number regardless of the size of the forces, therefore gets overwhelmed. I'm going to have these scale according to the size of the combat. edit: I might get a few NPCs hooked on zerk, too. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 18, 2010, 9:14 pm Last edited May 18, 2010, 9:17 pm by *sam*

*Wolfsbane* Arbiters Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,038 Joined: Oct 9, 2009 *sam* said: I might get a few NPCs hooked on zerk, too.  Heh heh heh. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 cont Posted May 18, 2010, 9:27 pm

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Can you clarify this a little bit, as in, how hard will it be to capture loot intact? For example, If I completely destroy 12/35 cars, can I expect the rest to give up, that would be killing about 24 enemy chars, and the rest would be under heavy mortar fire? ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted May 18, 2010, 9:39 pm

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 No clarification needed on this one surely, just experimentation - this definitely needs to be a hidden number. Sam said: edit: I might get a few NPCs hooked on zerk, too. Go on, go on, go on! ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted May 18, 2010, 9:46 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 FireFly said: Can you clarify this a little bit, as in, how hard will it be to capture loot intact? For example, If I completely destroy 12/35 cars, can I expect the rest to give up, that would be killing about 24 enemy chars, and the rest would be under heavy mortar fire? It's hard to say exactly, FF. The problem, as I said, was because of the linear way in which some long-term stress effects were being applied. The large amounts of pristine loot from large scouts was disproportionate to risk/skill. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 18, 2010, 9:54 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 RE zerk: this is something that I'm making certain NPC gangs to be much more predisposed to than others. Obviously the dopeheads, (and to a lesser extent the mutants), will be the heaviest users. But generally those gangs described as crazy or extreme will be inclined towards zerk. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 18, 2010, 9:55 pm

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Are they going to be proper zerkers or just simulating some but not all of the effects? ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted May 18, 2010, 9:58 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Same effects as a player-character zerker yep.. right down to the growling (I assume the random drug-specific-chat does actually work?) ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 18, 2010, 10:06 pm

*Wolfsbane* Arbiters Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,038 Joined: Oct 9, 2009 Alcohol is the only one I've seen used in a scout (at one point every mechanic over 50 skill in my gang was at least a light user) and the "hic" chat certainly works. I have a zerker but he hasn't used it in combat yet. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 cont Posted May 18, 2010, 10:16 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 *sam* said: Same effects as a player-character zerker yep.. right down to the growling    (I assume the random drug-specific-chat does actually work?) growling? as in a text bubble above a players car saying "I"M A ZERK HEAD"? never seen that  ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted May 18, 2010, 10:17 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Sounds like it works, from what Wolfsbane says. Zerkers say "Growl!" occasionally. It's only seen when they're peds though. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 18, 2010, 10:23 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 sam... think its tweaked too much... nine and i just had a very long scout and return to demo everything.. i should really be in bed! ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted May 19, 2010, 12:44 am

Zephyr River City Gamblers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 551 Joined: Dec 12, 2009 FireFly said: Can you clarify this a little bit, as in, how hard will it be to capture loot intact? For example, If I completely destroy 12/35 cars, can I expect the rest to give up, that would be killing about 24 enemy chars, and the rest would be under heavy mortar fire? My guess is, that's exactly the kind of scenario Sam wants to prevent with this change.  While the "Mega-Scouts" are fun, it does feel a bit exploitative to take advantage of the "cascading demos" mechanic. Perhaps we can have NPCs try harder and more frequently to break off and escape when a battle is not going in their favor?  It would make chasers more useful in non-Trader caravan scouts.  ......................... vet wv Posted May 19, 2010, 1:56 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 2:00 am by Zephyr

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 I think the "cascading" is quite realistic. Panic is contagious as they say. If it is a tweak then I'm all for it. But just changing bravery such that we have to shoot more just because we are effective at killing the first to engage doesn't seem like the answer to me. Also, having demoed guys still charge in and engage is a problem as well. If demoed guys tried to get away I would not have an issue with makng fewer of them demo, or adjusting the cascade. But there should be some kind of cascade. They lose heart becasue they are losing their hearts... ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted May 19, 2010, 2:52 am

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 This is long overdue, in my "never does anything like a megascout" opinion. ......................... vet wv Posted May 19, 2010, 6:51 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 This is a really really bad idea...It's not the destruction of loot that worries me, I never had a problem with blowing thing up... its how extremely long these events will take... Then if cars start scattering in directions while the demoed and half dead cars continue fighting... please tell me, how is this "Fun"?Having to smash 33/35 vehicles to pieces, because one or two of them got stuck on a map like the pits, and the only way to reach them is trough all of the enemy cars, imagine that, just imagine it, its not not hard, but it would be painfully long. These Cascades are not unrealistic to begin with, tell me, how would you react if a much stronger, more heavily armed, and better hitting foe attacked you, your allies starting to drop left and right by the second, being swatted like flies, would you feel pretty confident? Either you change how a demoed car works... or thank you lots for messing the game up completely for anyone who likes larger scouts, this wont make anything a bigger challenge, it will simply serve to annoy.All that aside, yeah, it might have been a little easy to cause them. Bu I'm not to sure about that's entirely the case, let me direct you to this event here, S210147, I had to blast about 20 of their cars to bits, and the rest of the enemy cars were under heavy mortar fire, the enemy had a total KIA number of 35, now tell me, I'm going to have to do even more than that, you must be joking? Before you attack my post again, look at the numbers, !20! cars and !35! Dead gangers, that is more than half your average gang! No text, but you to show you how the last turn looked like ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted May 19, 2010, 7:12 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 7:35 am by FireFly

LoSboccacc Omnia vincit armor Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 523 Joined: Feb 23, 2010 having to burn everything to bit is quite a problem. also you'll have to make sure everyone is really dead because I've seen killed engine cars still shooting, while turtled. I suppose that we'll se a raise in price for flechette and shotguns! At least make destroyed cars leave some more scraps, so one can recoup operation costs. right now you get only tires and the standard chassis scraps, it would be nice if there would be a chance (mech skill based) of recovering scraps from destroyed weapons too. that would offset the costs of having to kill everything and everyone. ......................... vet wv Posted May 19, 2010, 8:06 am

*Wolfsbane* Arbiters Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,038 Joined: Oct 9, 2009 FF - when I scout with two or three cars, I generally need blue text on every single enemy to get them to demo. I've had scouts 3 against 7 where we destroyed 6 of the cars totally, and the last still wouldn't demo without us wrecking the engine and injuring all the crew. So yeah - welcome to what virtually everyone else in the game has been used to up until now. If your scouts take too long you could always take fewer cars, you know. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 cont Posted May 19, 2010, 8:16 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Wolfsbane said: FF - when I scout with two or three cars, I generally need blue text on every single enemy to get them to demo.  I've had scouts 3 against 7 where we destroyed 6 of the cars totally, and the last still wouldn't demo without us wrecking the engine and injuring all the crew.  So yeah - welcome to what virtually everyone else in the game has been used to up until now. If your scouts take too long you could always take fewer cars, you know. Wolf, this is not entierly true, we did a couple of scouts in SS yesterday, it was our 4 against 6, we trashed/murdered 4 of them, and then the last 2 demoed before getting breached, its not only in bigger scouts, hell, I've only had that uber squad for a couple of days now, done a total of 4 scouts with it. That, and I rather enjoy the smaller SS scouts, mostly because there, I just don't care about not wrecking stuff, or weather my stuff gets wrecked, I call SS scouts relaxation time. (And currently, they don't take all that long, I got trough those 4 scouts I've done in an average of 1 hour) ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted May 19, 2010, 8:39 am Last edited May 19, 2010, 8:40 am by FireFly

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 It is a change that is required, it may need tweaking and we know it will be modified. BUT it has been long coming that we needed better AI stress levels, having 60+% of a force surrender becuase they are scared gives for easy pickings for mega scouting, which remember is not the norm for the majority of members, we all know why we used to join mikes megas, it was for free loot and money when we were knew players, hence why mikes scouts attract new players not older members ( no offence mike ). so rather than screaming unfair, can you at least just post your findings for sam to see and others to discuss, its every bodies game remember ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted May 19, 2010, 9:43 am

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