Per-Town and Per-NPC-Gang Reputation
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*sam* Posted Nov 18, 2008, 12:59 pm |
I'd like to do some brainstorming on how per-town reputation and per-NPC-gang reputation should affect the game. It seems to be a feature that most people like the idea of, and now would be a good time to think about what exactly it would mean.
Some initial ideas: * If you have very low rep. in a town you could get town entry encounters from local militia. In extreme circumstances you could even be blocked from entering the town and be attacked by its gate defences (--this is a feature I'm hoping to add soon: HMG bunkers near town gates, operated by the town guards) * If you have very high rep. in a town you could find that the gate defences helped you when you were fighting nearby * If an NPC gang really disliked you they could order assassination hits on you. They would also tend to attack you in preference to other people when in combat. They could also enter arena combats/deathraces with the intention of attcking you * If an NPC gang really liked you, they would always agree to truces |
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*Tinker* Posted Nov 18, 2008, 2:38 pm |
1) What would make an NPC gang like you? (pirate or otherwise)
2) Why would an NPC hate you? a) Killing off their drivers in races/DRs/combats after they have resigned? b) Constantly attacking the same Pirates/traders, and also blood-thirstily killing them, especially at gates encounters? 3) In a DR would the Bounty hunter turn around to attack you? |
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*Longo* Posted Nov 18, 2008, 3:43 pm |
Im thinking-
If you bribe them they will obviously like you more If you do a trader escort thats going to supply their gang in whatever city, they will like you. You sell them gear/cars/guns (maybe weave this in to a new type of economy you free their gangers from FL prison |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Nov 18, 2008, 3:48 pm |
Sam,
I like it - my thoughts... Per town rep would be based on their actions "from" that town, right? As far as scouting, etc. ? Chasing traders from Elms but killing Pirates in SS would cause negative rep in Elms & Positive in SS, right? That being the case - I like the "town defenses" thing in a gates encounter with high rep. As for low rep and the "town defenses" attacking you, I agree, but also wonder if it should be like FL in that if you're negative rep then you can't "escape into the city limits?" Or is that what you meant by being blocked from entering? Would you not be able to enter at all? (Not a bad idea for extremely low rep - would add to the RL aspect in that low rep Trader Hunters can't easily bring that Lorry back to town to sell to another player...) I like the idea of NPC gangs liking/disliking you... I would think this would be based on your combat with that gang - letting them escape, killing them to red, etc. I like the idea of them targeting you in a multi-gang scout. I don't do as much racing/deathracing, but I can see this being a factor as well... For those that race/DR only, I don't know that it would affect them as much, so there should be no complaints there. JL |
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Mad Mike Posted Nov 18, 2008, 5:27 pm |
town rep would be nice but at this time all towns are looked at as good with FL the only evil town. scouting FL is a mess and very unfriendly and just almost impossible. The very low neg rep players would be punished by this move if all the towns except firelight banned them.
Could badlands be a neg rep player friendly place? gateway nuetral with elms and somerset for high rep players |
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*Lugal* Posted Nov 18, 2008, 5:53 pm |
That would likely just encourage people to be "bad" if they wanted to hit the harder towns for better gear / training. Perhaps instead have Somerset and Elmfield positive (as you said), the two truckstops being neutral (contested territory, if you will), and Firelight negative. Gateway and Badlands are more or less in the center of the map, anyway. I assume this would mean for ALL NPC gangs? I have a special hatred for Dirge and DPU from town events, and I wouldn't mind if they knew that. I'm really excited about seeing this moving closer! |
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*Longo* Posted Nov 18, 2008, 6:04 pm |
I agree on SS as Good, FL as Bad, and GW as Neutral. But BL and Elms I'm just not sure... they are my two favorite scout areas I have to say... | ||||
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Whiskey Posted Nov 18, 2008, 6:18 pm |
Negative rep players could "bribe" the town militia to allow the neg rep player to enter a "good" town. Positive rep players would need to pay a "toll/ransom" to enter a "bad" town.
Expand the towns to provide more variations? You have the Marketplace but you also have the Black Market? You have the bar where the good folk hang out, and you have the bar where the drug lords and pirates hang out? Jake's vs. "The Grease Pit?" |
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*Longo* Posted Nov 18, 2008, 7:27 pm |
I think even more importantly, we have to ask ourselves - What is Good, and what is Bad? Pirates - Bad, Traders - Good? or do we totally revamp this whole system? | ||||
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*Tinker* Posted Nov 18, 2008, 9:43 pm |
I know of at least one bad trader gang in elms, wonder what happens to your fame if you hunt them? |
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Dr Mathias Posted Nov 18, 2008, 9:55 pm |
If it hasn't been implemented yet, scouting from camps will get around some of the problems presented. If one wants to hunt Elms traders, he can do it from his hideout. True, he couldn't then sell his captured lorry in Elms, but that makes sense.
When Jesse James robbed a town's bank, he didn't stay there to spend the money. He went somewhere else, where he was viewed as a hero of the people, a sort of Robin Hood. Merchants in the towns where he spent money would view him positively. At its best, town specific rep will help get rid of the silly good/bad duality we have now. Players can decide where they want to be viewed as badguys, good guys, or a mix of both. Morality in a post-apoc setting is, in my mind, mostly a murky shade of gray. EDIT: I like the idea of bribing the towns guards to get into a town that is unhappy with you. Could be a good money sink. I wouldn't mind seeing NPC pirates asking you to pay a toll before combat is engaged. Death or Taxes is a prime example of a gang that should be doing this. The rate can be exorbitant, but it would be a neat option. |
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Mad Mike Posted Nov 18, 2008, 10:42 pm |
elmsfield is described as a vigilante police type system. that would lead to guards being able to be bribed. elmsfield has kind of been the bad town anyway. its a favorite for trader hunting.
if player traders fought off the npc traders and sold the captured goods to the towns people at better prices would they then be considered robin hood? Take from the rich traders and give to the poor townsfolk of elmsfield. I would even tribute alot of loot to elmfield to allow me to hunt traders exclusively. for the time being until more towns are opened lets make elmsfield a player town were the goods are sold by the players to the townsfolk. We could even have a notice in the marketplace telling us what the people need before they turn back to the npc traders. if the players do not keep the townspeople supplyed then they revolt against the players. maybe have a happy to sad scale similar to the pirate scale? a number that tells us what is needed like food water in a camp. If we do not supply the amount needed they start killing the neg rep players trying to come to the town. with this we could actually try the ammo limitations where to scout elmsfield bring your own ammo or buy from another player. I could see alot of possibilities here AND elmsfield could be a test bed for all the other towns, there has been talk of a test server to test different aspects, here we could have a test town... |
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ISHOULDCOCO Posted Nov 18, 2008, 10:49 pm |
I agree with the above. But would also suggest that BL should be corrupt and 'buyable'. Elm might even have a mayorship with each character in town getting a vote on a certain date ? COCO |
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Mad Mike Posted Nov 18, 2008, 10:56 pm |
coco for mayor of elmsfield! | ||||
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darthspanky Posted Nov 19, 2008, 5:36 am |
i dont like ideas about banning players from towns, but maybe we could have town friendly rep give faster repair times, less to live there. loot prices better, they take care of ya better at hospitals, put a training center in each town let rep affect training? more bad rep towns.
a way to get pos or neg rep besides scouting, like doing missions for certain gangs, calling a npc gang to give em left over loot you cant carry to build favor with that gang. paying them directly, i would like to someday to capture npc as well, do ransoms to them or turn them into authorities of towns build rep that way, a way to get a bad rep in fl, how can we do it if theres no traders to attack. we should be equal in benifits to having a good or bad rep. |
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*Longo* Posted Nov 19, 2008, 3:33 pm |
All great ideas Darth...
you off your meds? 
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*Lugal* Posted Nov 19, 2008, 5:19 pm |
Once again, Doc comes out of the shadows with a VERY good point. This has the potential to completely restructure the rep/fame system we have - why not fully embrace that rather than simply expand on the existing dichotomy. With different reps with different gangs, why should we settle for "good towns" and "bad towns"? Could we make various "non-gang" organizations (NGO, hehe) such as Jake's have rep as well? I don't want to overly obfuscate the system, but a full rep system should be an interconnected network. If at all possible, make it so different factions have different reps with each other, so that interacting with group A also affects how B sees you. Maybe hijacking Trader C raises rep with Trader D? Returning rentals raises rep and lowers fees? Selling rares to a vendor raises rep and lowers his prices? (a potential sink for excess rares, too) Create the networks so that towns still have a general "feel", similar to the current positive/negative system. The Somerset factions tend to react negatively to piracy, and vice versa down at Firelight, for example. Maybe the proposed "neutral" towns have weaker or no connections between factions - unless you interfere with them, they don't care what you do to the other guy. |
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Valiance Posted Nov 19, 2008, 9:08 pm |
I love this idea, and Doc is as always really smart.
Have a rep with every major faction (traders, pirates, Dexters, Jakes etc). Those reps can vary with actions, successful missions, selling a lot etc. There should be an interconnected web too - so traders hit often by pirates start to hate those pirates more If a trader gang A, for example, has a positive relationship with Trader gang B, then when you hit Trader Gang A, your rep goes down a lot with A and a little with B. Similarly, if you hit a pirate gang that has been hitting Trader Gang B, then your rep goes down with the pirate gang and up with Trader Gang B. Could we consider having "special prices" in Jakes. "This weapon is available at a discount to you because of your special relationship with Trader Gang A". Could we do the same with pirate gangs - after all, they must sell their loot somewhere. For example, I would love it if this system made the firelight market more attractive (cheaper, more rares etc) And I think, as I always do, that per-gang/town reps and roleplaying missions tie in closely together. So let's do both... |
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darthspanky Posted Nov 19, 2008, 9:41 pm |
maybe players with camps can sell loot in there markets to npc who there good rep with? but would loose rep in the towns there in with other traders? and instead of being about being good or bad its becomes more like who are yer friends and who are yer enemys? | ||||
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*sam* Posted Nov 19, 2008, 9:43 pm |
Good idea darth; that's similar to something alo has been suggesting. | ||||
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Mad Mike Posted Nov 19, 2008, 9:44 pm |
raises an interesting question..
what if all the npc gangs you are in favor with are the only ones huntable at a particular time? you then couldnt hunt the pirate gang you hate. this would mean we should be able to hunt any npc gang regardless of their fame at the time. otherwise we couldnt really scout unless risking running into only gangs that you want to have a positive rep with. |
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Whiskey Posted Nov 19, 2008, 9:49 pm |
Adds a nice level of role play to the equation. Is it more in your interest to attack or offer truce?
I definitely cast my vote with the idea of relative reps. The idea of having a bad rep with Turpins but a good rep with Firelight Manhunters adds some depth to the game. Rather than just going to the marketplace and dealing with the NPC generic, the marketplace could have different NPC gangs offering the same goods at various prices depending on your rep with them. Lot's of possibilities in this. |
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Mad Mike Posted Nov 19, 2008, 9:51 pm |
agreed, I think you have all positive answers sam! | ||||
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darthspanky Posted Nov 20, 2008, 4:18 am |
perhaps we should reconsider how bh work now too. maybe the bh can be contracted by npc gangs who hate you the most. cause this eliminates the ability for pirate players to truce all pirates now too. and show what npc gangs put bounties on yer guys for either failed missions or killing traders or pirates? | ||||
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*Lugal* Posted Nov 20, 2008, 4:43 am |
Also for 'town gangs' using BHs for killing their crews in town events. 
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*Tinker* Posted Nov 20, 2008, 9:42 am |
would be nice to know why you suddenly have a bounty for failing X mission... be nice to get a 1st time warning too | ||||
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*Lugal* Posted Nov 20, 2008, 3:09 pm |
These notices appear in the activities tab of the info page on your gang. It will says something like: 2008-11-09 04:57:22 Failed a mission and had a bounty of $66 offered on your characters' heads Low bounties rarely incur actual attacks from bounty hunters though. |
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4saken Posted Nov 20, 2008, 10:37 pm |
as for rep with individual pirate gangs:
doing "dastardly" deeds lowers their rep with you. examples include gunning down peds and killing characters. "good" deeds include things like not firing on demoed vehicles. a gang will treat you in kind. if you habitually kill their characters and target their peds you can expect the same. however if you're easy on them they will be more likely to do things like not shoot your surrendered vehicles and instead shoot active vehicles first. this rep should gradually degrade back to neutral if you donot fight a gang very often. they will forget your kindness or past discretions over time. however, if you hit them every time you turn around and pass up other gangs to do so (perhaps a ratio of last several scouts could be used), they will surely notice and reciprocate (ie be more likely to ambush you or perhaps set bounties, etc) as an added bonus, there could be heavy neg-rep specific NPC taunts, such as "I've waited a long time for this." just to add a little more flavor. also i think that there should always be an option to bribe/truce gangs, not just in the first couple rounds. the acceptable amount will probably be much higher late in a fight if you are losing. killing a member of the other gang would probably prevent them from accepting a bribe for the rest of the fight. and some gangs would be more predisposed to taking money than others (death or taxes) and the ones that just hate you could probably not be bribed. one option for gangs that really hate you is for them to head-hunt you. rather than just generic fighting, their goal is to kill as many characters as possible, even if they lose. if this sounds mean, it's because it is. revenge is a dish best served cold. i think also that gangs could be outright bribed to improve your rep with them, either to get on their good side or take the edge off their severe hatred of you. this is not the same as a truce. it would be something that is done out of combat. there would be a rep number for how a gang feels about you but we would probably just get some kind of word description like in the market status. for example: good... considers you favorably. decent... feels neutral towards you. average... is wary of you, shows you no favors, etc poor... hates you, has a special loathing for you, etc very poor... has declared war on your gang. |
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4saken Posted Nov 24, 2008, 3:30 am |
also, how a gang feels towards you and the gang itself should be a factor in what happens to your gangers once you surrender or lose. they could either just murder everyone or they could let everyone go (to walk back to town), for instance. then again, we're not given the opportunity to murder survivors yet (which would be handy for bounties). | ||||
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*sam* Posted Nov 24, 2008, 11:40 am |
Aye, true. That'd be one quick way to get a low rep! |
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Dr Mathias Posted Nov 24, 2008, 4:30 pm |
I suggested months ago that having some options regarding defeated enemies would enhance roleplay and also make pvp more viable. You could kill them there, leave them in the wilderness, or even give them a ride back- to be released or turned in for bounty or ransom. Bring em in dead, bounty, bring em in alive... 5-10x normal bounty etc. Lets face it bringing em in dead is easier. Perhaps a new camp buliding could be a brig where you keep captured enemies, pc or npc. |
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Mad Mike Posted Nov 24, 2008, 5:30 pm |
give them a ride back for ransom makes more sense. then we could have a chance to buy back our characters that lost a battle. Right now when they demo they have to walk back. Im sure in this time capturing cars and then making money off ransoming the captured enemy makes snese.
besides, the firelight manhunters do it........ when our characters are captured by the manhunters and taken to firelight arena, will we be able to fight them in the arena for their hopeful release if they survive? |
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G.G. Barfowski Posted Nov 24, 2008, 5:32 pm |
this sounds rad, I'd like to see this happen. A system like the Romans had where a slave could earn his freedom through combat would be very cool to see in Firelight.
Yeah! it takes a lot more vehicle space to transport a group of chained banditos than it does to transport a trunk full of heads or a glove box stuffed with hands. |
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*sam* Posted Nov 24, 2008, 5:39 pm |
Yep, that's the plan. But not only when you lose to the slaver gangs, other low-rep. NPC gangs will sometimes sell you to slavers who then sell you to the arena. |
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*Longo* Posted Nov 24, 2008, 5:51 pm |
And if we encounter the manhunters on teh road hopefully we can free a few slaves/take control of them to sell them back to their owners hehe | ||||
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Whiskey Posted Nov 24, 2008, 6:09 pm |
Lose a battle, get sold to slavers, fight to win your freedom in the arena. That is one tough travel itinerary.
If you manage all of that, would you then have a branch office of your gang in FL? |
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*Longo* Posted Nov 24, 2008, 6:14 pm |
Ill rescue you TKW....for a price.... FL isnt a picnic...
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Whiskey Posted Nov 24, 2008, 6:18 pm |
"My hero!" swoons Tammy Perea, current leader of the Whiskey Runners. | ||||
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Marrkos Posted Nov 24, 2008, 8:58 pm |
Which means our gang members will end up here. |
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Dr Mathias Posted Nov 25, 2008, 1:25 am |
I like the way you think G.G.! |
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*Lugal* Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:37 am |
So would we still have "control" of that character; ie follow them through the experience? |
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*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Nov 25, 2008, 6:18 am |
Just a thought.....
If you hunt traders and cannot gain entrance to 'certiain' towns... HOW would you get AROUND the town in order to travel to another one to sell your ill gotten gains. For instance, Rogues Ridge has only ONE route into the road travel matrix by way of SS. If by some weird chance, I were not allowed entrance into SS, I would be stuck in RR until I gained enough rep to be allowed 'through' town onto the other roads. An 'access' road around SS to elms and gateway would alleviate this kind of problem. IT would cost more fuel and time but my gang would still have access to the other towns. |
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darthspanky Posted Nov 25, 2008, 9:18 am |
perhaps even give a loot map? kinda like a camp map but left over loot from a battle. lets say ya cant transport it all and theres alot there maybe even a few running cars, could get a loot map to drive home, sell it to a salvage type gang who goes to collect it, or use it to give to a friendly npc gang to get to be friendlier rep with them. going to get loot map you could encounter bugs there, survivors near death or ready for revenge, or wanting a ride home, my personal favorite go around in a bus, sure get on hehe suckers yer being sold to fl manhunters or cooked at mcspankys hehe.
other cool camp building ideas could be a mash unit, some sort of headquaters with yer own training center, as well as a jail. |