Darkwind
Engine v.102 Scripts v.212, GUI/usability improvements

*sam*


Posted Oct 11, 2008, 9:24 pm
· Improvements to the interface/usability e.g. targeted vehicles are shown with coloured boxes around them
· You can now left-click a weapon or character icon to select them, then left-click a character or weapon to assign the gunner. You can also left-click a weapon icon then left-click an enemy vehicle/pedestrian to target it.
· When you have a weapon icon highlighted (by clicking it) then its firing arc is shown in the 3D world (if it’s a targeted weapon rather than dropped or melee). I also added a Preference to ‘show all firing arcs on selected vehicle’ without needing to click the weapon icons.
· Vehicles can now become famous. The occupants of a famous vehicle have substantially boosted courage. Fame builds up through use, especially by winning professional events but also from finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd in town events, and for wilderness use. Every time you rename a vehicle, it loses half of its fame.
· Added the Slipstreamer specialism
*Grograt*
gary.r.horder@gmail.com

Posted Oct 11, 2008, 9:49 pm
just love the firing arc and target rectangle, will so help a noob like me ;)
*Tinker*


Posted Oct 11, 2008, 9:51 pm
*sam* said:

· When you have a weapon icon highlighted (by clicking it) then its firing arc is shown in the 3D world (if it’s a targeted weapon rather than dropped or melee). I also added a Preference to ‘show all firing arcs on selected vehicle’ without needing to click the weapon icons.



Is it possible to make the firing arc more transparent, my first impression is that it is way to opaque if you opt to show them at all times
t0rp0r


Posted Oct 11, 2008, 10:47 pm
*sam* said:

· Vehicles can now become famous. The occupants of a famous vehicle have substantially boosted courage. Fame builds up through use, especially by winning professional events but also from finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd in town events, and for wilderness use. Every time you rename a vehicle, it loses half of its fame.


*sigh* If only Hammerhead I lived long enough to see its name in lights. Perhaps Hammerhead II will love up to its big brother's reputation.
*JD_Basher*
jd.basher@charter.net

Posted Oct 11, 2008, 10:51 pm
t0rp0r said:
*sam* said:

· Vehicles can now become famous. The occupants of a famous vehicle have substantially boosted courage. Fame builds up through use, especially by winning professional events but also from finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd in town events, and for wilderness use. Every time you rename a vehicle, it loses half of its fame.


*sigh* If only Hammerhead I lived long enough to see its name in lights. Perhaps Hammerhead II will love up to its big brother's reputation.


How will we be able to tell if a vehicle is becoming famous?.... Will there be additional info on the "vehicle info page" when we click on a car?
Valiance


Posted Oct 11, 2008, 10:53 pm
It will initially be named "The Renowned xxx" - and vehicles which get included in the Evan Vehicle Guide get a one-off fame bonus, so get your designs in!

JD - look out for your lorry design tomorrow (but Sam has to upgrade the fame manually, so may not be instant)
Valiance


Posted Oct 11, 2008, 10:54 pm
Oh, and Sam, the colours seem a bit lurid and very non-gritty - it's all luminous yellow and electric pink. Are there any other palette choices available?
*Ninesticks*


Posted Oct 11, 2008, 10:55 pm
I too found the arcs to be obscuring the vehicle ghost - which can be problematic so would agree with Tinker on that point.
*JD_Basher*
jd.basher@charter.net

Posted Oct 11, 2008, 11:06 pm
Valiance said:
It will initially be named "The Renowned xxx" - and vehicles which get included in the Evan Vehicle Guide get a one-off fame bonus, so get your designs in!

JD - look out for your lorry design tomorrow (but Sam has to upgrade the fame manually, so may not be instant)


Looking forward to it Val...... Thanks!

Also, Sam stated the Fame would increase through use....

*sam* said:

· Vehicles can now become famous. The occupants of a famous vehicle have substantially boosted courage. Fame builds up through use, especially by winning professional events but also from finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd in town events, and for wilderness use. Every time you rename a vehicle, it loses half of its fame.
---------------
I was just wondering if we car owners will have an indicator as how 'famous' our cars are by looking at the car stats.
*Lugal*


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 2:57 am
This is wonderful news to follow an exhausting day at work!

Drooling with anticipation!
Alocalypse


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 8:11 am
Really happy to see all that stuff :)

Quote:
· When you have a weapon icon highlighted (by clicking it) then its firing arc is shown in the 3D world (if it’s a targeted weapon rather than dropped or melee). I also added a Preference to ‘show all firing arcs on selected vehicle’ without needing to click the weapon icons.


I think that should be hover instead of click and and there should be a "always show only manned weapons firing arcs" option aswell.
Alocalypse


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 8:14 am
You can target without facing an enemy and it really needs the descriptive text to help beginners work out what to do better.

It should probably say assign target or something else when you click on an already manned weapon.
*Grograt*
gary.r.horder@gmail.com

Posted Oct 12, 2008, 10:27 am
Valiance said:
Oh, and Sam, the colours seem a bit lurid and very non-gritty - it's all luminous yellow and electric pink. Are there any other palette choices available?


I agree with this one, they detract slightly from the look of the game and genre itself, user defined palette would be cool


*Ninesticks*  said:
I too found the arcs to be obscuring the vehicle ghost - which can be problematic so would agree with Tinker on that point.


The arc seems to sit half way up the vehicle, can it be dropped down so as not to obscure the ghost

Still think these new implementations are excellent


*sam*


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 10:39 am
Quote:
I was just wondering if we car owners will have an indicator as how 'famous' our cars are by looking at the car stats.


No, it's a hidden value at the moment. I could perhaps add an extra indicator when the car is becoming "somewhat renowned"..

Quote:
It should probably say assign target or something else when you click on an already manned weapon.


I just made that change, thanks for the suggestion alo. I also got rid of a bug that "apparently none of you noticed" that was allowing you to target and fire on the same turn.  :rolleyes:

With regard to the bright colours (and opacity): if they were more dull or transparent they could be hard to see. They weren't really intended to be displayed all the time (although admittedly an option does allow you to do that). Part of the thinking is also that GUI components rendered into the world are done in bright colours to make them stand out from the "real world" stuff - they are essentially HUD info..

I could make the weapons colours customisable..

You may have noticed that the targeting lines and names of teh weapons on their icons have also been correctly colour-coded now. Also in the Occupants panel the assigned weapon below a character portrait is colour coded.

Quote:
The arc seems to sit half way up the vehicle, can it be dropped down so as not to obscure the ghost


The issue here is that if it were lower it would be much more likely to go below the terrain due to bumps and hills, and therefore be invisible. It's currently rendered as a single triangle.. to lower it would be rendering it as a larger number of triangles, each conforming to the terrain. Well I guess I could do that... I'm just being anal about polygon count as usual...

Alocalypse


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 11:08 am
Quote:
With regard to the bright colours (and opacity): if they were more dull or transparent they could be hard to see.


You could probably get away with less contrasting colors if you animated the targeting lines to draw attention to them.

I think the targeting boxes around the cars don't look so good and you should either try to use a lighting effect to highlight them which is a bit more sublime or the circle thing you have around cars (the size of which can also be used to indicate how likely you are to hit)
Capt. Zeppo


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 6:35 pm
Alocalypse said:

I think the targeting boxes around the cars don't look so good and you should either try to use a lighting effect to highlight them which is a bit more sublime or the circle thing you have around cars (the size of which can also be used to indicate how likely you are to hit)


I like the look of the targeting boxes. They have a very '80's Vector Graphics sort of look that is appealing (at least to me). They get your attention. I don't want subtlety, I want to know at a glance which cars I have targeted with which weapons in the heat of a messy combat.
*Zothen*


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 9:29 pm
Hm, the visible gunarc is overlaying car models! They disapear from some view angles. Also I had a few infos that hover over the cars disapearing.
Mad Mike


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 9:57 pm
circle under the car would look better
*Zothen*


Posted Oct 12, 2008, 10:00 pm
Sam, my keyboard is english now?!? Can you please revert it, cos I have no idea where some symbols are on an english layout!
4saken


Posted Oct 13, 2008, 1:02 am
i also like the idea of the circle instead of the box. it feels more in line with DW. the box makes me think i am playing Battlezone (not that there's anything wrong with that! all it's missing is the sound of the 3 pings when the enemy tank spawns after you killed the last one!)

BTW...

the firing arcs LIE. i knew that as soon as i saw one. i have a screencap if you don't believe me. the arcs shown are 90 degrees and the front and rear arcs are narrower than that. if the arcs are not accurate there's not much point in them.

also there is a small bug where when you click on a weapon to add a character some sequence of hitting stuff leaves the arc up unintentionally. nothing major, just a little annoying.

despite the bitching i can say that overall this update is a nice addition. its nice to click the weapon and the character and be done and it's very handy to see which car your guy is targetting when he's out of arc. overall helps to get a view of the battlefield at a glance much easier.

also something that would be cool: have the weapon color greyed out until a gunner is assigned to the weapon. not essential but might come in handy on some vehicles that have to do alot of crew position changes in a combat.

PS - instant retro trip:

http://games.atari.com/arcade_large.php?game=battlezone
*Diablo Vash*
diablovash@gmail.com

Posted Oct 13, 2008, 10:57 am
t0rp0r said:

*sigh* If only Hammerhead I lived long enough to see its name in lights. Perhaps Hammerhead II will love up to its big brother's reputation.


Omg stealing my car name!!! don't make us have to do a HH battle for rights!! lol
Mad Mike


Posted Oct 13, 2008, 1:49 pm
The arc is covering the ghost when you are driving and the line of sight lines.. interesting idea but I dont think we need that much help...
4saken


Posted Oct 13, 2008, 1:59 pm
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/8053/arcslierj4.jpg

hmm... he doesn't look lost...
Ivan Kerensky


Posted Oct 13, 2008, 2:03 pm
Yep, the arc just is not such a good idea, while the targetting boxes are nice, but a bit too visible/unrealistic ( they are very usefull when the L.o.F are not drawn and redundant when they are ), but it could be nice to have some floating text around them (like hit probability ;), and range ).

The left clicking I just dont use. I found the right clicking more convenient especially as you can do everything with it (from assigning to targetting to ordering fire to stopping fire to reloading... one button to rule them all ).

I agree the firing arc look wrong too, the side one should be larger than 90° and the front one narrower...

About the the fame car ... I dont know. It sound like a cool thing to add for veteran but bring little help to anyone else. I dont think a small courage boost is such a large impact for veteran crew... and the way you lose fame when renaming make little sense. Because then if I use a Fame name on another of my car with the same painting scheme and the same chassis I should have the same Fame rating.. right ? shouldn't painting the car another color diminish his fame ?

What make car famous ? the way you can recognise them ( like the Red Baron Fokker ). So if I keep using a black Phoenix with Flame skin and score a lot with it, this sight will became famous, regarless if it is the same car or not... After all the Panther Pack of Goat is famous as a whole.

I think that a famous car should be allowed to get a surname, THAT will make a difference ;) but then there is no standard model or name in Evans...



Ivan Kerensky


Posted Oct 13, 2008, 2:05 pm
4saken said:

hmm... he doesn't look lost...


I think that this is because each weapon indiviually have an arc that is drawn from his port ( front left or front right ), while the big red arc is drawn from the car front middle point. But then again I agree the car didn't look like it is out of L.o.F.
Alocalypse


Posted Oct 13, 2008, 2:06 pm
The arc needs some transpearacy or to be rendered before everything except the terrain without depth checking so it appears below them (not 100% certain it'd actually look good still).

Mad Mike


Posted Oct 13, 2008, 2:27 pm
maybe instead of shaded block just lines on each side. if the targets within the lines then can be hit, similar to los lines
Netzilla


Posted Oct 14, 2008, 12:28 pm
Mad Mike said:
maybe instead of shaded block just lines on each side. if the targets within the lines then can be hit, similar to los lines


That's what I was thinking as well.  Just let us know where the boundaries of the arc lie and we should have all the info we need.
Mad Mike


Posted Oct 14, 2008, 2:14 pm
would be just like the cone of uncertainy for hurricane path prediction.
*Lugal*


Posted Oct 14, 2008, 2:56 pm
Mad Mike said:
would be just like the cone of uncertainy for hurricane path prediction.

Nah that's for your targeting lines!  :p
Mad Mike


Posted Oct 14, 2008, 3:34 pm
only for your gunners lol.

what about when we click to assign target it tells us what targets we can hit and the chances of them being hit. make the feature able to be disabled for those who dont like to use it.
Kime Dennory


Posted Oct 14, 2008, 11:53 pm
*sam* said:
[
Quote:
The arc seems to sit half way up the vehicle, can it be dropped down so as not to obscure the ghost


The issue here is that if it were lower it would be much more likely to go below the terrain due to bumps and hills, and therefore be invisible. It's currently rendered as a single triangle.. to lower it would be rendering it as a larger number of triangles, each conforming to the terrain. Well I guess I could do that... I'm just being anal about polygon count as usual...


Being able to show firing arcs is nice and all, but honestly I'd only really like to do it with a toggle... 'show firing arcs on selected car' maybe.

As it is, I have a couple of times ended up showing a firing arc and actually made myself unable to see my other car, say when first assigning gunners.  ClickyclickhowdoIturnthisthingoffclickyclick.  Frustrating.

Also, just something I've wondered: is it too complex to do real firing arcs, with some overlap and some blind spots, and where part of a vehicle can be targeted?  The current system has some really weird effects... for example, I literally had my SUV's nose pressed against the side of a truck and I couldn't shoot at it with my front guns.  (Probably due to 'center of mass' targeting.)  And I think it would be really neat if some chassis had arcs that were wider than others... it'd be a great way of distinguishing some chassis that are maybe considered underpowered right now: the Chomper (for example) has an overlapping arc at front corners, whereas the Apache actually has a small blind lane because of the longer body.  Or whatever.

I'm babbling.  Enough.

-KD
*sam*


Posted Oct 15, 2008, 9:13 am
That's a great idea about per-chassis arcs KD.. I'll certainly consider that one. Alo also suggested we could add per-weapon arcs at the same time, which is a nice idea too. Both will create extra variation..
simonmaxhill


Posted Oct 15, 2008, 8:15 pm
It'd also be nice if some weapons deployed in a "center mount" when singlely mounted.

Rocket boosters are one of these, especially. I think when you fire a RB on a smaller car, the off-center mounting causes some spin that you don't really want.
*sam*


Posted Oct 16, 2008, 7:37 am
Quote:
Rocket boosters are one of these, especially. I think when you fire a RB on a smaller car, the off-center mounting causes some spin that you don't really want.


No, rocket boosters specifically apply their thrust at the centre of the car, even though the muzzle appears off-centre.
Mad Mike


Posted Oct 16, 2008, 12:27 pm
if the model could be changed to show that the rocket booster is center mounted it would look better
Valiance


Posted Oct 16, 2008, 12:59 pm
How would that work on my lorry with rear RB and HFOJ?
Ivan Kerensky


Posted Oct 16, 2008, 1:36 pm
Hum should only work when single Rocket launcher is mounted rear.

BTW I thik that rocket booster should be tweaked so you can only mount :

2 rocket booster rear
or
1 rocket booster rear and nothing else.

This way no problem about thrust repartition. If you want to mount a rocket booster and another weapon then you need to mount them apart and the rocket thrust isn't centered :)
*jimmylogan*


Posted Oct 16, 2008, 2:47 pm
I think it's good the way it is. :) Simple and it works. :)

JL


Valiance


Posted Oct 16, 2008, 8:06 pm
I agree with Jimmy. This just seems like unnecessary complication for no benefit
*Chase Bansi*
JohnBMan033@aol.com

Posted Oct 17, 2008, 6:38 am
I agree also.
Ivan Kerensky


Posted Oct 17, 2008, 7:16 am
was joking.. forgot the :p
*Ayjona*


Posted Oct 17, 2008, 5:35 pm
Sam, the arcs are a great feature, but currently, I simply cannot see my ghost whenever I use them, with the exception of when my next turn will place me much lower or higher than my current position. Is this intended?

It makes combat completely unviable when using the "Show All Fire Arcs" preference. But aside from that, the arcs are great ;)
Flaming savage


Posted Oct 27, 2008, 5:56 pm
if u put 2 rocket booster on side of lorrys u can flip in side ways.

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