PvP Spawns
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FireFly Posted Jul 27, 2020, 11:19 pm |
Does scout skill make a difference for spawns in the camp pvp? Chase spawns are a huge advantage, it'd be nice to know if it makes a difference. Personally would prefer if they were always head on, but that's another debate.
Cheers. |
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Djihani Posted Jul 27, 2020, 11:25 pm |
Would a facing preference button in squad screen make sense? | ||
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*Bastille* Posted Jul 27, 2020, 11:29 pm |
I dunno, should you be able to chose this stuff.
For some it works better to be rear facing. look at the last Vault/David battle. Both sides all Guns were facing turn 1. Having a head on spawn might change load outs |
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FireFly Posted Jul 27, 2020, 11:43 pm |
Well, mostly because head on facing and mounts lead to better fights, also makes more sense to me since the squads are out to fight each other.
If to make it more complicated, I suppose you could give squads an option to choose their facing preference and have a scout roll-off to see who gets their way. But that sounds like more work. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jul 28, 2020, 4:19 am |
Preset spawn formation and direction would be cool | ||
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*sam* Posted Jul 28, 2020, 12:11 pm |
Wilderness spawns are based on a concept of 'traders' versus 'pirates'. The pirates (as the supposed aggressors) will either be behind the traders or they'll be face-to-face. The traders will never be behind the pirates.
It's nearly 15 years since I wrote this code, but as far as I can see, with pvp combats the 1st squad will always be the pirates. Prior to the new camp war combats, the 1st squad was chosen randomly (and this is still the case for non camp war combats). With camp pvp though, the 1st squad will always be the tile's defender. There is no scouting roll made. It seems reasonable to give the defender the advantage, so this seems ok to me (or at least, not disastrous). However, of course, I could pretty easily implement a scouting roll if we agree that would be better. There's other things I could do too.. such as force the spawn regions further apart in camp pvp, to reduce the chance of one squad getting a big advantage. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jul 28, 2020, 12:21 pm |
further apart just introduces a different set of advantages to gangs with 300m weaponry. I'm not sure that it has created any significant issues yet. |
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FireFly Posted Jul 28, 2020, 12:32 pm |
So defenders can get chase spawn, attackers can't. Random between those two options, gotcha. Doesn't this mean the attacker is better situated to do a rear-gun defensive loadout whilst the defender probably shouldn't? That's a bit ironic isn't it?
If you want to keep defenders advantage maybe let the defender specify between head-on and "running defense" if he wishes. Given the nature of the KoTH game mode however, I feel the best option would just be forcing head-on engagements. If you want to roleplay it presumably both people are there to fight over a specific point anyway, so it'd make sense they're both approaching the battle site. Forcing longer range is a good alternative if a bit problematic with some weapons. At least it would lead to more tactical options on most maps, and I say that as someone quite into brawling.
As long as you include mortars on your list of implications, even if not quite 300m weaponry. We could always just nuke luna for the sake of balance, I'd live with it. 
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*goat starer* Posted Jul 28, 2020, 2:24 pm |
there is a pretty big difference between the 220m mortar range and the 300 of RGMs and heavy lasers. they are also horribly inaccurate and don't have nearly the rapid tactical impact of these weapons. They require larger vehicles so can be closed on more easily. The ability to fire over stuff makes them dangerous but nowhere near in the same league as a 300m weapon that hits every shot - 3x opponents max range in a fast car hitting every time v 2x opponents max range in a slow car that misses 70% of the time and almost never scores a direct hit. Starting further away would certainly advantage mortars... but not to the same extent. |
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*Longo* Posted Jul 28, 2020, 2:51 pm |
FWIW, I think a combination of scout roll, good ole random “luck”, and a small advantage to who is defending should all be considered. |
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darthspanky Posted Jul 28, 2020, 2:52 pm |
if someone brought a very good scout say 400 skill they should have somewhat of an advantage if the other side didnt bring a scout. at least with a scout roll, even if a bad roll would encourage people to bring a skilled scout. | ||
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*goat starer* Posted Jul 28, 2020, 2:56 pm |
yep.... although i'm not sure how it would decide what a 'good' spawn is... given that people set up in very different ways. |
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FireFly Posted Jul 28, 2020, 3:35 pm |
Not saying to the same extent goat, merely saying I also find them a problem and if we're addressing one we should the other. I much prefer brawls anyway.
In a king of the hill mode it's pretty hard to win if you're setup with rear weapons. Surely a forward facing spawn should be desirable in most cases? Either way, the current randomness combined with close spawns does not feel great. An even fight could turn one sided depending on the spawn right now, if the spawn is within firing range of the chasing team they could potentially breach cars in the 2-3 turns it would take to turn around. Compromise? Chase spawns are forced further out like sam suggested whilst meeting/head-on spawns are allowed to be close like now. Make the scout roll affect it? It's a thought anyway. |
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Djihani Posted Jul 28, 2020, 8:11 pm |
Defender having the favorable position sounds sensible. | ||
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Madbooth Posted Aug 3, 2020, 7:51 am |
I agree with Firefly Starting Behind someone that close is well unfair.
Having more than 1 spawn circle would help as well but i dout that could be added 1 random spawn circle onto the map for each player. (almost like both players were ambushing each other) Make for more Thinking and I feel would make it a little more fair. (they both suddenly bump into each other out on the road as one side attacks and the other is Patroling) If the attacker has a better Scout in the event (attack could set up an ambush Easy) if the defender has a better scout (they could get the ambush) If they are both nearly equal in scout level basicly head to head or a double ambush. I dont want to be at a disadvantage trying to attack or trying to defend if i can help it. id like it to be random. Like nearly everything else about this game to an extent. |
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*sam* Posted Aug 3, 2020, 8:09 am |
One easy way of removing the punishing results from a bad spawn is to lock weapons for the first 5 turns | ||
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FireFly Posted Aug 3, 2020, 7:30 pm |
If the cool stuff like choosing direction doesn't work out/will take a while, I'll be alright with a 3-5 turn gun delay. Call it the "Oh s*it there's the enemy! Tommy quickly man the gun!!" timer. | ||
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*Longo* Posted Aug 3, 2020, 11:21 pm |
+1 |