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About the league system

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 If the leagues all have predetermined events there would be nothing to stop you signing up days in advance. Part of the game is not merely scoring points for winning, but trying to reduce your opponents point average by pushing them down the placings. That allows for interesting things like no-hopers being paid by the big leaguers to sabotage their opposition. "Don't worry about placing kid, take out TEAM-X for me and I'll pay you $20,000." You could end up in an exciting bidding war (play it for fun people). Either every entrant should be anonymous (AI as well) or no-one should be. Do we really all turn up to events 5 minutes before they start and manage to get our vehicles on the track unseen (under a blanket maybe?). This is probably more akin to a medieveal joust (where showing who you are is the main point) than a modern amateur dirt race league where sportsmanship is hopefully the order of the day. The rewards for placing highly in the league are too much to allow an elite to dictate the mechnaism by which winnings are determined. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Jan 7, 2012, 8:10 pm

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Juris said: Just because you are signed up for an event doesn't prevent you from doing other events. You could sign up, solo scout, call TO, do event, finish scout. Great idea JTO but probably only 1 bonus point for early sign up and only if another human joins. I disagree. One point isn't enough to motivate anybody, especially when competing against even a single human opponent gets you two points. I'm pretty sure the 1-2-3 system is well-balanced, i.e., it will reward those willing to announce their intent to compete while not being a primary factor in determining the eventual champion. These points should also not be contingent on another player joining. If you're there, you're there. I really think that for once I've hit on an idea that is balanced and sound right from the get-go. It works for pros and noobs alike. If you want to snipe an event with a lot of players, your potential points will still exceed their registration bonus if you win, but your margin will be smaller. It's fair. It's simple. It'll work. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Jan 7, 2012, 11:28 pm Last edited Jan 7, 2012, 11:29 pm by *JeeTeeOh*

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 *JeeTeeOh* said: Juris said: Just because you are signed up for an event doesn't prevent you from doing other events. You could sign up, solo scout, call TO, do event, finish scout. Great idea JTO but probably only 1 bonus point for early sign up and only if another human joins. I disagree. One point isn't enough to motivate anybody, especially when competing against even a single human opponent gets you two points. I'm pretty sure the 1-2-3 system is well-balanced, i.e., it will reward those willing to announce their intent to compete while not being a primary factor in determining the eventual champion. These points should also not be contingent on another player joining. If you're there, you're there. I really think that for once I've hit on an idea that is balanced and sound right from the get-go. It works for pros and noobs alike. If you want to snipe an event with a lot of players, your potential points will still exceed their registration bonus if you win, but your margin will be smaller. It's fair. It's simple. It'll work. You guys sure dont think stuff through huh?  A few of you seem ready to pass such a thing through on first glance. You and your friends join early and score big regardless.  That system is ripe for the kind of abuse Alo/Xander used to do. Basically for league events you shouldn't be able to back out period.  Perhaps after you join nothing is anonymous anymore...but perhaps you could change driver/vehicle?  Oh and you are locked in...no backing out. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Jan 7, 2012, 11:31 pm Last edited Jan 7, 2012, 11:34 pm by Joel Autobaun

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Joel Autobaun said: *JeeTeeOh* said: Juris said: Just because you are signed up for an event doesn't prevent you from doing other events. You could sign up, solo scout, call TO, do event, finish scout. Great idea JTO but probably only 1 bonus point for early sign up and only if another human joins. I disagree. One point isn't enough to motivate anybody, especially when competing against even a single human opponent gets you two points. I'm pretty sure the 1-2-3 system is well-balanced, i.e., it will reward those willing to announce their intent to compete while not being a primary factor in determining the eventual champion. These points should also not be contingent on another player joining. If you're there, you're there. I really think that for once I've hit on an idea that is balanced and sound right from the get-go. It works for pros and noobs alike. If you want to snipe an event with a lot of players, your potential points will still exceed their registration bonus if you win, but your margin will be smaller. It's fair. It's simple. It'll work. You guys sure dont think stuff through huh?  A few of you seem ready to pass such a thing through on first glance. You and your friends join early and score big regardless.  That system is ripe for the kind of abuse Alo/Xander used to do. Basically for league events you shouldn't be able to back out period.  Perhaps after you join nothing is anonymous anymore...but perhaps you could change driver/vehicle?  Oh and you are locked in...no backing out. I don't know who Alo/Xander are (were), but if anonymous registration is removed it becomes pretty easy for the community to spot the people involved and, errrm, address the issue man to man. I like to think the people who would abuse the system in that way are in the minority (which probably places me somewhere between Forrest Gump and Pollyanna, but hey, I try to see the good), which means the guns of the majority could go a long way to convincing them that gaming the system is on the "bad idea" list. Help me out with the "can't back out" suggestion... I'm not seeing the purpose of that one. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Jan 8, 2012, 12:25 am

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 *JeeTeeOh* said: Joel Autobaun said: *JeeTeeOh* said: Juris said: Just because you are signed up for an event doesn't prevent you from doing other events. You could sign up, solo scout, call TO, do event, finish scout. Great idea JTO but probably only 1 bonus point for early sign up and only if another human joins. I disagree. One point isn't enough to motivate anybody, especially when competing against even a single human opponent gets you two points. I'm pretty sure the 1-2-3 system is well-balanced, i.e., it will reward those willing to announce their intent to compete while not being a primary factor in determining the eventual champion. These points should also not be contingent on another player joining. If you're there, you're there. I really think that for once I've hit on an idea that is balanced and sound right from the get-go. It works for pros and noobs alike. If you want to snipe an event with a lot of players, your potential points will still exceed their registration bonus if you win, but your margin will be smaller. It's fair. It's simple. It'll work. You guys sure dont think stuff through huh?  A few of you seem ready to pass such a thing through on first glance. You and your friends join early and score big regardless.  That system is ripe for the kind of abuse Alo/Xander used to do. Basically for league events you shouldn't be able to back out period.  Perhaps after you join nothing is anonymous anymore...but perhaps you could change driver/vehicle?  Oh and you are locked in...no backing out. I don't know who Alo/Xander are (were), but if anonymous registration is removed it becomes pretty easy for the community to spot the people involved and, errrm, address the issue man to man. I like to think the people who would abuse the system in that way are in the minority (which probably places me somewhere between Forrest Gump and Pollyanna, but hey, I try to see the good), which means the guns of the majority could go a long way to convincing them that gaming the system is on the "bad idea" list. Help me out with the "can't back out" suggestion... I'm not seeing the purpose of that one. I am in a unique position to tell you the community cannot "sort out" anyone, for anything.  I will admit I am talking some hearsay about alo/xander, but my impression was there was #### all anyone could do about it. The fact is the community cannot stomp someone, we tried to do it to Firefly and he thrived. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Jan 8, 2012, 12:32 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Anonymous Racers: Most possible, just hide behind the coffee stand or dress up like the Stig. The car would be known though, no doubt about that. Cars should always be known, can't hide that anyway shape or form. Racers could be anonymous. You may not know who the car belongs to, but you should be able to see what it is. I share Longo's POV here a bit, I've not competed more than competed, because the person I saw in the event was new. Having Anon entry actually eliminates this issue for me. Bonus Points for Entrants: Nah, that ain't gunna work, I agree with Joel. I see that causing way more fuss than fixing. It makes a simple situation really complicated. Iron Wraith is on it. Racing for The Mob anyone? My (most ridiculous) Proposal: Top 5 in the league go to the finals. Whatever that may be. The best would win more often. The newbs would have no chance in hell unless they pay the best to take out the best. Overall, I think there is a greater % of the player base competing in the leagues right now. Not sure about that though as I do it rarely. No Bastillian gets up once a month to do something at a scheduled time, sheesh. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Jan 8, 2012, 1:13 am

Jake Nikodemus Garage Boyz Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 12, 2009 Did Joel just make the case for "the community cannot police itself"? Lemme pick my jaw up off the floor. I hate to hear that. Bastille and Joel have interesting counterpoint to the bonus points system. Perhaps bonus points system in place IS the problem to begin with? If there were no way you could farm opponents for bonus points then the problem is gone, right? -Jake ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 8, 2012, 2:02 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 I guess the bonus points are kinda needed, there has to be some way of separating the scores a bit. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Jan 8, 2012, 2:44 am

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 *Bastille* said: Anonymous Racers: Overall, I think there is a greater % of the player base competing in the leagues right now. Correct, it has turned out better than expected. There is one other reason why the change took place, the leagues were dying a slow death due to a lack of participation on all fronts. A long while back the research was done, presented to Sam and the change went in on a trial basis, then monitored for a full season. The end result is it brought the leagues back to life and participation doubled or even tripled in some of the leagues since the change, thus the change stayed in as it proved beneficial to the game overall. If you really want to face tough competition in the leagues and not just the new guys, ask in the lobby. You can also pm the vets you see there or join the event and maybe a vet will join at the last minute and then you will have some competition. I can’t speak for Joel or any of the other Vets out there, but in all my years here I do not recall one player coming up to me and saying “Foul, I want to face you in the major league event coming up because I want to face some real competition, not just the newer guys.” Most players are not stupid, true they may want to have some “competition” as the AI can easily be beaten under most conditions, but many players want to win more than compete against a tougher foe. Especially when there’s a nice rare prize that can be obtained for placing well. I’ve seen players pound their chests before saying “me want competition” , but at the same time see those same players avoid all the vets and take a fall every week/day for a friend/ally in some league so their friend/ally can get the league points needed to beat the vet instead of competing against the vet.  If a player is serious about wanting to face tougher competition, back it up with actions, not just with words. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,205,126 Posted Jan 8, 2012, 3:11 am

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Personally, I'm not talking about competition for competition's sake here. I'm looking for a way to know when the frontrunners in a league are entered in an event so I can get after them. Well, try to get after 'em and get shot to hell is more accurate. From what I'm hearing though the anonymous entry system seems the best way to avoid abuse, given our community's alleged inability to deal with abusers on the track. Not such a big deal for me; I almost never manage to make all the events in a league series anyway. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Jan 8, 2012, 4:38 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,670 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Lord Foul said: *Bastille* said: Anonymous Racers: Overall, I think there is a greater % of the player base competing in the leagues right now. Correct, it has turned out better than expected. There is one other reason why the change took place, the leagues were dying a slow death due to a lack of participation on all fronts. A long while back the research was done, presented to Sam and the change went in on a trial basis, then monitored for a full season. The end result is it brought the leagues back to life and participation doubled or even tripled in some of the leagues since the change, thus the change stayed in as it proved beneficial to the game overall. If you really want to face tough competition in the leagues and not just the new guys, ask in the lobby. You can also pm the vets you see there or join the event and maybe a vet will join at the last minute and then you will have some competition. I can’t speak for Joel or any of the other Vets out there, but in all my years here I do not recall one player coming up to me and saying “Foul, I want to face you in the major league event coming up because I want to face some real competition, not just the newer guys.” Most players are not stupid, true they may want to have some “competition” as the AI can easily be beaten under most conditions, but many players want to win more than compete against a tougher foe. Especially when there’s a nice rare prize that can be obtained for placing well. I’ve seen players pound their chests before saying “me want competition” , but at the same time see those same players avoid all the vets and take a fall every week/day for a friend/ally in some league so their friend/ally can get the league points needed to beat the vet instead of competing against the vet.  If a player is serious about wanting to face tougher competition, back it up with actions, not just with words. “Foul, I want to face you in the major league event coming up because I want to face some real competition, not just the newer guys.”  Ped Combat and Paint League is where I will be. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Jan 8, 2012, 6:19 pm Last edited Jan 8, 2012, 6:20 pm by Longo

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 *JeeTeeOh* said: Personally, I'm not talking about competition for competition's sake here. I'm looking for a way to know when the frontrunners in a league are entered in an event so I can get after them. Well, try to get after 'em and get shot to hell is more accurate. From what I'm hearing though the anonymous entry system seems the best way to avoid abuse, given our community's alleged inability to deal with abusers on the track. Not such a big deal for me; I almost never manage to make all the events in a league series anyway. Maybe if you are a league leader(1-3?) you cant be anonymous. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Jan 8, 2012, 6:58 pm

*Tango* 2ManyRads CI Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,543 Joined: Mar 21, 2010 [quote=Lord Foul] If you really want to face tough competition in the leagues and not just the new guys, ask in the lobby. [/quote] This isn't used nearly enough. I've done some events just because good people were drumming up support in the lobby (i.e. good Rally or DR in 15 minutes...). Like everything it's more interesting with more people. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp5 pvp4 combat1 pvp3 zom community Posted Jan 8, 2012, 8:34 pm Last edited Jan 8, 2012, 8:34 pm by *Tango*

Jake Nikodemus Garage Boyz Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 12, 2009 [quote=PA Racers] In the REAL WORLD, no racer would drive in events without knowing who is in the race ahead of time. Also, we have destroyed a self-policing aspect of the community by allowing anon registration for events. It's one of those kooky things that makes no sense and drives me a bit more bananas nearly every time I want to participate in some sort of town event. ANd to the a-hole that blocked the only two pumps that werent prepay at the Mobil on Halsted this morning with his effing electric not-so-SMART-car.....My anger is eclipsed by pity. You are driving a coal powered car that couldnt survive a 5mph impact with a bumblebee. The whole thing shook like an leaf when he closed the door. Scary.[/quote] Hummm? Is this Halstead located in PA? Just wondering. I do disagree with the real world example, as I do race Dirt Latemodels and IMCA mods here in PA, and NY. I travel to the local, and not so local races at times, and never know who might show up till you get there. Most times you have a pretty good idea who will show up but ya never know. Point is ya race whoever shows up. I enter the races I run on here based on the track and car, if they are ones I like I enter if not I pass. I enjoy racing with the better racing vets myself, I prefer a good close race anytime over one where the winner is half a lap ahead or more. [/quote] I've been around racing all my life, and while it's true you never know who might show up from week to week, I've never heard of racing strangers, or having no idea who is there. The only race style I've seen where strangers race each other is in spectator drags, where race fans race each other. Most tracks have time trials. This clues you in on who is there that night. Then there are several heat races before the feature. As a fan, I can tell who is there before any events simply by looking at the lorries in the back lot or pits. Drivers and teams are far more plugged in to who is racing than a mere fan, in most cases. Racing is something my family has been involved in one way or the other for generations. Its only in the lowest level of racing, like go-karts, you might run up against a completely unproven stranger. The higher the level of racing, the less likely it is to drive against an unproven stranger. This is because each time a driver gets behind the wheel, might be his last. In the highest levels of racing (with the fastest and most expensive equipment) everyone knows everyone. In the Evan race leagues, each event is held after one month of game-time preparation, which is the same at the track prep time for Indy 500 and Daytona 500. This means that the league events are big events, not just a weekly feature. My point: You know who is racing before the race starts in almost every case. Secondary point: This is a safety feature of racing that allows teams and racers to determine the level of risk they would be likely to face from opponents. If the current system is 'good for the game' well then sobeit. I think DW is a great game and I want a whole lot more people to play and love the game as much as I do. I don't generally lobby for changes to suit my play style to better my own fortunes in the game, or restrict anyone's fun. I do appreciate the discussion, hopefully something can be done to make it more RP worthy, but if simulation is what we are left with, I am ok with that too. (geez all this BS from me about RP, guess I should get in on that crap in the forums! =D) So once again, lets make all registration anon, even the NPC gangs and all town events. I think it may be giving too much info indicate when human gangs are involved. This way the only way a racer could drum up bonus points would be to drum up interest and get a bunch of humans to race against. Seriously though, if we are changing code because of a few griefers or exploiters, isn't it like passing the patriot act? Yes, the terrorists (griefers/exploiters) win, and we lose more freedoms. -Jake ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 8, 2012, 11:41 pm

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Joel Autobaun said: The fact is the community cannot stomp someone, we tried to do it to Firefly and he thrived. Wait, you did what now!?  ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Jan 9, 2012, 5:23 am Last edited Jan 9, 2012, 5:23 am by FireFly

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Jake quoted PA about Real world racing... I definitely get that in the real world this to be true, and Im not involved in racing in any fashion other than watching it on TV or playing it on my Personal Computation Device. In Real world racing theres lots of rules and regulations and registrations and all sorts of jazz to even the playing field. In Evan, More or less anything goes, the one main rule, whether or not you can drive around backwards and shoot people or not. This is at your throat, slash your tires, stick mutant rats in the back seat. It would be most possible to change the driver I would think. There might be some way of making that interesting; posting the drivers name of original registration and giving the option to bluff another driver in. If you get found out you play with the original driver. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Jan 9, 2012, 8:30 am

Leonine LionCheetas Pedestrian Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: Apr 18, 2013 Can we have a new Deathrace Leauge? Something like the Northern Semi-Pro Combat, 5+ weeks, a variety of towns each week, some events track cars, others B.Y.O! Heck, do this for straight Racing too! Very little programmer work, just some new rosters! ......................... vet wv combat1 semiprocombat ped2 ped1 Posted Mar 20, 2014, 11:49 pm

musashi_san sunset samurai Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,118 Joined: May 7, 2012 other than byo how is this not coe? ......................... vet wv pvp4 pvp2 pvp1 Posted Mar 21, 2014, 12:56 am

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