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New ambush spawns

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 goat starer said: if you set up at the edge of the circle you should expect an ambush to be close... its always been like that. Was it? but anyways was just posting for information ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Mar 15, 2010, 1:59 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 It depends on the ambush, tinker.. it's possible that the enemy could be close to the edge of the circle, yes. As close as what you show there is pretty unlikely though. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 15, 2010, 2:37 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 on badlands returns and on scattered hills you would frequently get a car close enough to hit you head on in the first turn if you were at the front of the circle... frequently causing engine and weapon damage and several times setting my buzzers on fire. on the scattered hills ambush where they start on either side of the bridge they are often only a few meters outside the circle. always been one of the fun bits of ambushes with the attendant confusion and chaos. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Mar 15, 2010, 2:40 pm

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 *sam* said: FireFly said: S188138 I knew this new code would be trouble... Oh yes, losing a potential cutlass, to a thing like this, Oh how lovely, I survived... barely... and couldn't loot the cutty because reaching a good spot wasn't going to happen, really, really, fun, first one I've seen there in a good long while to That certainly shouldn't happen, in fact there's specific code in place to check that each car is a certain distance from each other car. However, you haven't quoted the right event ID there.. if you let me know the correct one, I'll investigate. S188131 That should be the one... ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Mar 15, 2010, 7:02 pm

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 I knew it was going to happen sooner or later with this new ambush code and it happened tonight. Most know Acid land was already tough when it came to ambushes on that map. The new code makes them even worse and actually not enjoyable to play because there are few options you can use and now the AI using military like positioning. I was facing a gang with fame at my level and I was using a 350+ scout. But I was still somehow ambushed at 91m out in the open in a spot anyone with a brain would be watching for an ambush at since it's the perfect spot. This is where I have a problem with the new code. 1 - These new ambushes are so close and precise, that one must asume all post apocalyptic NPC gangs are using radar or satellites to spring these urealistic ambushes. This would explain why players can't ambush due to them not having access to radar or satellites. lol 2 - A very high level scout would not fall for such a close ambush. Maybe a further away or better hidden one. What sort of roll would a 350+ scout have to make to roll an ambush and put the enemy at 91m in a spot that gives the player few options? I would have been firing on them long before any reached 91m, it's like a deathrace where you have to let the enemy be at less the 100 before you an fire on them, silly. I could understand this type of ambush occurring if I was not using a scout or a low level one, but a 350+ scout? I wonder what insane ambush I would have faced with a less skilled scout. 3- The NPC cars are put in places their engines would either not let them reach or would have their engine revvng trying to climb these mountains that I'd hear them. Not to mention the ones placed in the open on these moutains where I can cleary see them before reaching such a bad spot.. 4 - It's my opinion the new ambushes are to deadly and if Vets are having a hard time or are now a major challenge for them, this does not look to well for less skilled players who face such brutal situations. Add that an ambush can take twice a long timewise to complete, if you are lucky enough to walk away. 5 - If you keep the code as is and are going to put the player into such unrealistic situations, at least give the player a cookie to try and attain from the battle. Remember my idea of perma damaged ultra rares that you wanted to add? here is the place to do it. The 700 famed gang I faced in this ambush had no rares, not even a razorback. Just the usual never ending clone of missleboats. S188861 I would prefer to have a challenge or be challenged to accomplish an enjoyable goal. not be put in near no win unrealistic situations. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 3:43 am Last edited Mar 16, 2010, 4:07 am by Lord Foul

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 I watched the event Lord F. That was a wicked ambush! You really only had 1 way to go, and took it. Very well played. A mere mortal would not have survived. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 4:31 am

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 LF said: I knew it was going to happen sooner or later with this new ambush code and it happened tonight. Really and where and what did you say exactly? LF said: Most know Acid land was already tough when it came to ambushes on that map. The new code makes them even worse and actually not enjoyable to play because there are few options you can use and now the AI using military like positioning. Why wasn't it enjoyable exactly? A lack of options? A lack of options on a road that has a distinct lack of options in the first place? Or do you actually mean you didn't have an easy way of getting out of it? LF said: I was facing a gang with fame at my level and I was using a 350+ scout. But I was still somehow ambushed at 91m out in the open in a spot anyone with a brain would be watching for an ambush at since it's the perfect spot. Are you saying that you should never be ambushed then because you had good scout along? You fail to tell us what vehicle he was in and what distance you had gone. You go after a high fame target you are more likely to be ambushed (your gang's fame is irrelevant). LF said: 1 - These new ambushes are so close and precise, that one must asume all post apocalyptic NPC gangs are using radar or satellites to spring these urealistic ambushes. This would explain why players can't ambush due to them not having access to radar or satellites. lol Are ambushes meant to be loose and imprecise then? Are they meant to mostly ineffective? Or are they meant to be where your forces are caught unawares by a well positioned enemy force that puts you at an initial disadvantage? LF said: 2 - A very high level scout would not fall for such a close ambush. Maybe a further away or better hidden one. What sort of roll would a 350+ scout have to make to roll an ambush and put the enemy at 91m in a spot that gives the player few options? I would have been firing on them long before any reached 91m, it's like a deathrace where you have to let the enemy be at less the 100 before you an fire on them, silly. I could understand this type of ambush occurring if I was not using a scout or a low level one, but a 350+ scout? I wonder what insane ambush I would have faced with a less skilled scout. How is this relevant? Your scout failed their scout roll badly and you got ambushed. Are you honestly suggesting the quality of the scout should affect how effective the ambush is? Doesn't that go against the logic of it being an ambush (you either see them or you don't)? Well you wouldn't be firing on them before they reached 91m because it is an ambush - as in you were unaware of their presence. LF said: 3- The NPC cars are put in places their engines would either not let them reach or would have their engine revvng trying to climb these mountains that I'd hear them. Not to mention the ones placed in the open on these moutains where I can cleary see them before reaching such a bad spot.. Well guess they would be pre-positioned then, much like an ambush in real life. Look earlier in this thread and the patch thread for possibly explanations on this, particularly in regard to them being in the open and moving at speed - if you really want to. Whilst a certain illusion of reality is nice to maintain, game balance/playability trumps that every time does it not? Quote: 4 - It's my opinion the new ambushes are to deadly and if Vets are having a hard time or are now a major challenge for them, this does not look to well for less skilled players who face such brutal situations. Add that an ambush can take twice a long timewise to complete, if you are lucky enough to walk away. You didn't mention what the result of your ambush was. I had a tough ambush earlier today resulting in a breached vehicle. I don't consider that deadly, I consider it a bit of a challenge and my vehicles looked like they had been through a fight, but they were still in good enough condition to fight a full return. LF said: 5 - If you keep the code as is and are going to put the player into such unrealistic situations, at least give the player a cookie to try and attain from the battle. Remember my idea of perma damaged ultra rares that you wanted to add? here is the place to do it. The 700 famed gang I faced in this ambush had no rares, not even a razorback. Just the usual never ending clone of missleboats. S188861 So what you are saying here is, if the player has to fight there way out of situation then they should be getting rares? By that logic, conversely every time you get a normal spawn you shouldn't get any rares. From this and other comments you have made I have no idea why it is only you that is failing to meet any rares. What CR are you scouting with, what type of vehicles are you scouting with etc etc. LF said: I would prefer to have a challenge or be challenged to accomplish an enjoyable goal. not be put in near no win unrealistic situations. So are you normally challenged in a scout - really? Is the enjoyable goal not survival in an encounter like that - does it have to be a shiny toy? I would be interested to know if anyone has completely lost an encounter since the change due to the new ambush code being more effective for the AI. I know DA lost a carrier van, but that was mostly, in my opinion, down to an unfortunate chain of collisions that left his carrier van sat still with a horde of cars coming up behind it. DA survived and won that fight even though his squad appeared to be set for passives with sniping weapons - I wouldn't call that too deadly - challenging perhaps but not too deadly. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 5:07 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 S188537 Lost ambush. Sam fixed the issue that got me killed though I believe. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 5:24 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 I'm glad to see the new ambush code is shattering some comfortable conventions... As with any major change, the community's reaction has been mixed and the criticism has been omnipresent, but all things considered this is an improvement in terms of replay value: the game will remain challenging beyond what we have seen up to now. I briefly considered canceling my free FL-SS taxi service after I was caught in an ambush on the FL-BL leg of the travel. Shortly after then I decided I much rather enjoy the extra challenge! ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 5:25 am

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Depends on when it was Ser, I will have a check later. Even worst case scenario that is one loss, three wins that I know of for definite (probably more). No doubt Sam will make further changes if things have gotten too hard. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 5:35 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 I love it. I've had multiple ambushes that I've had to sacrifice something to survive. I think it's fantastic, and I want it to stay difficult at least down south. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 5:36 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *Ninesticks* said: LF said: I knew it was going to happen sooner or later with this new ambush code and it happened tonight. Really and where and what did you say exactly? LF said: Most know Acid land was already tough when it came to ambushes on that map. The new code makes them even worse and actually not enjoyable to play because there are few options you can use and now the AI using military like positioning. Why wasn't it enjoyable exactly? A lack of options? A lack of options on a road that has a distinct lack of options in the first place? Or do you actually mean you didn't have an easy way of getting out of it? LF said: I was facing a gang with fame at my level and I was using a 350+ scout. But I was still somehow ambushed at 91m out in the open in a spot anyone with a brain would be watching for an ambush at since it's the perfect spot. Are you saying that you should never be ambushed then because you had good scout along? You fail to tell us what vehicle he was in and what distance you had gone. You go after a high fame target you are more likely to be ambushed (your gang's fame is irrelevant). LF said: 1 - These new ambushes are so close and precise, that one must asume all post apocalyptic NPC gangs are using radar or satellites to spring these urealistic ambushes. This would explain why players can't ambush due to them not having access to radar or satellites. lol Are ambushes meant to be loose and imprecise then? Are they meant to mostly ineffective? Or are they meant to be where your forces are caught unawares by a well positioned enemy force that puts you at an initial disadvantage? LF said: 2 - A very high level scout would not fall for such a close ambush. Maybe a further away or better hidden one. What sort of roll would a 350+ scout have to make to roll an ambush and put the enemy at 91m in a spot that gives the player few options? I would have been firing on them long before any reached 91m, it's like a deathrace where you have to let the enemy be at less the 100 before you an fire on them, silly. I could understand this type of ambush occurring if I was not using a scout or a low level one, but a 350+ scout? I wonder what insane ambush I would have faced with a less skilled scout. How is this relevant? Your scout failed their scout roll badly and you got ambushed. Are you honestly suggesting the quality of the scout should affect how effective the ambush is? Doesn't that go against the logic of it being an ambush (you either see them or you don't)? Well you wouldn't be firing on them before they reached 91m because it is an ambush - as in you were unaware of their presence. LF said: 3- The NPC cars are put in places their engines would either not let them reach or would have their engine revvng trying to climb these mountains that I'd hear them. Not to mention the ones placed in the open on these moutains where I can cleary see them before reaching such a bad spot.. Well guess they would be pre-positioned then, much like an ambush in real life. Look earlier in this thread and the patch thread for possibly explanations on this, particularly in regard to them being in the open and moving at speed - if you really want to. Whilst a certain illusion of reality is nice to maintain, game balance/playability trumps that every time does it not? Quote: 4 - It's my opinion the new ambushes are to deadly and if Vets are having a hard time or are now a major challenge for them, this does not look to well for less skilled players who face such brutal situations. Add that an ambush can take twice a long timewise to complete, if you are lucky enough to walk away. You didn't mention what the result of your ambush was. I had a tough ambush earlier today resulting in a breached vehicle. I don't consider that deadly, I consider it a bit of a challenge and my vehicles looked like they had been through a fight, but they were still in good enough condition to fight a full return. LF said: 5 - If you keep the code as is and are going to put the player into such unrealistic situations, at least give the player a cookie to try and attain from the battle. Remember my idea of perma damaged ultra rares that you wanted to add? here is the place to do it. The 700 famed gang I faced in this ambush had no rares, not even a razorback. Just the usual never ending clone of missleboats. S188861 So what you are saying here is, if the player has to fight there way out of situation then they should be getting rares? By that logic, conversely every time you get a normal spawn you shouldn't get any rares. From this and other comments you have made I have no idea why it is only you that is failing to meet any rares. What CR are you scouting with, what type of vehicles are you scouting with etc etc. LF said: I would prefer to have a challenge or be challenged to accomplish an enjoyable goal. not be put in near no win unrealistic situations. So are you normally challenged in a scout - really? Is the enjoyable goal not survival in an encounter like that - does it have to be a shiny toy? I would be interested to know if anyone has completely lost an encounter since the change due to the new ambush code being more effective for the AI. I know DA lost a carrier van, but that was mostly, in my opinion, down to an unfortunate chain of collisions that left his carrier van sat still with a horde of cars coming up behind it. DA survived and won that fight even though his squad appeared to be set for passives with sniping weapons - I wouldn't call that too deadly - challenging perhaps but not too deadly. Thankyou Nine I was going to get all narky about that 'the games too hard but i won anyway post' but you did it admirably and with rather more restraint than i would have managed. i mean OH MY GOD!!!! WE MIGHT ACTUALLY LOSE OCCASIONALLY!!!  I would love to be in an ambush like this ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 9:48 am Last edited Mar 16, 2010, 9:49 am by goat starer

LoSboccacc Omnia vincit armor Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 523 Joined: Feb 23, 2010 I know we were ambushed in a group scout and that required us to use our brain instead of going on the same spot of tha map again and again were the ai get usually stuck and forming the line. it was hard, and amusing - even if the enemy was at 100mt in plain sight both in front of us and behind, on a place where it could possibly happen without us seeing them first. and it breaks so wonderfully the convention of having only front facing weapon to minimize the cr..... now rear weapons and dropped weapons are essential to get out to safety. ......................... vet wv Posted Mar 16, 2010, 10:05 am

Big Daddy BD And Sons Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 211 Joined: May 8, 2009 I haven't followed much discussion here, or on any threads for a few days. (But I hope 'veil of war' would only affect character effectiveness, not human player visibility - that would be a huge and I think negative change). But I did want to pipe in that the new spawn points are awesome, making for some new and interesting challenges. I've had it for a mix of fighting scouts and light/unarmed travelers, it has been fun for both. Very nice enhancement, thanks Sam. ......................... vet wv0,1,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 5:11 pm

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 I'm loving the road spawn and ambush changes. To players who took losses: don't think of it as rape. Think of it as surprise sex. ......................... vet wv Posted Mar 16, 2010, 6:06 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 From the front and the back! ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 6:25 pm

Celeris Alpha Omega Racing Sunday Driver Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: Mar 2, 2010 I was just in an ambush of a quasi-muscle scout (S188919), and I think that this is what ambushes should be. We started surrounded, far too close to the enemy to escape, but not so close that one has to wonder whether everyone had their eyes closed (seriously, how do you wind up next to the enemy without noticing him?). The fight was tough, and we took losses, but it was winnable (actually, the odds could have been a bit tougher (it was in SS, anyway)). If this is the norm for the new code, I like it. A fight for one's life is refreshing. ......................... vet wv ww sssc paintball semiprocombat gwped combat15,6,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 7:11 pm

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 It isnt so much the new spawns that are upsettiong some, but the fact they may lose very experienced gang members that may have taken years to train ( i myself have no complaints ) i can understand there concerns to overly close ambushes that give then little time to react, and especially for those getting these ambushes with a very high scout. ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Mar 16, 2010, 7:17 pm

LoSboccacc Omnia vincit armor Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 523 Joined: Feb 23, 2010 S189078 I don't know if this was an ambush or not, but I report as an "ambush weirdness": started with one car in front and one behind me, the one behind me facing away from my position ......................... vet wv Posted Mar 16, 2010, 9:34 pm

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Yep was an ambush LoS. Definitely something wonky with the orientation of the Longshot it's facing appeared to be about 90 degrees out (it appeared worse because you set up towards the front of your deployment circle). ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Mar 16, 2010, 10:10 pm Last edited Mar 16, 2010, 11:21 pm by *Ninesticks*

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