Pages: << prev 1, 2, 3, 4 next >>

Understanding the PVP debate, Have I missed Something?

Alec Burke Overlanders Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 480 Joined: Sep 5, 2010 Joel Autobaun said: i must admit that last vote really had me scratching my head.  Team shooting in scouts instead of open pvp in the south (which was voted 50/50 - the one goat is talking about).  Hey if you dont like the way things are decided just re-word a new poll in YOUR favour!  THAT the DW playerbase way! hahaha. To be fair here, though, it was Sam himself who created the last poll. I do agree about the fact it is odd that people voted for team shooting as part of the last poll. As as non-voter, I wouldn't even attempt to figure out what the thoughts were on both sides. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp2 Posted Jan 18, 2014, 9:18 pm Last edited Jan 18, 2014, 9:20 pm by Alec Burke

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 762 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Quote: Unlike Grooves blinkered response I am not suggesting everyone who PVPs is ONLY in the south that would be rubbish. Everyone needs to stop arguing the small points and focus on a broad solution once that is agreed we will all have to compromise the little issues. My suggestion is that as Goat clarifies above the pvp flag works in the northern triangle and dosent below that. What are you talking about? I wasn't even talking to you. I was talking to people who wanted PVPers to get their fix with squad challenges. I don't care if the PVP flag only works in the top three towns and it's open everywhere. Does seem illogical from a viewpoint of someone who wants no part of it, but I don't hear anyone arguing about that point. If you could read, I said leave the PVP flag and make intercepts work better. That's all I said. Want to make the South open? Whatever, don't plan on going there anyway. I don't understand what making the South open accomplishes, really. Thinking of it from a newer player perspective - "Hmm, I should start trying to PVP in Badlands. Yea, that's exactly what I'm gunna do." said no one ever. But I wouldn't tell the people in the South how to run the South. Because I'm not in the South. ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Jan 20, 2014, 12:46 am Last edited Jan 20, 2014, 12:50 am by Groovelle

Ragnak Ragnaks Reavers Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: Jul 7, 2010 Bigspenner said: An entertaining conversation for a while between Goat and Alec above but I believe the following would give everyone a fair slice of the action they want. No, it doesn't and it hasn't. As Burke pointed out, it was implemented that way, run for some time and then put to a vote whether to keep it and its now gone the way of the dodo bird. The thing is that the solution didn't do anything for either side to be happy with. The Pro PVP player and Pro PVE player are at opposite ends and some middle ground just doesn't work in this kind of game. Half measures just haven't cut it here. My personal opinion is one that a Pro-PVP player will never be happy with DW simply because there just isn't a player base to support a healthy PVP "Stand and Deliver" type of game. If we had a hundred players active in the game at any hour with events being kicked off every minute from any town, would not the pro-pvp player be in their Nirvana? Even if they failed to intercept player A leaving BL due to a scout check, they could immediately try again when ready for Player B or Player C. PVP play sucks today because you can sit at your terminal for an hour and maybe only have a couple of events you might be eligible to hit and then its with the same few players you would group scout out of SS from later. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 20, 2014, 4:13 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Ragnak said: Bigspenner said: An entertaining conversation for a while between Goat and Alec above but I believe the following would give everyone a fair slice of the action they want. No, it doesn't and it hasn't. As Burke pointed out, it was implemented that way, run for some time and then put to a vote whether to keep it and its now gone the way of the dodo bird. The thing is that the solution didn't do anything for either side to be happy with. The Pro PVP player and Pro PVE player are at opposite ends and some middle ground just doesn't work in this kind of game. Half measures just haven't cut it here. My personal opinion is one that a Pro-PVP player will never be happy with DW simply because there just isn't a player base to support a healthy PVP "Stand and Deliver" type of game. If we had a hundred players active in the game at any hour with events being kicked off every minute from any town, would not the pro-pvp player be in their Nirvana? Even if they failed to intercept player A leaving BL due to a scout check, they could immediately try again when ready for Player B or Player C. PVP play sucks today because you can sit at your terminal for an hour and maybe only have a couple of events you might be eligible to hit and then its with the same few players you would group scout out of SS from later. That is also untrue... It was never set up the way suggested Here... But never let facts get in the way of opinions ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Jan 20, 2014, 8:12 am

*DoubleTap* The Ghosts Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 895 Joined: Jul 13, 2007 Informal question for folks who are desirous of more PVP- Where are you based? Badlands? If a lot of PVP folks are based in Badlands or points south, then the plan Goat outlined seems to make even more sense, doesn't it? I only ask because now that I'm playing a little more often, I'm moving more assets southwards. That, and this seems to make all sorts of sense, if not for the "original intent," than at least for the real-world economics of subscribers and newbies and vets and Sam and profitability. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Jan 20, 2014, 4:04 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,908 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Bl, shanty and Ss for me. Ss is there for big community events (popular PvP) ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Jan 20, 2014, 5:38 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 I am in ss for the casual friendly training. If pvp was open in BL I would base in BL. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Jan 20, 2014, 5:47 pm

Ragnak Ragnaks Reavers Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: Jul 7, 2010 goat starer said: Ragnak said: Bigspenner said: An entertaining conversation for a while between Goat and Alec above but I believe the following would give everyone a fair slice of the action they want. No, it doesn't and it hasn't. As Burke pointed out, it was implemented that way, run for some time and then put to a vote whether to keep it and its now gone the way of the dodo bird. The thing is that the solution didn't do anything for either side to be happy with. The Pro PVP player and Pro PVE player are at opposite ends and some middle ground just doesn't work in this kind of game. Half measures just haven't cut it here. My personal opinion is one that a Pro-PVP player will never be happy with DW simply because there just isn't a player base to support a healthy PVP "Stand and Deliver" type of game. If we had a hundred players active in the game at any hour with events being kicked off every minute from any town, would not the pro-pvp player be in their Nirvana? Even if they failed to intercept player A leaving BL due to a scout check, they could immediately try again when ready for Player B or Player C. PVP play sucks today because you can sit at your terminal for an hour and maybe only have a couple of events you might be eligible to hit and then its with the same few players you would group scout out of SS from later. That is also untrue... It was never set up the way suggested Here... But never let facts get in the way of opinions Absolutely true but never let reality get in the way of your fantasy..... Everything South of Gateway was PVP open no matter your flag status. Here's some links of some of the discussion at the time - thread 1 thread 2 ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 20, 2014, 6:26 pm Last edited Jan 20, 2014, 6:46 pm by Ragnak

*Bigspenner* Brassicas Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 546 Joined: Sep 17, 2008 In PVP are we basically missing part of the problem. Could the reason PVP isn't happening a lot be because the players who are pvp on sit around waiting for someone to ambush. If they are all waiting to intercept, who is going to be intercepted? In which case are not squad challenges the right way to do it? ......................... vet wv combatL1 deathrceL1 paintladder slay2013 pvp4 gwextrav pvp3 marshal pvp2 pvp1 pvp5 paintball e2g Posted Jan 20, 2014, 10:35 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Pretty sure only BL was open...it was the only open town other than Shanty at the time. I did not test others thou...but sam only made Bl open. Also goat has seen far more changes to pvp than you have. Once upon a time there was completely open pvp with absolutely no flag. We never had so many players in the lobby as back them. I am also sick of the made up lies that the liars believe themselves..but forgive goat for missing one of the numerous waste of time pvp changes. All were a complete waste of Sam's time. I am content to just leave it busted as I am certain no change to pvp intercepts will be satisfactory to anyone currently playing this game. The simple and complete truth is...nothing was wrong with pvp from the very first day sam rolled out this fkin game and feel very stupid for participating in fighting any change after that first one...which was a downward and decadent path we will never be able to correct. Take intercepts completely out of this game and be done with these waste of time changes and discussions. I eagerly hope that dw2 will provide meaningful pvp and sam has the guts to tell you carebears to go play another fkin hello kitty whack a mole collect the toys b.s and let us kill eachother like civilized gamers. We PLAY a GAME we do not care if our "work" in it is destroyed. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,98,31 Posted Jan 20, 2014, 10:39 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 I've stayed out of this for the most part this time. but this is getting to be a big "blah blah blah" thread saying nothing (mostly). When I joined about a year and a half ago, PvP was Open anywhere south of GW. However anything in the northern triangle was governed by the flag. From what I read, This first flag system was implemented because: Most people were based in SS due to there being more town events. Thus, most PvP players were also there. Since fewer things happened south of GW, placing a Flag system allowed the Pro-PvP players to PvP where the bulk of their gang was located. Intending to provide MORE PvP. Upon joining I was threatened and bullied in a few very ineffective ways resulting in 4 to 5 months time spent shoving Heavy Rockets into people breaches or throwing races just to red or threaten to red Veteran players when they threw races just to gun me down for fun. (ie: Ignoring the AI entirely and only chasing me!) A lot of this was done in the League races and I now realize it was intended to squash a person's point standing more than it being a vindictive Shark-Move. Most of these "rivalrys" either ended with mutual respect or a friendship. Yes some people threatened to red my gang out. repeatedly. (red them repeatedly, as well as repeatedly told me they would). But my gang was all noobs so I didn't care. Yes some people put hits on me. in one case I was hit 12 times in 2 days but took no losses and didn't even know I got hit until a week later. Those people are gone. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jan 20, 2014, 10:59 pm Last edited Jan 20, 2014, 11:42 pm by StCrispin

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 I consider myself Pro-PvP however there is a lot of variations in what "Pro-PvP" Players want. One of the greatest factors steering people away from PvP is the gap in ganger skill. I understand and agree with both sides of the argument. you should be able to use your god-gangers. But if you are fighting someone training no spec noob gangers, that's terribly imbalanced even considering a skilled player's ability to use terrain to mitigate the skill gap. The current flag system of totally on or totally off means you cant be PvP on without risking an SS intercept. Which leads to another factor steering people away: the fact that many people train their newhires in SS. It is disheartening to take out 3 to 5 cars full of gangers who's combined skill at gunnery wouldn't even amount to 50% of the interceptor's gangers skill at picking his butt while driving! a 15 skill gunner vs a 280 skill gunner isn't much fun. Except maybe the joy of fighting to the death so all the loot is ruined... So you cant PvP without risking a "Gank" type encounter which many people feel, borders on griefing. This does happen. 3 newly subbed players quit over this when the flag system was changed last time. Is there a solution to the PvP Debate that EVERYONE would be happy with? I don't think so. Our likes and dislikes are quite varied. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jan 20, 2014, 11:21 pm Last edited Jan 20, 2014, 11:32 pm by StCrispin

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 What would I feel comfortable with? I've had a few suggestions in the past and all were met with varied amounts of either "This is brilliant" or "this is total stupidity and I'll quit if it is implemented" responses from the Pro-PvP group. so they don't make everyone happy, that's a given. But here are a few for you to mull over: 1... have a constantly running wilderness event that people can enter and exit at will with their PvP squads. Basically a persistent wilderness PvP Arena. This allows you to enter it in your "PvP gear" which could be something light or even something big. CR NOT factored into it, Enter at your own RISK! With some benefit or prize based on damage dealt, demos, blues, reds, and tabulated/reset every 4 hours or so. Sam liked this, so did a few others. (I think this planted a seed in his head for DW2 being like League of Legends since this began a debate about realtime or rapid turns in an event like this) The people who disliked it cited the fact that it would be a server hog, and that someone who had 4 hours to grind it over and over would have the highest score, or if it was averaged, then it would limit the players who would play it once they got a good score. 2... Flag each individual squad on or off. this way you could protect a training squad, but still PvP in a skilled group. this was seen as being a lot of work. Mostly disliked by the Pro-Intercept group. But liked by the Pro-Casual-PvP branch. 3... Factor Ganger skill into CR balancing. Or at least Specs. Some have called this a GR - Ganger Rating. I know Joel is against this. I know at some point it is very limiting to try to find gangers of a certain skill level (low) as well as it making things much more complicated for the interceptor. I have mixed feelings on this that have changed over time. 4... Allow "Call for Help" when outgunned or out skilled. Using this feature any Player who chose to join the event with a car. It would be limited to something maneuverable and believably a "Quick Reaction Force" type of responder. Such as limiting it to Muscles. this could lead to epic battles where many players join an event on all sides or even on their own side. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jan 21, 2014, 12:16 am

Groovelle Load Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 762 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 1. Would be a blast to run couriers through. 2. I don't favour as much but could work. 3. Would be interesting 4. Would be fun as hell. Imagine everyone online jumping in to an ever-escalating fight. I wouldn't PVP heavies but I'd but a couple landies in that. ......................... vet wv0,2,0 Posted Jan 21, 2014, 12:46 am Last edited Jan 21, 2014, 12:47 am by Groovelle

Pages: << prev 1, 2, 3, 4 next >>

Powered by MercuryBoard [v1.1.4]
© 2001-2005 The Mercury Development Team

0.142 seconds - 24 queries - 1.35 load