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About the league system

*Zothen* Knights Templar Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 841 Joined: Jun 11, 2007 *Alocalypse* said: I'd like to see something totally different from what we have now like giving the "Saturday Evening League" type leagues another go, so there's just one race per week where you can get points so it works like a realistic league would. I go with alos suggestion, but Toe is also right! But even if not everybody might join in because of reasons toe mentioned it would  also be a nice addition! More variations of gameplay, more spicey!  But first I think we should abolish or change the bonus-points system! Its the current main reason for the unequality of the leagues. It simply shouldnt be that a race with 5+ subscribers (only subs!) doubles the points of a single race.. E.g. the gaps in a single 44-54+ pts race between the 1st and 2nd are way too big. At least the bonus points should be much lower than they are now. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Aug 12, 2007, 12:36 am Last edited Aug 12, 2007, 12:36 am by *Zothen*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: only subs This is to stop people cheating with dummy gangs, it's nothing more sinister/elitist than that. The idea of the bonus points, of course, is to encourage people to race together. Last season you might recall players avoided each other on purpose, which is really bad for gameplay. I would be happy to reduce the bonus points. Currently it's actually  a square root of the number of veterans subscribers. 2 vets => 1.41x pts 3 vets => 1.73x pts etc. We would need to get the bonus equation just right, as either too high or too low isn't good. Or, alternatively, as had been suggested:  bring back the old-style weekly leagues and give them higher prizes than the current style ones (whose prizes could be reduced). The peak playing times seem to be (server time) 10PM-10AM, so we could have a different league race every 3 hours during that, perhaps. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 12:41 am Last edited Aug 12, 2007, 1:06 am by *sam*

xander Advanced Research Labs Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 395 Joined: May 8, 2007 Hmm, i lost my combat league points this week, because i had to to go right after the game started and resigned after 6 seconds into the game and got 0 points on 1 game. Then after that I tried a race and crashed then it resigned before i could get back in. Another 0 points. ......................... vet deathrceL1 gateautumn raceL1 semiprocombat race1 deathrce1 combat1 wv Posted Aug 12, 2007, 3:25 am

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 even some people can't play specific days. How bout this: since the league last a week, one has an entire week to complete that league event? For example, lets say the race league random event was symphs on the speed track (my fave ). Each player then has 1 week to finish that race offered, say, once every 6 or 8 hours. Then all the other races could be for cash and bragging rights with no loss of points. And each week, the league races would be a totally even playing ground. ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 4:05 am

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 Zothens' idea has some merit in my opinion, with a few changes. since the points won are an 'average' of how many races an individual has ran in the week, make the points shown on the league points winning list update once a week maybe 1 hr before the 'league week' changes. instead of how it is now after every race ran. This way, no one has the advantage of seeing the points totals until the weekly change. They will be 'forced' to rely on looking at their OWN points averages and deciding if it will be good enough when the points are shown or should they risk the possibility of lowering their average by maybe losing a race or two. I have been thinking a lot about this since the League awards were handed out for 'last years' points races! The League points races need a revamping to somehow level the playing/racing fields! ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Aug 12, 2007, 5:36 am

Alocalypse Advanced Race Labs Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: May 6, 2007 I think lowering the points could help a bit, although people who get into the high points races will still have an advantage, only it'll be less noticeable. If you do lower the points next league year then I think the cash prizes should stay the same. I don't think the weekly leagues would or should be for everyone and that we'd need to be too concerned about making sure everyone can join as long as there's enough people in eacho of them to make it competitive, which is why I think less is more with those leagues although they should be spread over the days and timezones just enough to give everyone a reasonable chance to participate... ......................... vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont Posted Aug 12, 2007, 6:10 am Last edited Aug 12, 2007, 6:11 am by *Alocalypse*

Hak The Khans Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 132 Joined: Jul 24, 2007 I like the idea of two activity-based leagues. so that those who race minimally have one leage, and those who race more often have another. add to that everyone in a certain league getting a point per race of that league, whether or not they race, and people who choose to race once a week can't scalp races, and those who have a low number of races by circumstance will be competing equally... ......................... vet Posted Aug 12, 2007, 7:37 am Last edited Aug 12, 2007, 7:39 am by Hak

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Quote: I would be happy to reduce the bonus points. Currently it's actually  a square root of the number of veterans subscribers. 2 vets => 1.41x pts 3 vets => 1.73x pts etc. Maybe +1 point per human player only? ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 12, 2007, 8:26 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I've been thinking about this, and I can see why Zothen and others aren't happy with the current arrangement. The current system favours mostly those players who are flexible in their schedule. There are several conflicting requirements going on here: 1. There must be events on at all times. 2. The leagues should not penalise people that can't play a lot 3. The leagues should not penalise people that want to play a lot 4. The leagues should not penalise people that can't play at particular times. 5. Human players should be encouraged to compete in the same events as each other, but not in such a way that cheating is likely. What I was suggesting for the 'new' weekly leagues would be something like this: Friday is Race League night. These league races run at 10pm, 1am, 4am, 7am, 10am. You can only enter one of these, and there's no bonus points for multiple human entries. Timetrials run at several times on a Thursday. Saturday is Deathrace League night. Timetrials for this run on a Friday. Sunday is Arena Combat League night. We could have league events for these running on other days too, but I think this would lead to people avoiding playing against each other, since there's no bonus points. What about the current league system? This could: 1. Be removed (and all the continuously running events would be for $ only) 2. (Probably the better option): be left as it is, and run in parallel with the 'new' league system. The bonus points for multiple human entrants could be reduced, say by half?, i.e. x1.2, x1.37, etc. Quote: Maybe +1 point per human player only? I think that might be too low, and we would have people avoiding each other in the league events again? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 8:39 am Last edited Aug 12, 2007, 8:47 am by *sam*

Alocalypse Advanced Race Labs Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: May 6, 2007 I think the way the weekly league races would be organized is great. *sam* said: 2. (Probably the better option): be left as it is, and run in parallel with the 'new' league system. The bonus points for multiple human entrants could be reduced, say by half?, i.e. x1.2, x1.37, etc. That sounds good to me too, but I'm afraid that if you change it now after the leagues have started then it'll be very difficult for people to catch up to anyone who got high points races in by luck earlier and has a good lead. ......................... vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont Posted Aug 12, 2007, 9:17 am

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 The points system, I think, is fine as it is...... Quote: *sam* said: 2. (Probably the better option): be left as it is, and run in parallel with the 'new' league system. The bonus points for multiple human entrants could be reduced, say by half?, i.e. x1.2, x1.37, etc. Quote: That sounds good to me too, but I'm afraid that if you change it now after the leagues have started then it'll be very difficult for people to catch up to anyone who got high points races in by luck earlier and has a good lead. As Alo said, changing now would be too confusing with the current system in place. I don't think halving the points for multiple Vets is a good option though. Why not make a "Veteran" wait till the end of the week to see his current points lead/loss. I know this may not be realistic, but it would, in the scheme of things, make the Vets more competitive in League points as opposed to seeing their rise on the points ladder every day after their wins or losses.... All they (Vets) have to go by is the past weeks points and their weekly average from their gang leagues page if this were implemented. ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Aug 12, 2007, 9:45 am

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 I'm coming back on my Week-End Fever idea, sorry for being boring today, but older you are, nastier you become We are all mostly free on week-end, so the idea is to run League events from friday 12:00 pm to monday 12:00 pm, in order to keep on track with multiples time frames (all times are GMT/Server Time). During that period, only one race track and car are chosen for each event type (race, deathrace and arena combat), so all players are competing at equal chances. Maybe we could allow players to keep the best score achieved during such events. Not sure there should be extra points for human beings participating events for equity purpose. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 12, 2007, 9:58 am Last edited Aug 12, 2007, 10:11 am by *viKKing*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 jd - 'hiding' your points will just force you to keep a spreadsheet and work it out for yourself though, no? And to go thru the events diary to work out your rivals' points. vikk- Quote: Maybe we could allow players to keep the best score achieved during such events. I don't like this, as it could mean people entering events just to mess up other people, knowing that their own result was irrelevant. Quote: Not sure there should be extra points for human beings participating events for equity purpose. The problem with this is that humans will just avoid playing in races against each other then. The only way I can see it working with no bonus points is if there is a severely limited amount of events available, which is what the "Friday Night Race League"idea would do. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 10:23 am

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Sure Sam. But I suggest keeping the bonus point very low, because if someone can't compete in the required schedule, he may feel a bit off, and this is what Zothen pointed out. This is why a +1 per player is certainly enough. Concerning events running during only a day and a limited schedule, I can already see people unable to play, this is why IMHO (of course), only week-ends are presenting the appropriate time length. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 12, 2007, 11:56 am

xander Advanced Research Labs Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 395 Joined: May 8, 2007 Maybe have 1 event per day or so that is more than points already so more people would join that. ......................... vet deathrceL1 gateautumn raceL1 semiprocombat race1 deathrce1 combat1 wv Posted Aug 12, 2007, 12:04 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: Concerning events running during only a day and a limited schedule, I can already see people unable to play, this is why IMHO (of course), only week-ends are presenting the appropriate time length. Sure. If you look at the list of conflicting requirements I gave earlier, you'll see that you can't satisfy all players with a single league type. This is why the two different league types being proposed could both run? But would 3 different styles of leagues running simultaneously be too much..? I mean, if someone doesn't have a flexible enough schedule to compete in the high points scoring events (i.e. the current league system), and they can't make Friday or Saturday evening league times, then what will suit them? edit: I see what you're proposing actually vikk. It could work if you were only allowed to enter one of these events, but it could be anytime during the 48 hour period..? Certainly reducing the bonus for number of veterans in the event can be done (to start next season). Does anyone else think that +1 per veteran is enough, or that x1.2, x1.7 etc. is better? Quote: Maybe have 1 event per day or so that is more than points already so more people would join that. That's still favouring people that can manage that particular time though, isn't it? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 1:07 pm Last edited Aug 12, 2007, 1:10 pm by *sam*

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Quote: edit: I see what you're proposing actually vikk. It could work if you were only allowed to enter one of these events, but it could be anytime during the 48 hour period..? Yes, that's the idea behind. Edit: bonus +1 only. I think it's balanced; giving large users races an extra bonus, but not enough to be out of reach of competitors. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 12, 2007, 3:28 pm Last edited Aug 12, 2007, 3:29 pm by *viKKing*

*Speedealer* Fish Heads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 922 Joined: Dec 11, 2006 anyone see my idea? Exact same league event all week but only avail 3 or 4 times daily and then more regular and pro races. Even playing field, track times where everyone can make at least 1 event and more human vs human(s) competition in the nonleague events too ......................... marshal vet combat1 race1 northernsummer combatL1 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 4:52 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Right speed, that could work too yeah. Could each player only enter once, or would it be an average of their pts? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 7:03 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Another possibility here is to record the total time each competitor takes in their race (assuming they can only enter one) and rank them all at the end of the week, and using that to decide the points scored. Not sure if a bonus for multiple human entries is needed in that case. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 12, 2007, 7:29 pm

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