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New ambush spawns

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Yeah, I know, Pretty silly of me, still, thats how I would imagine an ambush on that map... very very devastating... Still, I can see why you would like more random ambushes, but I will still say that having "set" ambushes are much better for maps like that. ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Mar 10, 2010, 2:01 pm Last edited Mar 10, 2010, 2:09 pm by FireFly

*Lugal* Luna Sea Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 2,246 Joined: Jan 27, 2008 *sam* said: Quote: Now now sam, once upon a town isn't hard, this is one of the ways I would do it... Not hard for a human, no. Would you like to write an algorithm to automate this sort of calc..?    That's the point that makes this hard.  It's very easy for us to look at a map and pick where to place the cars.  But to have the system automagically place cars in a logical and effective distribution that is appropriate to the terrain, while still allowing for it to pick the encounter locations... that's the trick. If it's not done just right, all you get is variety in silly spawns, rather than an actual improvement. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Mar 10, 2010, 4:07 pm

4saken The 4saken Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,282 Joined: Jan 1, 2008 *Lugal* said: If it's not done just right, all you get is variety in silly spawns, rather than an actual improvement. Yeah I am not sure how you're going to be able to generate random ambushes that are effective. Randomness usually always means car spawning in foolish areas as the terrain is the deciding factor. I think best way may be to have several ambush spawn ideas per map section akin to what FF made. But we need some easy way to set this up that's programmed in somehow (for instance pulling up a map in something like TAC and setting spawn circles). Then you could have players come up with nasty spawns (and submit them for approval). Given time, an ambush could be a terrifying thing. ......................... vet combatL1 wv1,0,0 Posted Mar 11, 2010, 1:46 am

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 FireFly said: Yeah, I know, Pretty silly of me, still, thats how I would imagine an ambush on that map... very very devastating... Still, I can see why you would like more random ambushes, but I will still say that having "set" ambushes are much better for maps like that. Sure an ambush like that would be "devastating", but having bandits teleport 80m behind you out of thin air is silly.  They would need to be going very fast to catch up to you and you would see them coming. Would you stay at 30mph going down a highway if multiple bandits were fast approaching from the rear? Anyone can make devastating ambushes, but they need to be made in a realistic fashion while at the same time not put the player in a no win situation. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Mar 11, 2010, 3:05 am Last edited Mar 11, 2010, 3:09 am by Lord Foul

*Urban Decay* Old School Perverts Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 1,023 Joined: Nov 8, 2007 Well, considering that you can reach an escape distance, you could have an easy looking spawn near you in ambush formation, set as a distraction. Meanwhile 350m or 500m away, on turn 2, the real strike force spawns and comes barreling in after you. From any number of different directions, not always all in a group. That would be quite the surprise ambush. If you didn't notice it happened, or didn't see where they happened to spawn off in the distance, you might set up somewhere while the rest are coming in from the side or behind you. ......................... vet wv marshal raceL1 deathrceL10,4,0 Posted Mar 11, 2010, 3:53 am Last edited Mar 11, 2010, 3:55 am by *Urban Decay*

*Dark Tempest* The Black Legion Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,049 Joined: Jan 27, 2010 Now there's an idea I really like! The original ambush would have a very weak CR, something low enough to be very easy but still high enough to be something that a very good scout roll would come up with. Then on some turn after the start, the remainder of the NPC's spawn at a suitable distance barreling down on the player squad and bring the CR up to a horrible scout roll result. This would be the result of a completely botched roll on a 5 mile scout with a 12 skill scouting ganger. Very rare, but very scary for the players it happens to. It would keep us on our toes for those scouts that seem too easy. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 Posted Mar 11, 2010, 4:17 am Last edited Mar 11, 2010, 4:17 am by Dark Tempest 666

Stingray191 Bladerunners Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 678 Joined: Dec 9, 2008 Bugger. Looks like I'm redesigning my travel groups. Which I guess is the idea and a good thing. Now where did I put that Tank Gun I bought on impulse end up? :] And what happens when you put a TG and a ATG on the same car? :] Yes Yes - a joke as old as Car Wars. ......................... vet wv elmsautumn e2g ww Posted Mar 11, 2010, 4:56 am Last edited Mar 11, 2010, 5:58 am by Stingray191

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Put it in a Sub Compact! ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Mar 11, 2010, 8:30 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 4saken said: *Lugal* said: If it's not done just right, all you get is variety in silly spawns, rather than an actual improvement. Yeah I am not sure how you're going to be able to generate random ambushes that are effective. Randomness usually always means car spawning in foolish areas as the terrain is the deciding factor. I think best way may be to have several ambush spawn ideas per map section akin to what FF made. But we need some easy way to set this up that's programmed in somehow (for instance pulling up a map in something like TAC and setting spawn circles). Then you could have players come up with nasty spawns (and submit them for approval). Given time, an ambush could be a terrifying thing. Yes, the idea of player-submitted spawns had occurred to me, and is a nice idea. In terms of automating this stuff, a few key rules can help a lot in keeping the spawns reasonable.. e.g. there has to be LOS from a spawn point to the player squad, the spawn point has to be on higher ground, etc. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 11, 2010, 8:39 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 But... but... that might make it HARD! ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 11, 2010, 8:42 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 *sam* said: 4saken said: *Lugal* said: If it's not done just right, all you get is variety in silly spawns, rather than an actual improvement. Yeah I am not sure how you're going to be able to generate random ambushes that are effective. Randomness usually always means car spawning in foolish areas as the terrain is the deciding factor. I think best way may be to have several ambush spawn ideas per map section akin to what FF made. But we need some easy way to set this up that's programmed in somehow (for instance pulling up a map in something like TAC and setting spawn circles). Then you could have players come up with nasty spawns (and submit them for approval). Given time, an ambush could be a terrifying thing. Yes, the idea of player-submitted spawns had occurred to me, and is a nice idea. In terms of automating this stuff, a few key rules can help a lot in keeping the spawns reasonable.. e.g. there has to be LOS from a spawn point to the player squad, the spawn point has to be on higher ground, etc. Actually, I'd say that having Los to the target isnt a requirement, for example, there is no worse pain in this game than having a CGL car spawn behind a hill, actually, if you can without to much effort, you should program it so that cars like maelstroms get unique positions, also, if los is a requirement, cars will just spawn on the edge of the "Higher ground" and thereby probably reach the bottom before the fight commences, unless you can have the AI hold position on those hills, it might just serve to give us free topshots. I never assumed programing it would be easy, my head is just a bucket of ideas, so to say, but couldn't it be possible to somehow save a Tac vehicle setup, and use the code from that save to make the ambushes easier to code in? I don't know how this works, but that, from my limited knowledge, seems possible... Or maybe tac templates dont save the right way, if so, maybe that could be changed... Again, I'm not good with code... ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Mar 11, 2010, 10:56 am Last edited Mar 11, 2010, 10:59 am by FireFly

Fealty Lost Slaughterhouse: Bloody Remains Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 1,258 Joined: Jan 6, 2009 I have this to say about the new 'ambushes.' Suck, suck, suckity suck suckass suckity#### suckitydumbass suckity ambush idea. I actually had this massive commentary...but deleted it. Why bother.... I guess I do 2-3 vehicle scouts now, just like everyone else. Thanks for that. ......................... vet wv Posted Mar 11, 2010, 11:53 pm

*Burden* The Speedrunners Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 1,013 Joined: Oct 4, 2009 I agree with DA... These ambushes would be awesome, but they shouldn't happen this way every single time you're ambushed. A perfectly executed, 35-70 meters away ambush should almost never happen. Say, when your scout does a horrible roll. It'd keep everyone on their toes. ......................... wv vet zom marshal pvp2 paintladder Posted Mar 12, 2010, 12:02 am Last edited Mar 12, 2010, 12:02 am by *Burden*

Zephyr River City Gamblers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 551 Joined: Dec 12, 2009 Well sure... a "good scout roll" should allow the players to ambush the NPCs; a bad scout roll results in the opposite.  I believe we're talking about the results of a bad scout roll in this thread.... ......................... vet wv Posted Mar 12, 2010, 12:06 am

Stingray191 Bladerunners Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 678 Joined: Dec 9, 2008 Event number DA? ......................... vet wv elmsautumn e2g ww Posted Mar 12, 2010, 4:13 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Damon, you said yourself you don't even use a scout... and while your encounter was a pretty dangerous spawn, it didn't help that you drove straight into the enemy cars, rather than turning your apaches to let them slip through -- and on top of that, you spawned your van out of protection of any of your vehicles, so of course it'd get shot up. You lost ONE vehicle. I've seen you get your carrier vans shot up before. It was no different this time. Honestly, that ambush isn't as bad as a lot of the ambushes I had to deal with BEFORE the system was changed. *Burden* said: I agree with DA... These ambushes would be awesome, but they shouldn't happen this way every single time you're ambushed. A perfectly executed, 35-70 meters away ambush should almost never happen. Say, when your scout does a horrible roll. It'd keep everyone on their toes. Burden, it doesn't happen every single time. I had an ambush today that was far tamer. Honestly, any time anything remotely different is added people whinge about it... you'd think they just wanted to fight AI that dives off cliffs to give them free loot so that they can go out and watch more AI dive off cliffs... ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 12, 2010, 4:36 am Last edited Mar 12, 2010, 4:38 am by *Serephe*

Marrkos 88 MPH Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,711 Joined: Mar 28, 2006 *Serephe* said: Honestly, any time anything remotely different is added people whinge about it Welcome to the vast network of tubes and pipes that is the Interwebs.  ......................... vet wv community Posted Mar 12, 2010, 4:53 am

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 [quote]Sure an ambush like that would be "devastating", but having bandits teleport 80m behind you out of thin air is silly. They would need to be going very fast to catch up to you and you would see them coming. Would you stay at 30mph going down a highway if multiple bandits were fast approaching from the rear? Anyone can make devastating ambushes, but they need to be made in a realistic fashion while at the same time not put the player in a no win situation. [/quote] Why is it that we drive a 30 mph and get an ambush like Damon where they spawn 30-70 m off your front and back? To roll play it we could say that the scout roll is not only about detecting them, but also engaging them But to help out the role-play (starting the scout at 30 mph is kind of silly) in such extreme examples. What if if they can spawn so close we can all start at varying faster speeds? i.e. 30-70 mph?, also like Urban's idea of a 2nd wave coming towards you at high speed too. The part about starting at 70 mph with them almost touching your bumper can be explained as a failed initial tactical deployment err: on retrospect having a head-on collision at 70 mph could piss off a buch of people ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Mar 12, 2010, 9:17 am Last edited Mar 12, 2010, 9:21 am by *Tinker*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 *Tinker* said: Why is it that we drive a 30 mph and get an ambush like Damon where they spawn 30-70 m off your front and back? We drive at 30mph at all times, right now. This is the average travel speed which, as you know, incorporates scouting ahead and behind and avoiding any armour damage during your travel, on generally poor roads. Certainly this could be changed per-map.. it would only make sense to spawn faster on ones with good roads, for example.. Also, I am considering varied travel speeds based on the roads and skill of scout, plus perhaps some player choice (but if you go too fast you're more liable to get attacked, plus may receive automatic armour damage). *Tinker* said: To roll play it we could say that the scout roll is not only about detecting them, but also engaging them But to help out the role-play (starting the scout at 30 mph is kind of silly) in such extreme examples. What if if they can spawn so close we can all start at varying faster speeds? i.e. 30-70 mph? There's some good logical thinking here.. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 12, 2010, 9:25 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I'm now patching in tweaks to yesterday’s spawning code.. 1) a reasonable scout is now much more capable of avoiding ambushes (they *were* happening too often); 2) the distances that enemies will be at, with the new dynamically-chosen ambush spawns, has been substantially increased; 3) your spawn circle size is now based on your scout and also somewhat the map (this is something I intended to do a long time ago); 4) initial car speeds are now somewhat based on the map (they’ll be in the range 30mph-40mph) – and the initial speed of the NPC ambushers are also somewhat based on your 'scout roll' ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Mar 12, 2010, 1:09 pm

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