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About the league system

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 re: my post could work either way. You get 1 shot or its averaged. Your time suggestion could work for races, but tricker for DRs and pts would still have to be tallied for combats of course. ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 7:45 pm

Big Ron Smoke me a kipper Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 172 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 I'd go with more professional events. I've yet to compete in a single one because of the times they are arranged at. If they could be spread across the day more, admittedly some would get no entries, but early evening stuff would be packed out. I suggest that Sam have a quick peek at how many people are logged on at what times and try and get more 'Pro' players pro-racing. N. ......................... vet Posted Dec 18, 2007, 10:36 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Good idea Ron, I'll do that. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Dec 18, 2007, 11:09 am

madmax MainForcePatrol Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: Dec 6, 2007 Dead thread revival time! I think that the the prizes for pro events need to be increased. I got second in a Pro DR against Alo and xander s while ago and spent more than my winnings fixing my armor. I have also heard people say that placed well in pro races and lost money. ......................... vet wv Posted Mar 12, 2008, 7:53 pm

Marrkos 88 MPH Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,711 Joined: Mar 28, 2006 Was there a hole in CptHowdy's proposal that I didn't see? Same or greater number of league events, and participants are automagically placed into the A, AA, AAA (or whatever) brackets based on how many events they've done. Points calculations wouldn't have to change (I don't think?), and it seems logical that if you run enough events to move into the higher brackets then you should also be running against enough human players to keep your points competitive. Similarly, if there are 10 people who all run 1 event alone (max points), at the end of the league there's a 10-way tie for 1st in the lowest bracket, and the prize money is split between them. ......................... vet wv community Posted Mar 12, 2008, 8:21 pm

Alocalypse Advanced Race Labs Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: May 6, 2007 *Marrkos* said: Was there a hole in CptHowdy's proposal that I didn't see? There's not nearly enough players for that I think. Also I didn't want to suggest this earlier since it overlaps with ladders before, but since no one does ladder stuff seriously... here goes: Mix leagues and ladders (eliminating the ladders until there's enough players for serious competition and a random matchup system) So the league system would use a ranking system similar to the current ladder system (only tuned for multiplayer events and not 1v1 matches) where you can gain or lose points. This way racing more wouldn't exactly be discouraged and you could increase your score even with a 2nd place (if you beat strong players). You can force players to do weekly races by inflating the points (maybe just for NPC drivers if they'll have rankings) every friday, or by having some kind of decay for inactivity. I think inflating points would work better since that way the winner wouldn't be too clear until the end and the stakes would get higher as the season closes. It'd require quite a bit of well thought out algorithms and stuff to keep it all together. (I can try to flesh out and post my ideas on those if this seems like a good idea to other people) ......................... vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont Posted Mar 12, 2008, 10:11 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 I'm definitively in favor of the best score achieved among a maximum of 5 participations on a given track. Example for races: The track would be defined for the whole week, so all players would compete on it. There could even be limitations for the car as well, using the same technic: one car, one track, one week. Same system for DRs and Combats. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Apr 9, 2008, 7:49 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Hey all, I only have a few minutes to post at work and not enough time to read all comments. I have however wanted to post about the league system for a few weeks now. Essentially, I agree with the very first post on this thread: the single-racer has a definite advantage on the participants who race multiple events. I find this frustrating and given my performance in last weeks Somerset Deathrace league, I have decided to "sit pretty" with my single 2nd place finish this week. It seems the only way for me to maybe finish in the top 10 for the league. ... and I hate myself for doing it. I know I am exploiting a weakness in the point system that has consistently frustrated me since I began playing. Here is my suggestion: (apologies if redundant) Would it be possible to keep an average on the number of races that ladder members take part in every week? I think there should be a critical minimum number of events to participate in to be eligible for the prizes. It doesn't need to be high, I understand that not all players can participate as heavily. For example, could we not impose a minimum (on average) of three races per week in the event? For a 4 week event, any player who has not participated in a total of 12 events or more is eliminated from the board when calculating the final standings. I find that 3 races per week is a fair amount. If a player doesn't have time to enter in 3 league event in a period of three weeks, I feel he should not be eligible for organized events, especially when the prizes are rare chassis and vast amounts of money that would be quite useful to more serious participants. Any thoughts? I'll be keeping an eye on this post in the next little while. What I have just proposed is the only solution I can find to the exploitation of the league system by some players. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Nov 3, 2008, 10:15 pm

Kime Dennory Weasel Works Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: Aug 8, 2008 Most of the recommendations in this thread would just keep me from participating in leagues. If you could do up to four races and take the best one, and I can only afford to be on DW twice a week (and I do like to scout too!) then that gives you an enormous advantage over me, because I only play two or three times a week, and I like racing but I also like scouting so I'm not going to dedicate every moment of my play to a league.  This would probably sour me on leagues after a while, and I'd just slowly stop participating in them. If I am actually required to do more than one event a week, then I just would never enter at all. For me, one of the nice things about DW is that it isn't one of those games where you have to be one of the constant players in order to achieve anything interesting.  This is taking us away from that.  If that's the direction DW wants to go, it's a perfectly valid one, but it's not the game I signed up for. I still don't understand what's wrong with the current system.  I mean, we have people complaining that it makes luck far too important, and then you look at the top three people in all the leagues and they're all pretty highly skilled.  And you look at the #1 and there's a better than 50% chance it's Alo or Xander.  And Alo is one of the ones who is complaining.  Presumably because he doesn't actually win <i>every</i> league? -KD ......................... vet Posted Nov 6, 2008, 12:41 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 I don't think it's fair to criticize requests to have players involve themselves in what they undertake. I don't feel that requiring two races a week (on average) is turning Dark Wind into World of Warcraft. Two races! That's eight races for a 4 week event. I understand some people prefer scouting, and I think this suggestion takes that into consideration. Participants should have to make an average to prove that their score isn't all luck. Sure someone might get lucky twice, but at least this lessens the chance involved in the final standings. Following some discussions in the client lobby, I conceed that requiring three events is a little steep. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Nov 7, 2008, 3:07 am

Kime Dennory Weasel Works Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: Aug 8, 2008 I don't care to argue this any more, but I will say that what you're really saying is 'sure, someone might get lucky four times, but probably won't get likely eight times'. Because if it's luck, then they've got to do it every week to win. -KD ......................... vet Posted Nov 7, 2008, 5:52 pm

*Marc5iver* 5ive Crew Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,354 Joined: Oct 10, 2008 I don't see why there should be a problem with having a minimum number of events that you must enter, my thought would be 2-3 a week. Any other league (in real life - bowling, old-man softball, etc), you are required to participate on a regular basis or else you don’t stay in the league for long. If there was nothing and stake (except bragging rights, which are huge) then maybe regular participation wouldn’t/shouldn’t be required. If you don’t have time to enter enough league events, isn’t that what the race, deathrace and arena events are for? When I think of a “league” I think of something where there will be regular participation required. Thats my two cents ......................... vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 Posted Nov 7, 2008, 6:13 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Marc5iver said: If you don’t have time to enter enough league events, isn’t that what the race, deathrace and arena events are for? When I think of a “league” I think of something where there will be regular participation required I couldn't put it more simply. Enter non-league events to have no commitment. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Nov 8, 2008, 4:38 pm

Valiance The Vanguards Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,172 Joined: Jan 15, 2008 I have once finished a league. It was a huge commitment. It required to me to come first in a race *every* week for 12 weeks. More than that seems like far too big a commitment. To date, I think that only Alo has the patience to do that every week. I'd actually like the leagues reward *less* commitment, rather than the current system which means that only people like Alo, who play for about 8 hours every day, find it easy to participate. (No offence, Alo, just trying to balance the game for those without time as well as those with - which was one of Sam's orginal design principles) ......................... vet combat1 wv ped1 northernsummer Posted Nov 8, 2008, 5:56 pm

xander Advanced Research Labs Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 395 Joined: May 8, 2007 Valiance said: I have once finished a league. It was a huge commitment. It required to me to come first in a race *every* week for 12 weeks. More than that seems like far too big a commitment. To date, I think that only Alo has the patience to do that every week. I'd actually like the leagues reward *less* commitment, rather than the current system which means that only people like Alo, who play for about 8 hours every day, find it easy to participate. (No offence, Alo, just trying to balance the game for those without time as well as those with - which was one of Sam's orginal design principles) I've won the race and deathrace league now, without much effort . ......................... vet deathrceL1 gateautumn raceL1 semiprocombat race1 deathrce1 combat1 wv Posted Nov 8, 2008, 6:05 pm

Jaguar Smoke Jaguars Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 424 Joined: May 6, 2009 It seems like there is essentially just one thing to balance around - consistancy. That seems to be the focus. The question is, do people want consistancy within a week or over the whole league? If one is trying to get consistancy across the league (ie the long term), then any one given week shouldn't matter as much which leads to solutions like reduced points per week, greater number of events, more weeks, etc). If it's per week consistancy (short term), then that requires solutions not always inclusive with the above. Compare the differences between American football and baseball. Per game, per inning performance is far less important than season long performance in baseball. For football, due to the high point values, short season, and other factors like champion , any one game is far more important than overall record (it's entirely possible for a team with a 8-8 record to end up the champion of the year or for a unbeaten team to lose a single game and not win the champion). Anyway, my thoughts at the moment would be lowered point value per place: This means closer overall point values which means outstanding performances over time will stand out more than one or two lucky breaks. I would also see a required minimum event requirement and perhaps maximum requirement helping. However, I don't think it should be per-week but rather per-league. That is, you must race at least X events at any time during any week to submit your stats to the league with a max (maybe) of Y events (perhaps taking your results, dropping the highest and lowest scores, and gathering Y amounts of the remainder). Combined with a tiered system of participation (people who race 1-2 events go into one bracket, 3-4 into another, etc) so that there are bracket champs with perhaps a short playoff style overall championship race for all bracket winners. Low required events would be leagues that place more emphasis on luck and per-race performance. You'd probably see more lucky breaks and upsets. Higher ones would have more consistant winners and losers though it may also be a little more boring in the long-long run if the same people keep placing in the top 10. ......................... vet Posted May 8, 2009, 6:45 pm Last edited May 8, 2009, 7:25 pm by Jaguar

Procyon Weak Head Normal Forms Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 384 Joined: May 31, 2009 I like pro events, and I like leagues. I would very much like a pro league. ......................... vet wv pvp3 Posted Jul 2, 2009, 9:33 pm

Swift Dead Men Driving Pedestrian Renegade Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: May 26, 2009 (I hope I don't do thread necromancy here... just had some opinions and suggestions on league play and thought this was a good thread to post it) From the POV of comparatively "new guy" who can have a lucky break and win a race when he less expects it and then the next day do some stupid thing and lose race which he should have won, I must say I don't like the idea of less randomness in league play. Winning 4 events per league is already hard for me; from my POV, it certainly requires skill along with some luck. If you take out skill out of winning league, skilled old-timers are bound to be disappointed. But if you take out luck, newbies have nothing to look forward to... So short and somewhat luck-affected leagues have their purpose -- they help bring newbies to get into spirit of competition and have their skill -- and their luck -- tested against more skilled opponents again and again (and that's the most fun way for newbie to gain some skill for himself, don't you know). Some random ideas I've had after a bit of league racing and death racing. Sorry if they are old, oft-discussed, and somehow non-feasible ideas, I certainly haven't read all of the forums yet . a) Some rare (once per game year), with the best awards in the game, event would be nice. Maybe with special title (seen in lobby, like marshals) given to the winner. Pro event, where best players come together along with newbies, something that is looked forward to and that is talked about after for many weeks. Something like Faster Pussycat death race courtesy of goat starer (thanks for organizing that, btw!), but officially sponsored. b) Like procyon112 said, pro league(s) would be nice. I've seen one pro event in 5 leagues I've been part of. I would have thought at least half of leagues would be fully pro. Why not? (Well, one "why not" I see -- so newbies like me wouldn't be excluded. But atm I don't have any incentive to build and own race cars except for the fact of ownership itself. Pro leagues would help with that -- I know there are many pro events, but what these give except hassle to build/repair cars, and cash, which I have too much already?) c) Why there's no rare engine prizes for finishing top-3 in race leagues? d) Why there's no exclusive race chassis you can get only by winning particular league? Would be cool imho. And bring more loot obsessed players into league play . e) The game might not be big enough (even in all-inclusive leagues there's not enough players to compete against, for my liking), but still -- it would be cool if there was some sort of progression between leagues. A few newbie-friendly leagues, one or two really exclusive leagues you'd have to work to get into. One idea might be that you'd need to win/get particular number of points in one league to get invitation into another league (optionally, with losing access rights to first league after that). Another idea would be counting all points you get for finishing top-10 in league events, and have min and max point thresholds for joining particular leagues. That is all for now, I suppose. Thanks for reading and see you in the game. Swift/DMD. ......................... vet e2g deathrce1 ww Posted Jul 11, 2009, 10:43 pm

Jake Nikodemus Garage Boyz Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 12, 2009 How to fix the leagues? Simply allow racers to do just one of the League races per week, or take the top score of the races completed in the week, rather than averaging. More people would race more league events. Would be pretty cool, because a loss needn't cost you the points for the week. Now another related subject. I would like to do more town events, but I want to know WHO I am racing with. I know some have complained and thus the hidden gang names. I think knowing WHO you are racing against is a BIG part of ROLE-PLAY in town events. It's a fact there are some who would leave or join a race based on who is in the race. SO? What's the problem with that? SHould towns shelter those from the world of evan in town events? Yes a very good driver that I will only add points to by losing to them will be sad. Perhaps not showing up or pulling out of a league event should have some consequence in hopes of discouraging this, like an entry fee (esp with league events). In the REAL WORLD, no racer would drive in events without knowing who is in the race ahead of time. Also, we have destroyed a self-policing aspect of the community by allowing anon registration for events. It's one of those kooky things that makes no sense and drives me a bit more bananas nearly every time I want to participate in some sort of town event. In my own defense, I know this has been decided long ago, and I think we have tried it for long enough now to comment on it. I would like to inquire as to the statistics, are town events that HIDE gang names, more or less attended in comparison to events held BEFORE the change? I ask this because it seems obvious the more participants in these events, the greater reward potential. Also I think regional PvP has been in place for nearly a year, and while any changes would just be disruptive to the community at large, more play options might lure back some of those who have left. Similar to the way Scavenger mode has brought some veteran players back to the game, changing the PvP flag status to work throughout Evan, or work NO-WHERE, may cause the return of some of those turned off to the game after the change was made. With those that crave the hardest of hardcore having their own server to play on, I can't see how there would be too much opposition to such a move. I favor flags working everywhere. EVen with that said, the regionall PvP has had little to no effect on my gameplay yet.... well that's not true, I guess I waited another 9 months before I went south of GW for regular scouts. I know many left because they didn't like the way the forums were burning, it may be too late for them. Not sure how you fix that problem. Maybe it's just better to have those players gone. >shrug< -Jake ANd to the a-hole that blocked the only two pumps that werent prepay at the Mobil on Halsted this morning with his effing electric not-so-SMART-car.....My anger is eclipsed by pity. You are driving a coal powered car that couldnt survive a 5mph impact with a bumblebee. The whole thing shook like an leaf when he closed the door. Scary. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 6, 2012, 3:26 pm Last edited Jan 6, 2012, 3:30 pm by Jake Nikodemus

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 PVP ? whats that. Hidden gang names was a simple change to stop a problem that arose concerning a player / s griefing members ( new members mostly ) during a phase of griefing disruption. again a change that was made to stem a problem that now does not exist and jeusu this thread is nearly five years old ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Jan 6, 2012, 4:05 pm Last edited Jan 6, 2012, 4:08 pm by *Grograt*

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