end camp wars experiment
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darthspanky Posted Oct 8, 2020, 4:09 pm |
i think we should give serious consideration to scrapping the camp wars totally and removing it from the game, a few reasons
1. its basically 1 big hugfest. 2. same player factions are the ones that fight in every camp war fight. 3. too much free stuff, money, trade goods that nobody fights for just collects. 4 causes hard feelings and players quit, im guilty of this myself. it will affect me as well, as im running joes camp but for the reasons above it should be scrapped imo. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Oct 8, 2020, 7:45 pm |
BOK BOK BOK | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 8, 2020, 10:53 pm |
You only just realising it's just more asset transfers to the golden subscribers darth? | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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darthspanky Posted Oct 8, 2020, 11:34 pm |
keep it open i dont care im making a killing
Trade Goods Sales 9355232 |
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Blackwill Posted Oct 9, 2020, 1:46 am |
Seems there's a whole lot of crying going on. What's up?
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 9, 2020, 2:47 am |
I have suggestions.
I’m always full of them. But people whine and cry and feel threatened by the positive changes they would bring.  how about DW Apocalypse 4x Sandbox Conquest MMORPG
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 9, 2020, 11:21 am |
Morgan "Blood Hockey" Tournament anyone? Maybe some "Somerset Scrimmage" (Blood Bowl, the DW edition)? | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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darthspanky Posted Oct 9, 2020, 3:15 pm |
well im not the only one making millions a week, watch the sars market, major food and water delivered there daily as well, all i can say is i tried to warn you. end it.
and i did pm sam months ago when all this camp wars stuff started suggested a cap on how much could be produced, but it was ingnored. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 10, 2020, 2:19 am |
Sounds like the economy might need an adjustment, as darth suggests. But I wouldnt scrap camp wars, it was/still is super exciting and fun for those in actual battles. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Pigg Posted Oct 10, 2020, 4:45 am |
another way to exclude everyone but big time rich?
How do I make war on a camp from town? |
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Bigbadgreen86 Posted Oct 10, 2020, 12:17 pm |
We need a price structure based on supply and demand for the towns. A dynamic economy would fix a lot of issues. |
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darthspanky Posted Oct 10, 2020, 12:35 pm |
the way it works now seems like the more goods you ship in the prices just go higher.
its kinda funny that im complaining im making too much money, but its too easy imo to make money. could also change price on npc car makets when players sell buzzers for alot and you can get them dirt cheap with npc car markets with hero points, i offered 350k for buzzer chassie in fl and no takers, if i ship it to bl bet it will sell fast for 700k |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 10, 2020, 1:11 pm |
buzzers 60k from npc, 950k from market, totally priced fairly by those who state they want to encourage more people to go down south. 
The bulk market at this point has to be intentional, its been a known problem for ages and is the best way to make an even bigger fortune when you're already wealthy. Just more mechanics designed to entrench the established. You can easily make 100 million overnight with a bit of capital if you pay attention to bulk goods and have to do nothing other than hit buy and sell, don't even need to move anything. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 10, 2020, 4:11 pm |
I do not see how camp wars has changed anything with bulk markets. Also the more of a item that is available, the higher the price, the lower the supply the lower the price, so you can not simply buy and sell to make a fortune. Market values were set this way to end that exploit nearly a decade ago. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 10, 2020, 5:00 pm |
Possibly, but it was an illogical* way to "fix" the problem.
There are better ways of doing it and funnily enough other games have economies that work. The thing that usually destroys a game economy is allowing players to control it. Free market economies work only when people are working in enlightened self interest. Destroying the economy is not enlightened, but player with a F$%^ You attitude will do it anyway. Just say Fuel in town X can be bought from NPCs for 200 and sold to NPCs for 180. In town Z Fuel can be bought for 150 and sold for 135. Assume the NPCs are smart enough to secure supplies without relying on conniving PCs to provide it and have markets to consume it without needing PCs to buy it. Anything the PCs do is considered a spit in the ocean of the Deathrace Mafias trade empire. That way the only way to make money on bulk goods is to buy it where it is cheap (the producing town) and sell it where it is more expensive (the consuming town). If you have Billions and buy up all the fuel in SS, the mafia just ship in more and thank you for your custom as you are buying it for more than it costs to produce and ship it (you are a consumer). If you stockpile it, it just ends up costing you money in storage costs. If you sell it and flood the market, the Mafia just smiles and gives you the same money per unit as if you sold them one and at 90% of the price they sell at. They move it to the warehouse awaiting purchase by the next Daddy Warbucks to come along and make a safe 10% on every transaction. It isn't particularly sophisticated and there are those that will say it isn't "realistic", but neither is someone selling you 10 fuel for 200 per unit and then immediately buying back from you for 210 per unit because they haven't got any left now. If you want a real life economic driver I would recommend looking up Arbitrage. Basically in a real economy, the cost differential between the same goods in different towns drops through competition to the actual cost of transporting the goods between the towns plus the minimum credible profit margin. When a market first opens that cost and margin may be quite high, but it will quickly drop to the that of the lowest (and therefore most efficient bidder). In DW the lowest bidder should be an NPC group. That price (cost plus margin) has already been established as the mail rate specified in the Taverns for specific journeys (e.g. it is around $50 per bulk for a trip from GW to SS). So a fuel can that costs $1000 in GW should cost $1500 in SS. Now you can vary the availability of goods due to piracy and the like in towns to allow some player interaction and that may create a Black Market between players. That is fine. If player A is dumb enough to pay over the odds for a commodity because he is desperate for it NOW then so be it. No NPC will be that desperate (other than in specific narrative missions) as they will be playing the long game. You can't buy enough fuel to shut down the Death Race Mafia for more than a day or two. This isn't rocket science. *read "bloody stupid" |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 10, 2020, 5:58 pm |
You can keep believing that if you want, me and Ash bought two camps in a week with no effort other than pressing buy and sell in SS(though the same applies to every town), the market is still badly broken and abuseable without adding camp wars gifts from the god's into the mix. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 10, 2020, 7:28 pm |
Seems like almost an exploit. Did you PM a Marshal or Sam about this? |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 10, 2020, 8:00 pm |
It's an exploit to buy low/sell high due to terrible pricing mechanics that he's been told about for years that mean it is easy to ride the regular price waves? This isn't rocket science longo, even you have just enough brains to figure out how to do it, not that you'd need to with your 800% markup game.
Also getting changes through that don't explicity come from or favour certain sections of the playerbase is like pulling teeth. I long ago gave up any thoughts of fair balance changes the first time sam changed the rules overnight to stop ashlee killing people in races and then lied to his face a few weeks later around possible town/map additions/changes only to say the complete opposite to others asking the same questions, its another reason I barely touch the multiplayer aspect. This isn't a new problem, like everything else the market has been neglected for far too long in favour of DOA cookie cutter projects. Nothing really changes, too late and too old now. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 10, 2020, 8:44 pm |
I dont think this is necessary. Also, I dont play the market game, and if I choose to loot rares in the deep south on scouts, transport them all the way back to SS SAFELY, then I can charge whatever I want for them. If you dont like it, well you dont have to buy anything from me. |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 10, 2020, 9:22 pm |
I don't think a lot of your snide comments are necessary yet you throw them out on a regular basis, we're in check, you can mate with your stars if you're that delicate.
We established that earlier when you thought low/high was an exploit.
No one mentioned SS but you, for the 'i work hard' mitigation, I'd assume you'd go for a way higher percentage on SS. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 10, 2020, 9:41 pm |
"TEARS"
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darthspanky Posted Oct 10, 2020, 10:32 pm |
thats why i was so mad when sam added a crapload of feul in every town, lol good job buying it up and selling for a profit i knew that was going to happen, lol
i was tempted to do the same thing, i know otherss bought it up and did that as well lets hope sam doesnt add 30k cans of gas again to every town. i was actually shipping 17k cans of gas made at my shanty camp, decided to start selling took me 2 game years to deliver it all to ss, if you waited a bit longer could have made more, but you sold it right a i was starting to deliver prices got close to 1300 a can. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 10, 2020, 10:52 pm |
The difference being you were legit doing work to make profit, although a profit that sounds to be significantly higher than it should be. clicking in town and making millions isnt good. |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 10, 2020, 11:02 pm |
Thats what I thought.
The mass fuel dump was stupid but I only got in on 3k of that, on a regular day you just play the numbers, coming from eve I find the market to be quite pathetic, not even worth making a spreadsheet for but the regular shift in price coupled with the supply in SS means you can make millions easily if you watch bulk price on fuel, trading it back and forth. The same goes for every town just on different commodities, it's like early eve npc markets before they got a grip, the gifts from the camp war gods just compound it. |
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darthspanky Posted Oct 10, 2020, 11:13 pm |
id have much rather seeen sam fix things that are clealy broken than to add things like camp wars that only a very smll percentge of plyerss are actually using and those using it are making big money, why i started this thred ditch it or ill mke 8 to 10 mil a weeek easy, dont change it and ill make another 100 mil in lesss than a game year. half wass made just selling water in fl camp makes over 2300 water units a day with 1 water plant at 100 and other at 50 percent i could make even moree water units but cant ship it all out fast eenouph to keep from being flooded, and sars players can make even more selling food and water to npc markets. lol | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 10, 2020, 11:35 pm |
Being real though, wouldn't you want to keep your long term whales happy? |
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darthspanky Posted Oct 10, 2020, 11:39 pm |
lol and when you fight back from loosing gangers in camp war fights and attack them back they cry to sam, boo hoo darth and madbooth are attacking the mo defences and we get banned from being allowed our gameplay revenge attempts lol
want to fix camp wars thats easy? dont give them anything, allow fights like they are now remove the looting and death of gangers for camp wars and players who spend years building there gangers and legendary vehicless will use them in massive pvp battles and nobody walks away with hard feelings. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 11, 2020, 6:43 am |
i don't see how making water or food and shipping it to town to sell it is broken. You still have to actually transport it, especially not when it's compared to buying and selling thousands of units without shipping them anywhere | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 11, 2020, 8:04 am |
Moving stuff is fine as long as the profit you make from moving it isn't higher than you would get from moving mail.
The real profit should come from manufacture, and that should be in proportion to the cost of efficient manufacture. A reasonable profit might be 10-20%. That does mean that because you have a camp that costs millions to buy and run and you have a pumpkin farm producing food, the cost of the rest of the camp should be taken into consideration. The fact you are obsessed with tech doesn't the traders faction should mean your inefficient food distribution network should set the cost of food in Evan. If a hex near to a town* can generate food then the base cost of food in that town should be the cost of making food plus the mail cost of moving food from that hex. As hexes represent tens of miles and camos are hundreds of yards, we could choose to assume that PC camps represent a small fraction of the camps in that area, most of which are large camps run by the large factions. *And if there are no food and water sources within a sensible distance why the hell would a town ever exist there? Now it looks to me that the prices shown in the markets show reasonable coorelation between the cost of buying in a town closer to the primary source (so SS for food) plus the mail rate. Where it starts to fall apart is now camps much nearer have the ability to make goods, but the price hasn't dropped (as Arbitrage says it must) to represent this new source of goods. If players can ship it in for 100% profit, NPCs can ship it in for 50% profit and no-one will buy the players goods. If they drop it to 25% profit, the NPCs will drop to 10%. Below 10% the margins are probably too tight to make it worthwhile, but some real world industries are working on even slimmer margins. Remember the mail rate assumes a profit to the courier over and above wear and tear (and frankly anything attacking a Deathrace Mafia convoy should just end up as loot) The real issue of course is that Firelight (for example) shouldn't even exist in the middle of an ash waste, it should have been formed in the highlands where food, water (and stone) is more readily available. It is ok for raiders to camp in the wilds and move about as they can live off their kills and return to a water source when they get depleted. It is ok for a work camp to import food and water, as they can disappear and get attacked, but a permanent settlement needs a local supply of food and water to develop and therefore the cost of these should be reasonable (barring unanticipated famine). Reasonable means that the daily wage for NPC workers should be able to cover their (and their families) food, water and housing costs. In a camp it is taken out at source so that $10 is a bonus, but what do people earn in the towns themselves? And what about camps that don't produce food and water. Now we could simply assume that every viable town in Evan is situated on a water source* as that is the bulkiest staple and maybe the slavers are strictly carnivore as well (there is certainly plenty of dead livestock that comes out of the pit). I'd like to see the numbers
*QUIZ name a permanent settlement on earth that is more than walking distance from a water source. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 11, 2020, 5:07 pm |
Cape Town, or Xianggelila (shangri-la) |
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 11, 2020, 5:50 pm |
Cape town is coastal so desalination is possible. Also Svartrivier runs through it and there is Silverstream Waterfall on table mountain. It is over consuming its water, but it definitely has some. Xianggelila - Lamuyangcuo Lake, Longtan Park has a massive lake, there are several others close by, plus a river (or possibly a canal) also runs through it. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 11, 2020, 7:02 pm |
Las Vegas | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 11, 2020, 7:49 pm |
That’s what it boils down to. The Whales, or Lords of Evan, or the Established, or whatever name is used to describe the Golden Boys, are the ones who see a non-VIP club member making money (ie: hauling a lorry of water from SS to BL and then hauling Fuel back from their camp to SS) and they go “OMG we can’t let whas-is-name make 11 million! And they go crying to *Sam* saying it’s an exploit. I suggested a fix, what was it? 7 years ago? DYNAMIC ECONOMY. How much fuel is used in SS? Let the system calculate this. Then the SS market NPCs will only buy up to 150% of that amount before they say “sorry, we got plenty” If you roll into town with 400 cans of fuel and they only need 15, you won’t be making millions. At least not all at once. You roll into town with 20 Lorrys (like a certain person with a user name starting with a letter in the last 3 or 4 of the alphabet, who cries exploit when he sees you truce and encounter), and you are sitting on “I have 20,000 cans in SS alone”, he would be spending the next 3 years selling it but by bit daily. If it takes you a year to sell your fuel, you will find something else to sell. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 11, 2020, 7:58 pm |
Here’s how it’s broken: everyone says buying fuel in Texan for $11 and selling it in SS for $1000 is broken and that Boon, Krak, and I were exploiters for hauling it to SS. (So much so that a certain Golden Boy cried to *Sam* and got him to create untrucable encounters to just to stop us). But the really FUNNY part is that the BIGGEST MONEY is from making it at camp. It costs $2-$4 a can to make it. LESS if you have a big camp. I think I was spending 75 cents a can. And HEMP was shipping it from a BL camp. At that time a person could get water in Elms at a cost of $2.20 per bulk, (Thats $91,520 to buy 20 lorries full. the amount the unnamed person with the Golden Ticked mentioned once. I'll call him Willy Wonka), ship it to BL and make $110 per bulk (thats almost 4.6 Million). Then get fuel from Hemp 7 cents per bulk ($2912). Sell that in SS at $150 per bulk ($6.25 million) Hence they invested less than $10k and walked away with around $11 Million Guess why that person is able to take twin TG FEs to CoE just to blast someone to scrap and not have much chance of completing the course? $11 Million reasons... Guess why his competition cant? Willy Wonka says what? "Waaaaah exploiters hauling fuel from texan are able to truce encounters and they only have to play 60 hours a week to be able to do that! Waaaah! Sam, undermine my competition ! Waaahh!" |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 11, 2020, 8:13 pm |
Wasn't he the same one who called for SCAVs to be banned from town events because they were "Unfair Competition" after Boon won a Laser, I won a 3.2LV8 Moray, and Brunwulf won some other big prize and we showed that scavs could place 1st, 2nd, or 3rd easily as anyone else in a leaugue?
I forget... |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 11, 2020, 8:58 pm |
Anything that threatens the golden council is swiftly changed, often overnight, anything that doesn't is either ignored or changed at a glacial pace.
Nothing will change about this, its not a new issue. |
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darthspanky Posted Oct 11, 2020, 9:05 pm |
heck cant even curse them in a private im without getting cars confenscated and given to them, but at least i bitched and got car taken away from them.
probably lock this thread and ban me from forums again it what they do. |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 11, 2020, 9:32 pm |
Yeah, in this very thread one of them tried to pull the intimidation card like usual.
Remember, we've always been at war with eurasia.
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 11, 2020, 10:05 pm |
Lake Las Vegas. Pittman wash. Clark County Wetlands park. Colorado river and the Hoover Dam. Las Vegas wash. Duck Creek Channel. The ironically named Lake Sahara. Numerous detention basins. |
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darthspanky Posted Oct 11, 2020, 10:17 pm |
if you guy want to have a distracting converstion start your own damm thread about water or whatever the hell your ranting about. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 11, 2020, 11:38 pm |
LMFAO |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Oct 12, 2020, 12:54 am |
I think Crispy and Jackoff are totally right we should make them the brain trust. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 12, 2020, 2:31 am |
This is the TLDR; version of what I said... bravo +1 I tell ya, its a consiracy! |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 12, 2020, 2:37 am |
You have always ranted about Whack-a-Mole and Hug-fest. Don't even try to say you dissagree, or that Camp Wars is working... Unless its working to break the playerbase or create even more anger between us. This we already saw with Krak's ragequit and inappropriate behavior when it got him into his emotions. Camp wars CAN work. but it looks like almost everyone has abandoned it either because it caused them to be preyed upon (whether rightfully or wrongfully doesnt matter) or because they were overwhelmed, or because its not accessable except for the existing powerbase. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT INCLUSIVE FOR NEW PLAYERS! which I was nder the impression it was meant to create greater inclusion. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Oct 12, 2020, 4:24 am |
You're Right. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 12, 2020, 10:53 am |
At least Jolenes actually acknowledging the golden council he sits on, progress. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 12, 2020, 12:38 pm |
we quit because the time commitment was too great and some obvious issues were not being addressed. Broadly the issues were: 1. number of fights - in particular when playing against an opponent who was deliberately changing open hours to make them difficult and refusing to negotiate times. The scheduling was also failing to pick the closest times between open hours. That should have been an obvious thing to improve ability to play. 2. The tile decay demolishing Bills territory and handing a chunk of ours directly to Joel without a fight. 3. the lack of balance in expanding. the CR you gain is so much more than the CR you need if you are not fighting on multiple fronts. as you get bigger it becomes easier to expand. It should be harder. 4. Fame contributing to CR makes it a pay to win exercise around the sponsorships. 5. it is far to comfortable to sit on a territory and agree boundaries with neighbours.... essentially free money. I would have liked to have continued to play with people who were reasonable about scheduling. The few fights with Joel were organised in a spirit of decency. Playing Krak was utterly toxic and put a lot of our players off participation. He seemed to take it as a personal affront that, after he chose to stick his camp 3 tiles away from us we had the audacity to take the fight to him. It made for an unpleasant experience that affected our relationships with the players who choose to accept his behaviour and fight with him. Frankly that was the biggest shame in the whole thing for me. It did result in us playing with more players (not new ones but certainly returning ones - and i guess you wouldn't expect new players to be fighting in Texan). Overall it is a good game... the mechanic is good... its fun and engaging. It introduces depth and colour to the game. But like most things we end up beta testing things in game and it can sometimes be a dispiriting experience. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 12, 2020, 12:48 pm |
It's not pay to play, It's pay to beta test
Any time stuff gets added without fixing what already is a issue, it only compounds the problems. It seems pretty obvious this game has gotten too big or too complex for one man to tackle. I got a character thats traveled over 4000 miles alone and received no gains to scouting skill at all. I only mention this as an example.When Juan Valdez got banned it was for insulting Sam over no skill gains to any characters for over 2 weeks, while scouting with them 4 to 12 times a day. The core game has MAJOR bugs and glitches which not only can be exploited, but for some, MUST be exploited, just to balance the gameplay to the point of trying to make the game work as it seems it was intended to. I said seems to, because there is no rulebook, and most of what I've read on wiki isn't how the game actually plays out. Mentioning these things has gotten me mixed results, Ridiculed for making up bugs that don't exist to waste sams time (the do exist or I wouldn't have wasted my time investigating and pointing them out), personal attacks for pointing out bugs which makes players feel stupid for beating their head against a wall, Being told that a bug doesn't exist when it clearly does and has been pointed out repeatedly in the forums by many players over a decade ago, Or I'm told that it's part of the core game code and that it might get updated in 2 or 3 years (2022-2023, as if our money isn't good enough to address it sooner), Being treated like complaints are inappropriate due to bad spelling or grammar, or just being told flat out, stop pointing out bugs and just play the game as it is supposed to be played. |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 12, 2020, 1:07 pm |
That would imply things got fixed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 12, 2020, 1:17 pm |
IRL I am surrounded by people who want to use drugs instead f dealing with their problems. This has made one thing very obvious to me, Problems do not go away simply because they are ignored and not addressed.
I am not calling anyone an addict, I am simply using this as a metaphor for the effects of not dealing with existing problems |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 13, 2020, 12:48 pm |
I don't think this is true, adding camp wars and the swift changes to keep existing power user revenue from being threatened show changes can be made and made rapidly, despite lies told to certain players that changes/additions couldn't be done for years. He got bored and moved on to other projects until cajoled by family, you can see this in the wildly different projects he's done since, it's apathy more than complexity. It's a pity a real dev studio didn't pick up the idea as it really did have the potential to be a niche game with a far bigger playerbase, as it is it takes a real masochist to persist in the face of so many quirks shall we say. it was never on the cards with a one man comp sci dev team though. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 13, 2020, 5:12 pm |
Ok, so you mouthed off to me earlier in this post, and have done nothing but berate the game, the developer, and the players who have been the base of the player community. What do you want? To be able to instantly be elite and be able to steal a camp in one attack? Or kill a 400 skill player that has trained for years just because it would make you happy? Ive been playing for almost 14 years.....goat, darth, several others also. Of course we are going to be good at the game. Most of us have taken long breaks from the game also and had to basically rebuild our gangs. You know why? Because we find Darkwind FUN, the way it is. The game is 14 years old and still ticking. That in itself is impressive. We enjoy logging in, chatting with old friends in the community, and adding to the games content and stressing over epic battles. If YOU do not find this game fun, what do you want? The game was been in its complete form for years. It has bugs. So dont games that cost ALOT more. I cant win at XCOM because it keeps crashing on me for instance. Fallout 4 had a bug I couldnt get around, and had to research using the console option to skip me past the bug... Nothing is perfect man! I am around a fair amount, and am always available to offer advice or take a newer or weaker player out on a scout. You are a weaker player, so this applies to you. I offer these same options to everyone, even if I dont like you, and again, this applies to you. If you want to slug it out, my flag is always on and you know what town events I compete in. I would not suggest rejoining camp wars, because honestly you need significant improvement in this area and would just waste everyone's time. The SCL league could offer you some training in Pvp, use this as a training area and learning environment. See you on the roads of Evan, if you dare! Longo, of The Kingdom of Longo, Gateway Truckstop, Evan. |
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darthspanky Posted Oct 13, 2020, 7:06 pm |
See you on the roads of Evan wait longo i think you said that wrong, yer supposse to say see ya on the road scag lol https://youtu.be/Sy4SuzhptcI |
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*sam* Posted Oct 13, 2020, 7:59 pm |
Eh? You think all that work on camp wars and related code was to keep 'existing power user revenue'? Apart from anything, the dominant players here are absolutely *not* the biggest spenders in the game - they don't need to be.
Excuse me? You're suggesting I lie about the game? |
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*sam* Posted Oct 13, 2020, 8:00 pm |
+1 Thanks Longo. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 13, 2020, 8:40 pm |
That reminded me; It's only a game | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 13, 2020, 9:58 pm |
and even though we fall out in lumps from time to time... and we often fundamentally disagree about stuff in game.. we normally manage to be civil. and sometimes things go the way i want... sometimes they go the way joel wants... sometimes longo.... and rarely we all agree. If there is a golden set of players then its hard to see how things work for them given that they rarely agree on anything 
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 13, 2020, 10:07 pm |
No, what gave you that idea beyond wishing to be hyperbolic? What i'd like is fairness and consistency around mechanics and rules, i'm not the first to notice inconsistency nor will I be the last.
No, again, hyperbole of something I never said, you do this a lot you know.
Never said anything about player skill or lack of.
It is impressive, that changes nothing about anything i've said.
Again, I never said I didn't find the game fun, it's always the same, notice inconsistencies between players, point out problems, get accused of hating the game.
That can be fixed, this is not a one time purchase game. Unless of course we're back to pretending its set in stone again.
Again. never said it needed to be perfect, this is you once again projecting.
Irrelevant ego stroke.
Another ego stroke.
I've no good reason to turn the sanctioned grief flag on to be time terrorised, the only time i've participated in camp wars was to make up the CR for ashlee and he quit after a few turns and that was painfully slow going. I do find it interesting that you once again turned talk around changes into the 'big i am' pvp pitch again though.
When I next see ash i'll get him to send me the messages where you told him no additions, maps or changes were possible to the game due to it being full, yet others were told different, I know of 2 players now that are playing around making maps. |
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 13, 2020, 10:11 pm |
Ashlee is not a reliable source of anything other than hot air. |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 13, 2020, 10:44 pm |
I agree, his mouth writes cheques he can't cash, it's not him that wrote the messages though so, again, irrelevant. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Oct 13, 2020, 10:57 pm |
Heh I used that line once and Goat edited it saying I said something sexist. |
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*Rev. V* Posted Oct 14, 2020, 1:13 am |
Oh Goat, that rascal...
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*sam* Posted Oct 14, 2020, 8:17 am |
The game being 'full'. What does that even mean? The hard drive, the database maybe? Maybe its internet tubes are all clogged up. Either way, it's utter nonsense. You admitted that Ashlee is full of hot air, yet you're believing some heresay from him and using it as justification for calling me a liar? Idiot. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:40 am |
Okay, RARELY am I the calm voice... but lets please refrain from PvD (Player vs Developer) combat.
The last thing we want to do is make *Sam* so mad he quits or whjatever. I've seen it happen before when we all threw such Hissy Fits that he was like "whatever, i'll make Goblin Jump n Run instead" (I make fun of it but Emily thought it was really cool, Sam. I mean nothing negative by making fun of it!) I agree with Goat, (wonders never cease) in that we never agree on anything. IMO its why the game doesnt get worked on much. Because any change or addition upsets as many people as it makes happy and they we all fight. Or we cant agree what we want so *Sam* has no clear concept of what to give us. LASTLY, to *Sam* himself; Please don't get too upset with us. We are all a bunch of idiots who get along as well as a bunch of toddlers fighting over the last 'nana |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:54 am |
[quote]The game being 'full'. What does that even mean? The hard drive, the database maybe?[/quote]
I don't know, you sent the message, If I can recall correctly without reading it over his shoulder again you were talking about the torque 3d engine being out of space so nothing could be added. I can understand why, he's a grade A asshole online and easier to fob him off than bang your head against a wall. [quote]You admitted that Ashlee is full of hot air, yet you're believing some heresay from him and using it as justification for calling me a liar? Idiot.[/quote] He is full of hot air, again though, he didn't write the PM to himself. |
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*sam* Posted Oct 14, 2020, 10:12 am |
LOL. I'd suggest you either understand what I said, or else post it directly, rather than make vague statements which make no sense based on your vague understanding of what someone else's vague understanding was. |
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Jaqen Hagar Posted Oct 14, 2020, 10:40 am |
I said I would the next time I talked to him. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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darthspanky Posted Oct 14, 2020, 3:27 pm |
LASTLY, to *Sam* himself; Please don't get too upset with us. We are all a bunch of idiots who get along as well as a bunch of toddlers fighting over the last 'nana[/quote] wait crispy not all of us be idgets i haz da smartz 
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 14, 2020, 8:34 pm |
are you sure? |
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 14, 2020, 8:36 pm |
I said you said something SEXY. 
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Bigbadgreen86 Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:56 pm |
Couldn't agree more. |
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 15, 2020, 7:42 am |
If the inflammatory posters could please take it down a couple of notches, I'd appreciate it.
If when replying to a post you could confine yourself to replying to what was actually written rather than your assumption of what the person was really trying to say, we might make more progress. If you could restrict yourselves to verifiable and evidenced facts when pointing out "errors" in the game the developer might be in a position (and inclination) to investigate them. Please have the courtesy to assume that the developer is in a position to intimately know the design of his software. In Sam's case as sole developer he is actually in a better position that if a software house had picked it up as he will have made the changes personally rather than hand a design down to someone else to implement (who may have varied the design from the spec for whatever reason) Please understand that the complexity of software is such that it is never 100% bug free. No testing regime will eliminate all bugs. No amount of investment will do so. I work on military systems (for which most of the graphical interfaces are far less sophisticated than we see in games) that have been in development support for decades and for which the government has paid billions. We still regularly find bugs. This is generally because the user community is more interested in new features than in maintenance. As a developer it is far more interesting (and therefore rewarding) to look at new stuff than to trawl through code trying to fix a bug that has been in place years and that people have got used to. If you perceive there is an issue in the way the game is implemented, as part of the user community (whether you subscribe or not) you are generously invited to offer suggestions. Do not mistake that for a right to influence the development. Your subscription pays for the game as is (with the extra features that brings), it is not a payment for a support contract that gives you a right to change the game to something else. Many of you have been playing this game for years (I have been playing for about a decade on and off). You are not in fact toddlers. Please conduct yourselves in a manner that befits persons of your doubtless advanced years and, where relevant, the elders of the community you represent as either part of the council and/or as marshals. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 15, 2020, 7:20 pm |
Hey Dad, maybe you and Mom need to take a weekend getaway or something... or maybe you should get a case of beer and invite some of your poker buddies over Friday night... just saying.... |
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darthspanky Posted Aug 1, 2021, 10:31 pm |
so just a brief recap of what happened since i made this post, i made a butload of money selling water like i said i would, what i do with the money? well good question i bought up all the sponsorships, bought land for grelnin to build a camp, paid a mil to anyone that killede of of their gangers, built a camp in morgan and applied the sponsorships to them, got tierd of seeing xman get smoked to his home hex so got back into camp wars.
big mistake, it threatened the 2 large camps that were dominating camp wars, so what dooes sam do, he nerfs the price of water from 600 a can to 100 a can, takes away the trucing ability thats been in the game like forever. with no proir notificationj to anyone of those changes that were made. why would sam do this? not really sure maybe hes those players lapdog, because when they complain evil darth is makling headways and giving them a good run in camp wars, he nerfs me and my playstyle whats the point of even trying in this game i once loved so much. ill most likly close my camp to camp wars, like goaat did, he understands but cant respond anymore in forums because hes censored by sam and gets his posts removed, and have fun scouting against computer and with others scouting, i gave or sold them alot of the stuff i was making at those camps, helping to build up their gangers and gear. be more fun to just watch xman get smoiked to his last hex again in a few weeks then longo/joel can crush out firedragons, longo will get all grimms territory now that hes banned from the game, he ck can even take all of morgan while yer at it, then 4 to 6 players can never fight each other and just collect everything, and we can wait for them to proclaim themselves the greatest playerrs in evan, because they certainly wont stand for anyone threatening them, they get their lapdog sam to get out the nerfing gun and attack their competition, so have fun playing this game. |
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*Rev. V* Posted Aug 2, 2021, 1:39 am |
I'm curious about this trucing nerf, can anyone elaborate?
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Smooch Posted Aug 2, 2021, 3:29 am |
From what I can tell, Darth can’t truce with gangs that he has high reputation with. I have not seen it myself. My trips are all one or two vehicles, or during scouts that I don’t want to fight. But I have not failed a truce. Darth has said he is failing many truces. My theory is the truce nerf is specific to him, or it is triggered by the number of vehicles or types of vehicles. We have no info besides a discord comment made by Sam about lowering the effectiveness of trucing. You can read the conversation on discord in the SS channel |
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darthspanky Posted Aug 2, 2021, 3:29 am |
yeah it wasnt a problem when i made this post back when i made it, but since fireflys not here to do sponsorship wars spending millions each, it then became a problem because poor joel felt threatened that i spent money to buy them all to even have a chance as were very outnumbered in the cr matchups. the games beyond broken and im not playing this ####show camp wars crap anymore.
last truce that failed i useded 2 cars a buzzer and lorry got mo maps that suposedly lorrys cant travel on on a gang im honored with. |
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*Rev. V* Posted Aug 2, 2021, 3:53 am |
Well, I don't do the discord thing...
But not being able to truce with gangs you have high standing with seems crappy. What's the point of allying with a faction then? |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 3, 2021, 1:40 am |
So what you did over the past 3 game years was use a travel exploit, that Sam had already declared wrong and patched once, by realizing that the patch didnt cover the Firelight area. Specifically what you did was took up the Anarchist faction, kept good standing with them, then produced a ton of water in your FL camp. You then loaded this water up regularly into squads of 20 unarmed AND unarmored lorries (Yes 0 armor on all sides and 0 weapons), and transported this water to Firelight. Because you realized this loophole in Sam's patch, you were able to move this water and TRUCE 100% OF YOUR ENCOUNTERS, and sell this water for many times over $500 a can. A rough estimate of how much each of your lorries carried would be 360 cans per lorry multiplied by 20 lorries, at $500 a can. SO each squad you did this with you made around $3,600,000, and you ran multiple squads per day doing this. SO, YOU FOUGHT ZERO encounters and made $3.6 MILLION PER DAY, PER SQUAD. A rough estimate of what you made would be between $500 millions and 1 billion DW dollars. How do I know this? Because the last 3 game years alone, you forked out $500 million taking 12 of 15 sponsorships. Then you bought Smooch's camp plot and Grelin's camp plot, which was another $53 million. And what effort did this take you? Processing squads with 100% trucing. An EXPLOIT that Sam thought he fixed! Rather than post this in the Bugs forums, you chose to use this EXPLOIT to make a TON OF MONEY! How do you justify using this EXPLOIT?
SO, you needed to cheat in order to try and even the odds in Camp wars. Apparently Xman, Grelin, Smooch, Shawnfiredragon, Wuulf, Shonuff, Goat and Ninesticks needed more help to beat Joel and I (I left out our allies PA, Tez, and FF because they have gone to being pretty casual players nowadays) ? So it justifies cheating apparently? I didnt include you in the list because the 2 times you joined battles you literally got your a$$ handed to you, even using your Uber gangers and elite machinery.
Sam apparently fixed the EXPLOIT and didnt tell you, who was EXPLOITING THE GAME and making millions? REALLY DUDE? So now, by looking at your events history, you can only TRUCE 90% of the time and you are upset? YOUR UPSET because alot of players are mad YOU EXPLOITED THIS GAME and KEPT SPONSORSHIPS FROM OTHER PLAYERS. IM MAD BECAUSE YOU HAVENT BEEN BANNED FOR THIS ACT OR SEVERELY PUNISHED! You have been playing this game almost 15 years, YOU KNOW BETTER! Some players in the community look up to you! And the example you set as a vet player is that its ok to EXPLOIT the game.
Shawn has reaped the rewards of Camp Wars and fought exactly....yes you guessed it...ZERO battles. He was an"ally" but after we took out Wuulf for constantly moving his and Grimm's border (and fighting against us), and decided after we conquered Wuulf's land that he could walk in and claim it, he became not an ally, but more a unruly neighbor. You yourself darth coined the term "hugging" referencing Shawn being friendly to everyone, reaping teh rewards and fighting 0 battles. I would have thought you would have appreciated the call to him to "fight or go home."
Your very outnumbered? How so? Im fighting every round just to keep the CR I have, and fighting from 3 sides, yet you are outnumbered CR wise? Are you kidding me? Im splitting my CR to the North vs Shawn, South vs Xman, and West vs Smooch. And you cant gather enough CR to fight me? Its bad management if thats the case. You need to be severally punished for your actions. I dont care about your feelings. Your a grown man, and this is a game. |
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darthspanky Posted Aug 3, 2021, 4:20 am |
i never hid what i was doing, 3rd post in this thread i said i was making good cash, im glad you dissaproove and it got you all worked up, i dont give a #### what you or any other player thinks. this game is beyond broken and sam never fixes ####, he knew i was making alot of cash way before. dont worry tho camps are closing, now you and joel can take all of evan i dont care, ill never have any respect for you and joel, why dont you exploit camp wars more while yer at it, like you did in past. chearting and controlling others cars, your no innocent yourself. |