*sam* Posted Feb 7, 2009, 4:00 pm	* Town-event entry can now be made from within the game client (when you click the Register button) * You can now also tweak tyre pressure, suspension and armour in stock cars in town events. Any feedback on the effect of tyre pressure changes are particularly welcome.. also I’m unsure whether moving weapons in stock cars is a good idea as it could give too much advantage over the NPCs? * The suspension tweaks might help with start-line bridge problems on the joust track.. again, any feedback on this would be welcome (this is a precursor to the darkwind sandbox functionality, which I want to make fully gameclient-controlled rather than website)
Marrkos Posted Feb 7, 2009, 4:35 pm	Any chance of making the registration window bigger?  Seems very cramped. Very cool even with the smallish window, though!
*Lugal* Posted Feb 7, 2009, 7:14 pm	*sam* said: * You can now also tweak tyre pressure, suspension and armour in stock cars in town events.
Mad Mike Posted Feb 8, 2009, 12:10 am	yes, very cramped. any chance to making it the same size window that your resolution is set to? also make co driver default to none, I believe most do not use co drivers unless in combats with extra gunner
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Feb 8, 2009, 5:35 am	This is good stuff. Now that we have control over such things can a stock vehicle be set to have less armor than those which it races against, and if so, will that make it lighter and, therefore, faster?
*viKKing* Posted Feb 8, 2009, 3:06 pm	The principle of stock cars is that all competitors are racing the same unmodified vehicles. Doesn't make sense to me to add this option for this kind of races. It would for pro and custom events though.
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Feb 8, 2009, 3:27 pm	Quote: The principle of stock cars is that all competitors are racing the same unmodified vehicles. Doesn't make sense to me to add this option for this kind of races. Despite the tone of my previous post, I agree with this statement. When I found that I could change my armor loadout I was surprised for just that reason. I then went on to make it work for me by adding a heap of rear armor in a front-mounted weapon deathrace. . . and won. But you're right. Stock cars should be identical save for minor tweaks or tune-ups. The question, then, is which category does armor shifting fall under? A minor tweak or a difference big enough to make the car non-stock? There's good news and bad news here. Bad: It can decrease the need for one to be a great racer if they can find a way to make up for their lack of skill through changing their car. Good: It may be able to help alleviate the one-track mind of deathracers who stand behind the crowd and fire by allowing them to stack up their rear armor and try to stay in the crowd until they can pull ahead, etc. Food for thought, I guess. I haven't quite decided which side I agree with more.
Alocalypse Posted Feb 8, 2009, 3:39 pm	I'd much rather see this on your own vehicles too and done via the website and so you can have vehicle design specific settings (but this is probably already in the works). I'm not against having it on stock cars, since figuring out the right settings for a track/car becomes a fun challenge and gives veterans a chance to earn an additional advantage over newbies (I know not everyone will like this). I'd also like to see more tweakable settings like seperate front/rear suspension/pressure settings and downforce (maybe only for racer type cars) and gearbox ratios because I'm into this sort of micromanagement EDIT: Quote: Bad: It can decrease the need for one to be a great racer if they can find a way to make up for their lack of skill through changing their car. The settings probably won't change things *that* much. Even if it did, it might be a good thing since it's possible to be good in different ways. I'd also argue that any skilled racer would desperatley want to mess with the settings to get even faster times.
Marrkos Posted Feb 8, 2009, 4:19 pm	viKKing said: The principle of stock cars is that all competitors are racing the same unmodified vehicles. Doesn't make sense to me to add this option for this kind of races. Quote: There's nothing stock about a stock car.
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Feb 8, 2009, 4:50 pm	I've got no arguments against tire or suspension settings; those would be very commonly altered to a racer's taste in any stock car league. The armor shifting is the only thing that I think might be crossing the line. I'm all for tire and suspension tweaks. . . just a little too nervous to mess with them much, currently.
Bytten Posted Feb 8, 2009, 4:58 pm	I agree. I may never tweak the suspension more than once or twice but rearranging armour and weapons is going a bit far. Quite apart from anything else, a reasonably balanced stock car is a good tutor for new players - don't bamboozle them with lots of settings! Save armour/weapon things for semi-professional events, perhaps?
Bytten Posted Feb 8, 2009, 6:17 pm	Okay, I just ran a DR with some suspension modifications. I'm not really the calibre of driver you need for proper research but I can say that turning corners at speed in a Marley with overinflated tyres and boosted suspension is... tricky. If it does get into a turn, it can overcompensate and become hard to get straight again. What is the expected effect of tyre/suspension tweaks? What should be happening?
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Feb 8, 2009, 7:30 pm	Put into its vaguest terms and assuming that all things equal real-world-esque equivalents, here's what I know: Higher tire inflation means potential for faster top speeds but more difficult turning and might make you bouncier through bumps, lower would do just the opposite. Harder suspension will make your car a bit more difficult to steer due to the fact that the tires are likely to bounce off of the surface of the track a bit more frequently, softer suspension will turn you sharper, but may lead to more spinouts or even a bottoming out of the car. Lengthening the suspension will exaggerate any effects that the suspension is causing and vice-versa. Hope this is helpful. I must reiterate that this is an incredibly simplistic take on these things, and there are a hundred other factors which I'm probably not considering.
Marrkos Posted Feb 8, 2009, 7:51 pm	Vehicle customization Modify as necessary.
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Feb 8, 2009, 8:02 pm	Thanks, Marrkos. Gee, if I wasn't already a published writer I'd feel like one now. ;-)
*sam* Posted Feb 9, 2009, 10:04 am	The main thinking behind the armour changing was to give extra options for more experienced players, as alo suggests. I can see that in certain situations it can make too much difference - e.g. the front-mounted DR example. Maybe the ability to switch armour needs to be reduced in (some?) (all?) circumstances.. e.g. so you can only change each side by a max of say 4 points. In terms of the effect that tyre/suspension tweaks are *supposed* to have - actually, I'm not 100% sure. These are variables that exist in the game engine which clearly have *some* influence over handling, but I didn't code most of the vehicle handling stuff. That's why I asked for feedback about these effects.. letting you tweak between 75% and 125% seemed reasonable. I doubt if the effects will be unbalancing, and most likely will give considerable tactical variability depending on the exact track and its surface type.
*Ninesticks* Posted Feb 9, 2009, 10:56 am	Limiting the amount of armour that can be shifted seems reasonable to reflect pre-event tinkering time. As an aside you could set an amount of time available for tinkering and allocate a time cost for each change - might help create difficult choices for those who want the extra challenge.
Valiance Posted Feb 9, 2009, 11:02 am	I would point out that this makes Pro events even more disadvantaged. You have to have your car ready for a Pro event 15 minutes before the event. Changing armour costs money and time. Yet in stock events, all the flexibility is quicker, faster and cheaper. Overall, I am not in favour of changs which advantage experienced players over inexperienced players in stock events (I hate the Jumpstart specialism for precisely that reason). I also hate tweaking suspension and tyre pressure, but that's just because I don't understand anything about cars. So, I'm not a fan of these changes like viKKIng, and I would prefer to see them have minimal effects. Specifically, I agree that the shifting of armour should be limited to only a few points (and I can see lots of cars with 1 point top and bottom and lots on the sides)
darthspanky Posted Feb 9, 2009, 11:53 am	if it helps arl and makes people complain then im all for it. even tho ill never use it cause i suck at racing
Alocalypse Posted Feb 9, 2009, 12:04 pm	Another option would be to make changing armor cost - if you mess with the armor settings you will lose 25% of your total armor. (Maybe disable it entirely for races though)
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Feb 9, 2009, 12:57 pm	Quote: (I hate the Jumpstart specialism for precisely that reason). Do people actually win directly because of this specialism? In my experience the effect is so minimal as to be nullified by anything from starting position to a couple of feet of extra drifting around a turn. I lost my jumpstarter about a week ago in a deathrace. Since then, it hasn't been her specialism that I miss, but her pretty face. It seems that the new guy is just as capable at racing, despite his sub-40 ability. But to the topic at hand. . . finding a way to make armor shifting largely undesirable (such as through Alo's suggestion) makes this driver think it just as prudent to remove the ability to do it entirely. Limiting its use to a few points is helpful, but may make it an uncommon occurrence due to its lack of usefulness. The solution? I don't know. This is a tricky one. Tire pressure and suspension tweaking are, again, absolutely acceptable in my book.
Mad Mike Posted Feb 9, 2009, 3:17 pm	race cars have suspension tweaking on the fly so thats ok.. tire pressure can be done right away armor placing could be there are hundreds of stock cars available to choose from from all types of configurations for armor, so someone could find a car with the armor of their choice immediately before the race.
Shark Posted Feb 9, 2009, 11:41 pm	Wow this is an awesome update! Puts a lot of strategy back into the game.
*sam* Posted Feb 10, 2009, 12:25 am	Hang on for "Darkwind: Tactical" shark, I reckon you'll find people willing to pvp then
4saken Posted Feb 10, 2009, 11:53 pm	i am not big on the armor changing thing. seems unecessary at best. love the suspension tweaks tho it will take some time before i manage anything useful with them. would love to see some kind of front/rear bias adjustment, tho. also i think it is a very bad idea putting stuff on the wiki that is purely conjectural without some form of caveat, at least something like "should" or "could possibly". citation needed!
DirkStiletto Posted Feb 11, 2009, 12:08 am	I'm big on the armor changing thing. However, I'm not sure if it worked when I tried it. The website still showed the original stats for the car my team was using. In a deathrace I know I'm not going to get into the lead would call for more front armor, one where I want to lead will need more rear protection, and any race with dropped solids needs more undercarriage protection on the bottom. Makes a lot of sense to me, as I used to load the armor based on my strategy. I'll pay attention to it next time, but I'm less sure on the suspension tweaks, mostly because I'm not sure how they would normally contribute to the handling. I'll try some real-world research... ;-)
*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 11, 2009, 12:51 am	4saken said: also i think it is a very bad idea putting stuff on the wiki that is purely conjectural without some form of caveat, at least something like "should" or "could possibly". citation needed! What exactly are you talking about? I edit things from time to time as well... And of course you can add this yourself. JL
Marrkos Posted Feb 11, 2009, 2:38 am	4saken said: also i think it is a very bad idea putting stuff on the wiki that is purely conjectural without some form of caveat, at least something like "should" or "could possibly". citation needed! Quote: A wiki is a page or collection of Web pages designed to enable anyone who accesses it to contribute or modify content (emphasis added)
*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2009, 11:02 am	Quote: However, I'm not sure if it worked when I tried it. The website still showed the original stats for the car my team was using. Yeah, the website doesn't actually reflect the settings. I'll take a look at that. The gameserver definitely does though. Quote: i am not big on the armor changing thing Could be that we need a vote? There seems to be a mix of people in favour/against. Possibly a middle-ground where you can only adjust by 2-3 points per side?
Manx Bartlet Posted Feb 11, 2009, 5:35 pm	It seems reasonable to me to have the ability to change any given piece of armor +-2ish points. Just enough variability to make it able to save you in a tight spot, but not so much as to unbalance things.
*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2009, 6:48 pm	Yeah, I'll create a poll on this.
Shark Posted Feb 13, 2009, 7:33 am	Maybe we should try it out for a month or so, see what we think and what it changes before voting on it at least....
4saken Posted Feb 14, 2009, 4:26 pm	NOTE: when making a custom or ladder event it says "your event has been made click here to enter" should be changed to "click here to enter or register through the game client to use suspension modifications" or somesuch.