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Per-Faction Reputation: Mechanisms

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 This thread is for discussing the mechanisms of per-faction reputation. Please use the other thread to propose and discuss what the actual factions will be. As you may know, the concept of 'per-faction repuation' has been on the table for a long time. The details have not yet been fleshed out so I'm looking for discussion... The basics are: There will be a number of factions, certainly one per town but also ones such as 'northern mutant alliance', 'Texan oil barons', 'Firelight pirate conglomorate', etc. Each faction will have a relationship with each other faction: positive, negative or neutral. NPC members of other factions will be positive/negative towards you according to your standing with their faction, its allies and enemies. The impact of how a faction sees you could be quite wide-ranging, and this is where I see the discussion adding a lot of value... e.g. if you have a high rep. with a town you could have zero gates fees there, cheaper food/water etc.; if you're sufficiently negative with a town they might refuse entry altogether. If you're of positive rep. with the Badlands Pirate Group, you will expect to finding trucing easier in the region, etc. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 10:07 am Last edited Nov 20, 2009, 10:36 am by *sam*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Here's a post from July this year in the private rules council forum (I hope you don't mind me posting it here ninesticks): ninesticks said: Initially I thought of bumping the older thread (on page 3), but I thought perhaps a fresh discussion would be wiser. Apart from the cyclical PvP discussions going on I have seen this mentioned a few times in the forums and wanted to get it on the current agenda with the RC. Currently the fame and reputation system seem somewhat muddied and confused (primarily be each player's interpretation of the terms as much as anything) and could do with an overhaul. I think per faction rep could make for a more enjoyable gaming experience in that it gives the world of Evan more of a feel to it, allows players to get better feedback on the impact of their actions and acts as a potential funnel for some great RP (player generated or even RP interjects). I think it would also aid as a means of allowing players to define their own paths and objectives better (beyond characters, cars and guns) which helps increase the depth of the game and to some degree its longevity. So after that somewhat lengthy preamble (my apologies) here is what I would like to put on the table. This list is not intended to be exhaustive - just my thoughts so far. 1. Each NPC entity (town or gang) has a direct relationship to each player gang. Rather than numbers I would use terms. Neutral, wary, friendly, trusted, sworn enemy etc. A tendency towards a defined start position would be great, though I would think that any degradation would be long term rather than short term. The defined start position would depend on the entity involved. 2. NPC entities would be grouped into sets. Actions would have both a positive and negative cascade effect (as discussed in the other thread). 3. Perhaps fame (again expressed in a term rather than numbers) could act as a multiplier or factor on the cascade effect. 4. Reserve missions from each entity according to the player's standing. So you have to run around on a few low level runs before being trusted with the bigger stuff - unless word of your capabilities precedes you of course. 5. Each entity should have its own standing with other entities. This could help delineate the groupings for the cascade effect as well as allow some movement in the system. 6. Create/Modify existing mission types. The courier, escort and taxi missions (perhaps based on town rep?) are great. Assassination missions could be generated between opposing groups or entities. Bounties could be generated by entities or groups on each other or even players. You could even have pirate entities generate missions (helping out against bounty hunters, other pirates etc). Thanks for taking your time to read this far Looking forward to your comments, additions and deletions. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 10:09 am

4saken The 4saken Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,282 Joined: Jan 1, 2008 So there will be some faction overlap, then? For instance, we might have Muties and Normies and of course SS would be part of the normies. Do we need so many factions? How many do we think is ideal? I'll have to dig up some of the old posts on this. I wonder if we should have a separate thread for which factions and one for the effect of pos/neg faction rep? Each thread could still get quite large! ......................... vet combatL1 wv1,0,0 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 10:11 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Some more stuff dug up from previous discussions: (OMG we have been discussing this stuff for over 2 years I see... I really must get to it this time!) Sam said: If you're very much disliked by a faction that an NPC deathracing/arena gang belongs to, they will prefer to shoot you in deathraces before other targets. Maybe we could allow 'donations' of $ to a particular faction, and this gives you some 'influence points' with the factions Thread here: 'Pirate Playing' Another interesting idea is that if you have a very negative rep. with the NPC that beats you in a wilderness combat, they might kill your characters. Thread here: Per-Faction Rep. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 10:12 am Last edited Nov 20, 2009, 10:26 am by *sam*

4saken The 4saken Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,282 Joined: Jan 1, 2008 *sam* said: Another interesting idea is that if you have a very negative rep. with the NPC that beats you in a wilderness combat, they might kill your characters. This is one of the main things I want factions for. IMO the two biggest reasons for factions are: 1) How a town treats you (prices, gate fees, if they will let you use the town to escape at the gates, if the merchants will even buy from you at all, etc) 2) How NPC gangs treat you (do they shoot you if you demo or surrender, what do they do with any captives, do they hate you so much they actually single your cars out in multiplayer squads, etc) ......................... vet combatL1 wv1,0,0 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 10:29 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Moved to announcements forum to keep it visible! ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 12:55 pm

Fealty Lost Slaughterhouse: Bloody Remains Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 1,258 Joined: Jan 6, 2009 This is something the game really needs. For those who choose the pirate life, and who survivors tell of when they wander back into town, things SHOULD be harder to do in that town...trading, etc., in the form of higher [ much ] or lower [ much ] depending on what you're trying to do. When you reach a certain level of hatred, you shouldn't even be allowed in the gates and in fact should be attacked by the militia. Same goes for people with pos' reps trying to wander around in high pirate activity areas. If you hunt pirates, pirates should hunt you, take out bounties, etc., and getting into towns that cater to pirates [ or generally bad guys ] should be harder, if not downright impossible. Are there going to be 'pirate traders?' If towns are going to hate each other, there has to be...this would also give us 'good' guys something to go after! We could disrupt supply lines going to the 'bad' towns and camps...opening up role play on both sides of the coin. .02 ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 20, 2009, 4:17 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 Damon_Angel said: Are there going to be 'pirate traders?' If towns are going to hate each other, there has to be...this would also give us 'good' guys something to go after! We could disrupt supply lines going to the 'bad' towns and camps...opening up role play on both sides of the coin This was one of the best parts of 'faction rep' to me - you could be a 'good guy' in the eyes of some of the traders while attacking their competition... ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 5:43 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 When scouting from town, would you have the option to - 'hunt pirates' 'hunt traders' 'hunt pirates from XXX faction' etc. Or would we need to know who we're up against and choose based on that? ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 5:44 pm

Flaming savage Mirrored Pain Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,788 Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Not trying to be a annoy you here but, whats a faction? ......................... vet wv raceL1 pvp2 combatL1 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 7:07 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 Just another term for 'group of gangs' that have a single cause or thought. In other words... One faction might consist of two pirate gangs that fight all traders EXCEPT a particular trader gang that supplies them. This trader is part of that faction. Attacking them is just like attacking the two pirate gangs, while attacking their competition would be like HELPING that faction (and going against the other faction). Does that help? ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 7:25 pm

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 brain dump! I think it'd be really great to have a weekly or monthly, "faction report" that keeps a running tab on the general success/failure rate of factions. Similar to a wilderness league, perhaps even with prizes for participation (sort of monthly bonuses for members). It could be based on a number of things: 1. successful scouts for/against the faction 2. missions achieved for/against the faction 3. grand total of fame amongst player-gangs that are "members" of the faction (see below what I mean by that) The effect of a player-gang's activities for/against a faction would be weighted depending on the gang's level of association with a faction. So a gang that is an "enemy" of a faction would cause full fame damage when defeating an "friend" of the faction in combat (and the reverse). A gang that is a "friend" or "member" of a faction would give the faction some fame when they accomplish faction spawned missions. Gangs in the gray area between "friend" and "enemy" would still add/decrease faction fame, but far less than full members. It may be helpful to refer to this "faction fame" as something different, for the time being. Perhaps, "faction points" would work. I think we could also really use a new kind of mission in the tavern, that being a bulk goods mission. I.e. Ship 500 units of food to Sarsfield by 11-20. I would think being in your own faction town would give you cheaper rates on regular goods, but limited access to rare goods. Being in your "enemies" faction town would double or triple basic equipment costs but give you access to rare weaponry (essentially - your faction is shipping deadly weapons into the area and preferring to sell it to you.) ......................... vet wv Posted Nov 20, 2009, 8:07 pm Last edited Nov 20, 2009, 8:08 pm by simonmaxhill

Flaming savage Mirrored Pain Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,788 Joined: Jan 21, 2007 makes complete sense now jimmy. thnks ......................... vet wv raceL1 pvp2 combatL1 Posted Nov 20, 2009, 8:41 pm

*Burden* The Speedrunners Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 1,013 Joined: Oct 4, 2009 With this, we would have to be able to choose what gangs we fight then, rather than fighting a random gang, in scouts. ......................... wv vet zom marshal pvp2 paintladder Posted Nov 20, 2009, 10:54 pm

4saken The 4saken Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,282 Joined: Jan 1, 2008 Burden said: With this, we would have to be able to choose what gangs we fight then, rather than fighting a random gang, in scouts.  Or at least which faction and pirates/traders of that faction, perhaps? Anyway I think the worst a town should ever treat you is: No safety when escaping into town. Merchants will not sell or buy. You can still buy on the market, but not sell. You can still have a lockup, though it may be much smaller. This will allow you to keep fuel and some ammo. Greatly increased gate fees (basically a bribe), maybe x5? Without this you won't be able to get around. For instance, if GW locked you out you could not get from SS to BL. This could, of course change if direct routes, or routes to camps and then to far away cities, could be found. ......................... vet combatL1 wv1,0,0 Posted Nov 21, 2009, 3:51 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *jimmylogan* said: Just another term for 'group of gangs' that have a single cause or thought. all aboard the 'kick th ecrap out of FF faction!' woo hoo!!! oh i just realised why i stopped drinking... oops ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Nov 21, 2009, 4:11 am

*Burden* The Speedrunners Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 1,013 Joined: Oct 4, 2009 4saken said: Without this you won't be able to get around. For instance, if GW locked you out you could not get from SS to BL. This could, of course change if direct routes, or routes to camps and then to far away cities, could be found. Well, some towns would have to be neutral of course :] ......................... wv vet zom marshal pvp2 paintladder Posted Nov 21, 2009, 11:27 am

*Rezeak* The Dark Knights Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,377 Joined: Aug 8, 2009 maybe keep the towns up north neutral? ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 marshal pvp2 zom pvp3 Posted Nov 21, 2009, 1:33 pm

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 4saken said: Burden said: With this, we would have to be able to choose what gangs we fight then, rather than fighting a random gang, in scouts.  Or at least which faction and pirates/traders of that faction, perhaps? Anyway I think the worst a town should ever treat you is: No safety when escaping into town. Merchants will not sell or buy. You can still buy on the market, but not sell. You can still have a lockup, though it may be much smaller. This will allow you to keep fuel and some ammo. Greatly increased gate fees (basically a bribe), maybe x5? Without this you won't be able to get around. For instance, if GW locked you out you could not get from SS to BL. This could, of course change if direct routes, or routes to camps and then to far away cities, could be found. We will have to be extremely careful concerning restriction of movement around the towns / truckstops, realistic maybe BUT would it be good for a game where we have trouble persuading people to leave ss already ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Nov 21, 2009, 1:40 pm

*Rezeak* The Dark Knights Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,377 Joined: Aug 8, 2009 well if more people group scouted more often in other places *cough* Badlands *cough* then maybe more people would go there ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 marshal pvp2 zom pvp3 Posted Nov 21, 2009, 2:33 pm

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