Engine v82 Scripts v173, a lucky bag of stuff
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*sam* Posted Feb 6, 2008, 11:45 pm |
* You can now fire dropped weapons from your own car?s context menu, once it has a gunner assigned
* Got rid of ammo problem (it looked like you used 2 magazines) when reloading before an event starts * NPCs will now use ballistic weapons. * New NPC vehicles added: Mutant Runner - a trader escort Macho Van - deathracer Trade Runner - a trader escort * A car will now not surrender if it is close to a safety zone (<100m) * The number of characters your gang can have is now based on leadership, and ranges from 30 (for a gang with a 0 skill leader) to over 50 (for a gang with leadership 500+) * New specialisms: - Combat Psychologist (First Aid and Leadership both offer this) - reduces the stress of all occupants in the vehicle; - Recruiter - increases chances of recruiting gang members with above-average skills/stats (Leadership); - Motivator - gives a slight training bonus to all characters in the same town as the leader when training hits (Leadership). Note that it takes 100 points of leadership for each specialist skill, unlike 50 with the other skills * Radiation sickness and other effects of the solar wind getting thru our damaged atmosphere are now in effect (which you will have to find out for yourselves? but I can tell you the aurora has something to do with it) Finally, Parapsycho says ?I've reconfigured my bus to take out on scouts. I put 8 rocket launchers on it but I seem to only be able to assign 6 gunners. Also, I can only assign the first 6 in the bus. The other characters don't appear on the gunner list? ? has anyone else tried more than 6 characters? I can?t see any bug and it seems to work fine for me? |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 6, 2008, 11:51 pm |
Woot! =^_^= |
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Jansan Posted Feb 6, 2008, 11:59 pm |
Most of it looks great, but a few concerns:
1) Is leadership now trainable? If its not, it'll be difficult to get specialisms for it. How does leadership increase? 2) I can't say I'm thrilled with the reduction to 30 for a zero skilled leader. If my leader gets hosed, I have 40 people, what happens? My current leader has about 60 or so leadership skill, I believe. If the intent is to force people to cut back on operations, then it would probably do that. With 30 people and Firelight added, and then the other cities coming up, It would be very tough to run a larger trade operation. As for the rest, looks great.  Love the new specializations, and looking forward to the radiation aspect being expanded upon. Where are the psi's?! 
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*sam* Posted Feb 7, 2008, 12:07 am |
The leader of each gang in a successful combat gets an increase. It actually goes up faster than most skills, if you are fairly active in the wilderness.
Nobody has a zero-skilled leader, of course. My own is 89 skill and that gives me 39 characters max.
Nothing. But you will have to lose a few more before you can recruit another (depending on your new leader).
I think most active wilderness players have a leader well above that. Most active gangs should net an increase, not a reduction. |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 7, 2008, 12:11 am |
Leadership is trainable, and has been. To get a Leadership increase, your character has to be the Leader of the entire Scout (highest total Leadership + Bravery). So yes, it's hard to train. Edit: Whoops, wait a minute.
So if there's 5 players in a successful Scout, and all 5 have one character in the scout, then all 5 of those characters would get Leadership skills? Or the Leaders of those 5 gangs, whether they were involved in the combat or not? |
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Alocalypse Posted Feb 7, 2008, 12:33 am |
Does it also increase the chance of recruiting talented members? |
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Jansan Posted Feb 7, 2008, 12:38 am |
I mispoke, I meant trainable in the sense of using a facility. Like taking managing classes. If it just goes up from field training because it's special, then that makes sense. I obviously don't know the math behind it.
I have been inactive for awhile, does leadership regress? I can't remember what my boss's leadership was. Either way, I'll have to keep her out on the field then and manage towards 30, since I constantly get wasted. Either way, thanks for explaining it, Sam.
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Dr Mathias Posted Feb 7, 2008, 12:56 am |
Cool additions.
I'd rather not see leadership trained in a facility. Warriors earn respect by vanquishing enemies, not book-learnin'. |
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Seiler Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:08 am |
a 20 person variance is too much, IMO, one of the best parts of the game is balance, and now, older gangs will not only have better cars, guns and money, but nearly twice the size of gangs... | ||||||||
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*DoubleTap* Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:52 am |
Sounds like it might be time for me to upgrade my bottom armor. |
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Sterma11 Posted Feb 7, 2008, 4:50 am |
I work like hell to keep my chars healthy I make runs to elmsfield to get the seriously wounded good medical care. I rotate facing to keep good armor to the opponents, when i got back from my last run every single character was radiation sick, some up to 57 percent? Now i understand how online games work, the longer we play, the more we pay but if i am forced to sit out 3 out of four days while our characters heal from going to buy groceries.... In a realistic world no one would be alive in these conditions. I saw no aurora, my guns worked fine but my people are dying. Sam, what is going on, there is no info on how to heal this or how to avoid it. | ||||||||
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Serephe Posted Feb 7, 2008, 4:59 am |
I'm sure that if Sam had put more information on all this new radiation stuff and how to avoid it then people would be a lot happier about it.
There needs to be a way to avoid it, anything that can cause this much mayhem can't be unavoidable or it'd make the playerbase very unhappy. |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 7, 2008, 7:07 am |
we could all become bubble boys walking around in our big bubble bags to keep from getting sick | ||||||||
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NilPoints Posted Feb 7, 2008, 7:11 am |
Minor point on the Trader Runner - I ran into one today and Run is exactly what it did do. Behaviour was more like a trader pickup than an escort, and it disappeared into the distance abandoning the van it was supposed to be guarding... | ||||||||
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darthspanky Posted Feb 7, 2008, 8:57 am |
hehe one tried that with me too but i chased it down and killed it | ||||||||
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*viKKing* Posted Feb 7, 2008, 12:24 pm |
That's exactly what radiations are not, visible and controlled. 
This was a long planned feature. Effects are probably too strong. If I do remember well, the level of radiations outside should be announced in taverns, marketplace or The Gazette and this is obviously missing. This is the first time the community is negatively welcoming a feature; don't worry, there will be changes in less than 48 hours. Just give us some time. We have a day job too!
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ISHOULDCOCO Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:15 pm |
i LIKE IT!
I want a cruel and dark world to fight against ! I think the cost of surrendering is a long walk home in a hazardous environment Activity is a good measure of health - it will keep us wise to the general decay of our gangs. I like this alot - folks who dont want drugs can exclude the junkies but no one stops the Sun. COCO |
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Kermit Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:18 pm |
Just curious.
Why do weapons jam because of radiation? Seems like an odd effect to have. Also - are NPC weapons subject to jamming in the same way? A lot of the scuttlebut seems to indicate that they aren't which seems a little - unfair. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:24 pm |
You can predict it by learning to read the aurora. I was hoping people would figure that out for themselves, but I guess the effect has been a bit strong. I'll tone it down.
Electronics systems are failing, so weapons that use electronics fail (maybe the word 'jam' was causing confusion).
yes |
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Serephe Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:27 pm |
Well, I've not had any effects yet... but Sam, how does reading the aurora help? By the time you're out there, you're out there right?
Edit: Also, which weapons use electronics and which don't? (Never mind, found it, lasers/rockets/missiles) |
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Kermit Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:29 pm |
Is weatherman a new skill?
What are we looking for in 'reading the aurora'. Is there something when I login that would give me a clue - or do I have to look at the sky once I am actually doing battle in a scout? Or is this just something that the group will have to learn by trying different things? Thanks! James |
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*sam* Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:34 pm |
The aurora changes slowly, over a period of weeks. The idea was that this would become a strong community feature, where people would discuss what the aurora is "currently doing".
Yes, look at the sky. Check out the colours and movement of the aurora. I have also just toned down the effects considerably. |
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*Diablo Vash* diablovash@gmail.com Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:34 pm |
alot of us looked at the aurora thinking the colors meant something but if you do nothing and just watch it the colors just chance every 3 secs to all these different colors, my only other guess is that if you head towards where the aurora is the effect get stronger but i dunno.
other thing thats got my confused is that my and seiler went on a GW scout and we were basically side by side the whole scout and we had no weapons trouble but after the scout i had no sickness but seilers 2 gunners did, then again they were using heavy laser so yea, got my clueless lol. |
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El Kabong Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:39 pm |
I agree with the radiation being too strong and quite unrealistic in the way radiation poisoning would work. Radiation is like arsenic, it builds in one's system before taking on the adverse effects, i.e. prolonged exposure causes sickness, sterility, etc. Maybe a better way to put this in game terms is to keep a rad count on characters, the ones going out most often accruing more rad points and dying, getting sick, getting cancer, quicker. I believe it would make players rotate their chars more in scouts instead of using the same ones over and over. Also the hospitals could offer rad treatment to reduce rad points. | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:40 pm |
They do. Sorry, I didn't mention that. A poisoned character who is in hospital will be treated. |
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*Chase Bansi* JohnBMan033@aol.com Posted Feb 7, 2008, 4:57 pm |
Ah ha! I knew we were on the right track. This was being discussed in the lobby and people were paying attention. We were just a little slow putting the clues together. We did notice that the aurora looked 'different' and we were talking about it so your intended plan was working. EDIT: It also spawned a discussion of if rad sickness will lead to mutations or psi, but That is something we'll have to wait and see.... |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 7, 2008, 4:58 pm |
One of the problems with "reading the aurora" is that you can't do that from in town - you have to go out, and get into an encounter, to be able to look at it. By that time, it's already too late... if it's a high-rad day, you're already dosed. | ||||||||
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Alocalypse Posted Feb 7, 2008, 5:18 pm |
You could go into someone else's event or send a lone scout out to see what its like, or just ask around... | ||||||||
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Seiler Posted Feb 7, 2008, 6:09 pm |
Well, went on a scout last night with DV, and I saw NO AURORA, but he could see one on his screen. Why wouldn't my guys able to simply look outside and see the condition of the Aurora before they scout. There should at least be some warning (or picture of the current aurora) in the city marketplaces, right?
I don't mind the rad sickness effects, though it'll make peds obsolete before they are even implemented...(I really dislike the jamming), but we really need to get people's asses OUT of Somerset, it's becoming far too dangerous and unprofitable to leave newbtown for most players, now that all the camps are there, there is no PvP there, one of the only two hospitals are there, one of the only two training centers are there, prices for sold goods skyrocket when the player bandits operate there (in complete security from PvP). I do agree with one thing though, it seems like just another reason to void playing for periods of time, which is not what I want to see from darkwind...
Hmm, why not just go outside? Someone has to get the nerve up to scout...when all we'd have to do is look up. The towns would be in a state of readiness and you'd be living inside and in tunnels to avoid the effects anyhow. It wouldn't be some great secret. |
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Crash Posted Feb 7, 2008, 6:24 pm |
I believe this should be something on the Noticeboard. In Evan, there are far more people than make up our gangs and the radiation should effect them as well. I expect one of our locals with a meteorological interest would make daily observations from his back deck or front patio and post some kind of note on the noticeboards near where missions are posted. That way I don't have to subject myself to harmful radiation just to check if its there. Geiger counters might be a good investment as well. SPF 600 sunblock anyone? | ||||||||
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Victor Posted Feb 7, 2008, 6:47 pm |
There needs to be some other option to counter radiation poisoning besides just not playing when it spikes, because for a lot of people, that's going to be the default.
Sorry, but this is just not fun, in my opinion. Not even with reduced sickness levels. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 7, 2008, 6:53 pm |
You don't think rad spike periods will be times to do high-value missions and camp attacks?
Do I need to make a poll to see if the players want to scrap this feature altogether? |
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Jansan Posted Feb 7, 2008, 7:21 pm |
Well, I'd definetly use it to try to get to Firelight.
But I think the main complaint is it's hurting people who are scouting. Maybe if it was something that affected just travelling, not local scouting missions? That way it's more like: Bandits or radiation? as the main threat of the day when trading or moving troops. While local scouting would be "staying put" and avoiding the radiation effects. Who knows, maybe that would make it more of a dynamic. Just throwing out the suggestion. |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 7, 2008, 7:40 pm |
I think it's an interesting play mechanic, but it comes down to two fundamental points: 1.) Is it really going to do what you hope it will (IE, causing more strategic deployment), or will it just cause people to stop playing, or even quit altogether? There are a lot of people who are upset over their perception of this, which is, "Something that can hurt my men, without me being able to do anything about it." If that's truly the situation, then yeah, it hurts the overall game, as it's an un-fun element. 2.) Does it really fit in with the overall theme of the game (being a tactical turn-based game)? The game is pretty lethal as it is... does adding this actually mesh well with the rest of the game's mechanics? I do understand that it fits the game world. But not everything that fits with the game world necessarily makes for good gameplay. A game set in the Dark Ages might be a good era for a dark, tense game, but having players die off from The Plague for no other reason than they happened to walk by someone else who was infected doesn't make for good gameplay. If you're intent on having radiation poisoning and other elements that make the game more lethal, perhaps it would be a good idea to tweak other gameplay elements to make it so that characters are seen as more disposable - faster skill training while they're under 50 skill, for example. |
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Victor Posted Feb 7, 2008, 8:02 pm |
[quote]You don't think rad spike periods will be times to do high-value missions and camp attacks?[/quote]
I can't speak for the entire player base, but for myself, the answer is decidedly negative. Missions aren't accessible enough in the first place... anything that is remotely possible without lorries, or large negative rep, just doesn't pay enough to be worth the bother. Or it gets snapped up before anyone else sees it. Camp attacks... well, no. PvP is of little interest to me to start with, and burning my own meager game-resources to help someone else capture a camp seems pointless and futile. Any cars/guns I got out of the deal would then likely be tied up defending it, which also just feels pointless and futile. I'll just stockpile car parts and wait for the non-camp crafting to get implemented instead, or someone to offer trades. It's quite possible that Darkwind will someday become the wrong game for me, but for now I'm enjoying the co-op scouting portion enough to stay for more. I don't think the radiation feature needs to be scrapped -- there just needs to be some other means of preventing/avoiding the effects. |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 7, 2008, 8:17 pm |
I have to agree strongly with this. I scrolled through the missions last night, and there weren't any that looked both doable and appealing to any degree. Here, let me post two of the ones that are up right now:
$5700 for carrying 380 bulk of mail through two legs of a journey.
$2000 for a 2-person Taxi to Firelight. And that's for people, which would, I would assume, be harder than carrying 40 bulk worth of goods! Edit: Compare that to a non-League Deathrace; that will get $2700 for first place, and $1800 for second place... for a race with no risk of cars, and much lower risk for the people. |
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Jansan Posted Feb 7, 2008, 8:20 pm |
I agree with the Gamesman on missions: they need to be more profitable. Especially with the large amount of risky encounters. | ||||||||
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Dr Mathias Posted Feb 7, 2008, 9:30 pm |
I think if you really want radiation hot spots, we need to think more in terms of regions and offer a few more paths and roads.
I think there should be more roads to/from each city. Three routes from Somerset to Elms for example. One is easy and fast. More pirates might be along it. Another takes much more time, but pirate activity is lower along it because its not as popular a route. One route is guaranteed safe passage but your tyres are automatically destroyed on arrival, your people have mid level radiation sickness, and your morale drops 10 because your gang wonders why you would be so evil as to send them that way, etc. Radiation levels might be more heavy on one route than another at any given time (There was a dense cloud cover which prevented a lot of solar radiation one week; the next week perhaps the rain was excessively acidic and irradiated.) I think this would give you the tactical decisions you want Sam, while giving people options. Do I take the easy road, which has a lot of rads right now, or do I take an extra 12 hours to go through the passes, high above the corrosive fog? Right now getting dosed for going out of Somerset on a 5 mile scout doesn't make a lot of sense- thats supposedly a safer region, where crops are grown... people are there because its a more hospitable region. Of course, you could say its a tough world, full of radiation- which is probably realistic given the storyline... so to finish the story all the people die, and we're left playing ####roaches. I'm not sure how hard it would be to add multiple routes to/from cities... I do think it will solve/defray/accentuate some of the current issues people have with radiation and it will add the tactical decision making you want to happen. After all, you did add scout direction which I think was a brilliant decision and one I personally thank you for. Anyway, things I like to think about. Although overall we are all here to shoot other cars or come up with creative ways to avoid being shot. |
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*Longo* Posted Feb 7, 2008, 9:55 pm |
If the Rad is going to remain in game, I think Doc has added a pretty good idea. | ||||||||
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Nekojin Posted Feb 7, 2008, 9:56 pm |
I think the multiple routes idea is a good one. Each road could also have different maps associated with it. | ||||||||
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Kermit Posted Feb 7, 2008, 11:19 pm |
In addition to Docs idea (which is interesting), what about offering anti-rad drugs, but specifically make them not available, or harder to get/more expensive in SS. Maybe make them for sale in Elms hospital or something. That'd give people more motivation to move out of SS.
Also the length of travel affecting exposure is a good idea. If I do a ten mile scout it should definitely affect chars less than driving another city that takes 10 hours. Maybe make some of the weapons that are affected by radiation have "shielded" or hardened versions - but harder to get (maybe the weapons shops in hard to get places be able to upgrade them for $$$$$ (lots of money)). |
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*Chase Bansi* JohnBMan033@aol.com Posted Feb 8, 2008, 1:50 am |
I kinda like the new radiation effect. I had one character effected and the hospital made a big impact on curing her. the lighter version is less shocking now that we are aware of it.
I like Doc's idea...
...but to take this in a bit different direction, there is a vapor cloud between GW and BL that currently doesn't have an effect. Perhaps it could and a longer, safer route could be the alternative (viKK, I have a map idea ). It would need to be a significant enough distance that it make the risk of sickness.This ads to the safer in the north, more dangerous in the south theme.
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Marrkos Posted Feb 8, 2008, 5:12 am |
How does this work now that characters don't have to be in town to receive the benefits of training? Do they just have to be registered with the Training Centre in the town the Gang Leader is in, or do they have to be physically in town? |
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*DoubleTap* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 5:19 am |
Where's the tactical aspect of rad sickness? Will we know when and where the hot spots will be? Will the tactics involved amount to not going where the hot spots are? | ||||||||
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Seiler Posted Feb 8, 2008, 6:15 am |
I'd like a better ability to survey what's up, perhaps a system in which players can report Aurora sighting in the town marketplace, or another in game means of tracking what is going on... I like the addition now that it is curbed, and if it came and went at reasonable intervals (a day or two a week, or perhaps a 4-6 day period in a month?) | ||||||||
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*viKKing* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 6:59 am |
Someone suggest the Aurora being display in the lobby background.
Not really sure we can do that, but something in the genre could be nice. I still think there should be some kind of forecast report (with errors) for the next days (one game month). |
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*sam* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 8:42 am |
OK, I'll remove the aurora effects altogether. The sickness code can still be used - when a character has to walk home, or when they get spat on by a rad-frog, for example. | ||||||||
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*Ayjona* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 9:06 am |
At the risk of being ostracized by the community , I hope it returns some day, even if possibly (but not necessarily) in a less harmful manner.
I mean, the Vault Dweller chewed antirads in the same way 20th century man (or, more commonly, 20th century young girls) chews bubblegum. Does anyone here dare tell me to my face that they would not want to like to be like him? |
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pweelg Posted Feb 8, 2008, 9:37 am |
hmm yeah its a good idea that needs to be tweaked a bit so smaller gangs dont get crippled by it and unable to scout
i suppose we could have something like a 5 bulk item of rad sheilding a lead lining on the roof of the car, and this could be layerable for increase protection ? This could be liable to damage like other stuff which would then result in rad sickness ? |
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Seiler Posted Feb 8, 2008, 9:43 am |
well, if they occur at predictable times, and require us to prep for those times (with extra shielding, or fresh rad-resistant enamel paint applied, or something) i think it would be a great addition, but we definitely need some way to adapt to it. I admit, i'll miss some of the effects as well 
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*sam* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 10:13 am |
I did tweak it, yesterday, but most of the players were unwilling to take my advice and wait to see how it panned out with the tweaks. |
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Jansan Posted Feb 8, 2008, 11:17 am |
I didn't even really get a chance to test it. 
I have no rad-sickness people. But with the brief visit of it, I don't know if I was even driving during exposure times with people that lived past one battle. |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 8, 2008, 11:20 am |
when you see your best gunner dying from rad sickness and not even scout then this causes some concern.
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xander Posted Feb 8, 2008, 12:30 pm |
I heard rumours though that the rad sickness can cause them to start using 46-Y, is this true? | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 1:18 pm |
I have removed all existing rad sickness from any characters that had it.
No |
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*Longo* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 2:14 pm |
Thanks for "curing" the rad Sam
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*Chase Bansi* JohnBMan033@aol.com Posted Feb 8, 2008, 5:13 pm |
I hate to see it yanked completely. DW is not a safe world, people get sick and die. I think it was the shock factor that caught people off guard causing the negative response, similar to when drugs were introduced. It a clash between a developing game world getting new features and a story world where these elements would have existed all along. I think the radiation is an appropriate addition to the post holocaust environment. Improvements like this may be better received if players are aware of them before implementation, reducing the shock factor. | ||||||||
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*viKKing* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 5:43 pm |
From my point of view it should be connected with dark winds somehow.
Thanks for supporting the ideas Chase.
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*DoubleTap* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 6:49 pm |
All of my rad-sick characters are still sick.
Mike, you had a character flat-out die on a scout from radiation? |
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pweelg Posted Feb 8, 2008, 7:48 pm |
Sam is it possible you could code this in to just one town and use it as a "guinea pig" ?
I'm thinking BL is the logical choice but maybe we need a poll to make sure all BL regulars agree to being guinea pigs ? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 7:58 pm |
You need to view them individually to fix them on the 'my gang' characters page, which doesn't recalc activity level. |
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*DoubleTap* Posted Feb 8, 2008, 8:31 pm |
Aha, many thanks, Sam. | ||||||||
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Seiler Posted Feb 8, 2008, 9:46 pm |
I'll restate what was said by others, I hate to see the feature disappear completely, but there definitely needs to be a discussion about phases/predictability and effects. |