Crazy AL Posted Aug 14, 2009, 8:17 pm	I feel the Motivator specialism should work in a camp as well as a town. I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't and if the ganger really is a good motivator it should work in a camp as well as a town.
metrocube Posted Aug 14, 2009, 9:51 pm	Okay, y'all know that Motivator adds 0.05 to the training multiplier, right? a Level-5 monitivator adds 0.25 to the training multiplier. It's already a miniscule effect in towns that have training centers. It would be completely insignificant at a camp. I think what you want, Al, is the ability construct training centers in a camp. The reason why gangsters at a camp don't train well isn't because they aren't motivated, but because they isn't anyone to train them. Motivators are not trainers.
simonmaxhill Posted Aug 14, 2009, 10:16 pm	This is definitely why I've been taking "Combat Psychologist" a lot more often.
*jimmylogan* Posted Aug 14, 2009, 10:19 pm	simonmaxhill said: This is definitely why I've been taking "Combat Psychologist" a lot more often. Same here - I use the ones with leadership in the field and in events, so I want some benefit EVERY time. Diff'rent Strokes...
Dr Mathias Posted Aug 14, 2009, 10:44 pm	VADER You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I'm here to put you back on schedule. JERJERROD I assure you, Lord Vader, my men are working as fast as they can. VADER Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them. JERJERROD I tell you, this station will be operational as planned. VADER The Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation. JERJERROD But he asks the impossible. I need more men. VADER Then perhaps you can tell him when he arrives. JERJERROD The Emperor's coming here? VADER That is correct, Commander. And he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress. JERJERROD We shall double our efforts!
*jimmylogan* Posted Aug 14, 2009, 11:14 pm	You and I must think alike Doc cause every time someone uses the term "motivator" I usually hear James Earl Jones' "motivate." Then sometimes I hear Luke's whiny "this one has a bad motivator - look."
Procyon Posted Aug 15, 2009, 1:09 am	metrocube said: Okay, y'all know that Motivator adds 0.05 to the training multiplier, right? a Level-5 monitivator adds 0.25 to the training multiplier. It's already a miniscule effect in towns that have training centers. It would be completely insignificant at a camp. I think what you want, Al, is the ability construct training centers in a camp. The reason why gangsters at a camp don't train well isn't because they aren't motivated, but because they isn't anyone to train them.  Motivators are not trainers. There is an important distinction that makes motivators *very* effective.  Motivators add .05 to *training form*.  Training form is the training multiplier you are interested in, is clamped between 0.4 and 2.0 and varies naturally by 0.3 up or down week to week.  So, a level 1 motivator will have all members of a town vary their multipliers form -0.25 to +0.35.  A level 5 motivator will have the training form vary from -0.05 to +0.25.  A level 6 motivator ensures training form can NEVER decrease and will eventually be capped at 2.0. So, in essence, until training form caps at high or low, the motivator's bonus is *cumulative* week after week.  The first week a character spends with a motivator, they get 5% more training than they otherwise would.  The second week they get 10% more, and so on.  With sustained interaction with a motivator, they eventually in some cases receiving a 500% training bonus over what they would have without a motivator.* It's critical that you get gangers interacting with motivators early in their career.  League training bonus is equivalent to a level 3 motivator. * The simple scenario is: Character receives a steady -0.03 drop in training form per week.  Motivator level 1 in town turns this into a +0.02 gain.  After 50 weeks, character without motivator is earning only 40% of their training bonus, but character with level 1 motivator is earning 200% of their training bonus.  This is a five fold gain.
Groove Champion Posted Aug 15, 2009, 2:19 am	How do you all know this?!?!
Procyon Posted Aug 15, 2009, 4:18 am	Groove Champion said: How do you all know this?!?! Isn't it obvious?
Crazy AL Posted Aug 15, 2009, 5:56 am	procyon112 said: metrocube said: Okay, y'all know that Motivator adds 0.05 to the training multiplier, right? a Level-5 monitivator adds 0.25 to the training multiplier. It's already a miniscule effect in towns that have training centers. It would be completely insignificant at a camp. I think what you want, Al, is the ability construct training centers in a camp. The reason why gangsters at a camp don't train well isn't because they aren't motivated, but because they isn't anyone to train them.  Motivators are not trainers. There is an important distinction that makes motivators *very* effective.  Motivators add .05 to *training form*.  Training form is the training multiplier you are interested in, is clamped between 0.4 and 2.0 and varies naturally by 0.3 up or down week to week.  So, a level 1 motivator will have all members of a town vary their multipliers form -0.25 to +0.35.  A level 5 motivator will have the training form vary from -0.05 to +0.25.  A level 6 motivator ensures training form can NEVER decrease and will eventually be capped at 2.0. So, in essence, until training form caps at high or low, the motivator's bonus is *cumulative* week after week.  The first week a character spends with a motivator, they get 5% more training than they otherwise would.  The second week they get 10% more, and so on.  With sustained interaction with a motivator, they eventually in some cases receiving a 500% training bonus over what they would have without a motivator.* It's critical that you get gangers interacting with motivators early in their career.  League training bonus is equivalent to a level 3 motivator. * The simple scenario is: Character receives a steady -0.03 drop in training form per week.  Motivator level 1 in town turns this into a +0.02 gain.  After 50 weeks, character without motivator is earning only 40% of their training bonus, but character with level 1 motivator is earning 200% of their training bonus.  This is a five fold gain. Ok, what he said... And now I want it in camp even more.
metrocube Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:07 pm	procyon112 said: Motivators add .05 to *training form*.  Training form is the training multiplier you are interested in, is clamped between 0.4 and 2.0 and varies naturally by 0.3 up or down week to week.  So, a level 1 motivator will have all members of a town vary their multipliers form -0.25 to +0.35.  A level 5 motivator will have the training form vary from -0.05 to +0.25.  A level 6 motivator ensures training form can NEVER decrease and will eventually be capped at 2.0. Proc, I'm glad you read the code; I was misremembering it. Thanks for the correction! I think characters in max training form in a camp earn between 1-2 points a week from training.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:23 pm	Has Sam confirmed these figures somewhere
Joel Autobaun Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:46 pm	Yes, it was quite a rare post giving the mechanics of Sponsors and motivator bonuses.
Procyon Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:50 pm	Sam posted some code in a bug report a while back, and these were the figures and the logic I was able to glean from it. Figures we don't know: base increase in trained skill town bonus training center bonus training decay as cap approached It is my assumption that these 3 numbers make up the base number that then gets multiplied by the training form. another important point is that Motivator is cumulative with league bonus. So winning a league with a lvl 2 motivator makes him a level 5 motivator for 1 season.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:59 pm	Ah so a little assumption is used
Procyon Posted Aug 15, 2009, 7:18 pm	*Grograt* said: Ah so a little assumption is used The only real assumption in my original post is that the code Sam sheared hasn't changed since he shared it   The mechanics are the same.  We know how training form works, how motivators effect it and all the numbers involved there.  We don NOT know what the *base* training number that training form is getting applied to is. If someone wants to figure it out:  Get 3 new recruits, untalented.  ! with driver 20.  Park them with a level 6 motivator in summerset for 8 weeks training one of their low skills.  Then, have the 1) driving character train driving outside of the training facility.  2) Train another character in his level 20 non driving skill without using the training facility. 3) Train a 3rd in his non driver level 20 skill in the training facility. Then perform these calculations: 1) Character 2's gain minus 20 then divided by 2 is the "base" training bonus all characters get. 2) Character 1's gain minus 20, divided by 2, and then subtract Calculation 1 is the bonus that towns give in their specialization. 3) Character 3's gain minus 20, divided by 2 and subtract Calculation 1 is the bonus that training facilities offer. 4) Continue to train character 2, and perform calculation 1 until character caps.  Graph calculation 1 week over week and you will easily see the training decay as character approaches cap. We would then have all the numbers we need to see exactly how a character will train before he does it except for his training form.  You could, however figure out the character's training form number by dividing the gain a character should have gotten by the gain he did get which would give you his training gain for next week within 60%
Joel Autobaun Posted Aug 15, 2009, 7:37 pm	procyon112 said: another important point is that Motivator is cumulative with league bonus. So winning a league with a lvl 2 motivator makes him a level 5 motivator for 1 season. Only for the sponsored skill.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Aug 15, 2009, 7:44 pm	I myself dont like seeing the numbers crunched
Procyon Posted Aug 15, 2009, 8:11 pm	Yeah, I'm not too interested in what the bases are, as it's not going to change play style. The important things to glean, IMHO are: 1) Motivators matter in a big way. It's a very useful skill. 2) If you park a character with a motivator for 1 week and don't see any difference... that's normal. Motivators work over time. 3) Exposure to a motivator will improve a character for *seasons* not just for the week he's with the motivator. Given the life span of most characters, it's almost permanent. 4) League training bonus are HUGE. Given that they last 12 weeks and the effect is damn near permanent....
metrocube Posted Aug 17, 2009, 8:23 pm	*Grograt* said: I myself dont like seeing the numbers crunched  Then close your eyes! :-)